How long is it taking you guys to charge AW 18350 cells?

[Nutdip]

I just bought 2 AW 18350s and a cheap charger. (Xtar MP1S Single slot with 3 spacers to charge the 18350.) It took 60 minutes to charge the first cell and 50 minutes to charge the second. Also, the batteries were not even warm at all when I took them out. I thought they would be warm at the very least. They were just room temp.

Does this seem normal? I guess I was expecting a couple of hours. Do the batteries come with a charge and once I run them down it may take longer?

I don't have the flashlight for which I purchased the batteries yet and I don't have a volt meter to check. Just though you all might have some averages.

Thanks.

 

[HotWire]

I have a bunch of AW 1835 cells and when new they take an hour or more to charge on any of my chargers. None of them get warm while charging.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Totally normal and yes, they come partially charged.

P.S. Get a volt meter!

 

[Nutdip]

Cool! You guys rock. Much appreciated.

 

[D2000]

Totally normal and yes, they come partially charged.

P.S. Get a volt meter!

Any good volt meters to be found online that are good value? I just picked up some 18350's myself.

 

[hoffmyster86]

something i've notised with charging lithiums is they start of taking in say 2 amps on a fast charge, then they start dropping over time, 2 amps for an hour, then 1.8 amps then 1.5 slowling dwindling untill its a 100milliamps at the end of the charge and 5 hours later its full.

is there a way of 'proper fast charging' i.e. wacking in the 2 amp for 2 hours till nearly full? or do they just blow up or die an unseamly early death.

 

[franzdom]

Look at cottonpickers chargers, it is a member here or at cpfmarketplace, his stuff is really good for the batteries and comes with a built in meter and can charge from a usb

 

[HKJ]

is there a way of 'proper fast charging' i.e. wacking in the 2 amp for 2 hours till nearly full? or do they just blow up or die an unseamly early death.

If a charger does that I will give it a bad rating in my review.
If you want fast charging, go for a charger that signals when the cells are nearly full, this can save between 30 and 60 minutes in charger time and give you more than 90% charge on the cell.

 

[hoffmyster86]

If a charger does that I will give it a bad rating in my review.
If you want fast charging, go for a charger that signals when the cells are nearly full, this can save between 30 and 60 minutes in charger time and give you more than 90% charge on the cell.

doesnt seem worth the loss in charge cycles to me.. the diference between 5 hours and 4 hours.. unless of course its a 2 hour thing instead of the 5..if you see what i mean.

 

[HKJ]

doesnt seem worth the loss in charge cycles to me.. the diference between 5 hours and 4 hours.. unless of course its a 2 hour thing instead of the 5..if you see what i mean.

It does not have a loss in charge cycles, a partial charge cycle will only count as a partial charge.
You can check my review of SC S-1 max and check the timing.

 

[Justin Case]

something i've notised with charging lithiums is they start of taking in say 2 amps on a fast charge, then they start dropping over time, 2 amps for an hour, then 1.8 amps then 1.5 slowling dwindling untill its a 100milliamps at the end of the charge and 5 hours later its full.

is there a way of 'proper fast charging' i.e. wacking in the 2 amp for 2 hours till nearly full? or do they just blow up or die an unseamly early death.

Post deleted.

 

[Justin Case]

I just bought 2 AW 18350s and a cheap charger. (Xtar MP1S Single slot with 3 spacers to charge the 18350.) It took 60 minutes to charge the first cell and 50 minutes to charge the second. Also, the batteries were not even warm at all when I took them out. I thought they would be warm at the very least. They were just room temp.

Does this seem normal? I guess I was expecting a couple of hours. Do the batteries come with a charge and once I run them down it may take longer?

I don't have the flashlight for which I purchased the batteries yet and I don't have a volt meter to check. Just though you all might have some averages.

Thanks.

Post deleted.

 

[hoffmyster86]

It does not have a loss in charge cycles, a partial charge cycle will only count as a partial charge.
You can check my review of SC S-1 max and check the timing.

ahh i see, i've been doing something similar with my B6 charger (if i get it right), i watch the current flow indicator bit to see how long it takes for 1mah to pass, at about 5-6 seconds per milliamp i'm thinkiking ffffffffffff take it off lol, its another 2 hours on a soshine 26650 4200mah to get to 1 millamp every 20 seconds..still not finished.

they seem full in the torch, 4 hours plus with a 1 amp driver, and a 1 amp draw at the battery end, (4.5 hours usualy..) the battery open circuit voltage never goes above 4.19v settles a fraction less and stays there after a few days not used.

i was originally thinking of a 2 amp charge for 2 hours, never dwindling at all..(the batteries wont take 4 amp as stated on the specs..2 amp seems good so i use that thinking more cycles over fast charging).

an after edit.. the B6 doesnt charge that much faster on fast charge over the 'auto' charge tbh...takes more in the begining but then the charge current falls off sooner and i'm still waiting hours any way for it to finish off sort of thing..which it never does.

 

[Knight_Light]

Here are my two cents.

• The ideal charge rate for lithium-ion is somewhere between .4C and 1C with .6C considered to be ideal. My opinion is that with larger capacity batteries it is closer to 1C and with smaller capacity batteries it is closer to .4C
• Now if you are willing to accept 90% capacity for your cells you can really fast charge, may be to the tune of 1.5C for the larger batteries.
• If you are charging only to 90% capacity you somewhat can assign a time value to C as being equal to 1 hour. Which means if you can accept 90% capacity in your cells you can easily charge most cells in an hour or less.
• For the people that are looking to do fast charging or creating ideal charging conditions for different various battery types I suggest they look into hobby chargers. All of the regular chargers out there at best have 3 different options for charge current, most have just 1.
• A good hobby charger set up can be done for around $120.
• If you fast charger your batteries you will lose a considerable amount of cycles from the battery. But you do get the convenience of quicker charge times. So I think it is an individual and personal preference on how you want to do this.

 

[hoffmyster86]

Trying to charge a small cell that is probably rated at about 500mAh or at best 750mAh with 2000mA is foolish and dangerous.

thats what i was thinking, i've had one exsploid in a cheepo charger and one battery cage melt down due to a single water droplet shorting on the battery and a wire..seriously a problem isnt it lol.

 

[hoffmyster86]

Here are my two cents.

• The ideal charge rate for lithium-ion is somewhere between .4C and 1C with .6C considered to be ideal. My opinion is that with larger capacity batteries it is closer to 1C and with smaller capacity batteries it is closer to .4C
• Now if you are willing to accept 90% capacity for your cells you can really fast charge, may be to the tune of 1.5C for the larger batteries.
• If you are charging only to 90% capacity you somewhat can assign a time value to C as being equal to 1 hour. Which means if you can accept 90% capacity in your cells you can easily charge most cells in an hour or less.
• For the people that are looking to do fast charging or creating ideal charging conditions for different various battery types I suggest they look into hobby chargers. All of the regular chargers out there at best have 3 different options for charge current, most have just 1.
• A good hobby charger set up can be done for around $120.
• If you fast charger your batteries you will lose a considerable amount of cycles from the battery. But you do get the convenience of quicker charge times. So I think it is an individual and personal preference on how you want to do this.

thank you.. its sinking in with the other chaps postings.

HJK.. i use a camera in similar fasion to your 'testing method' page, in particular to test my lights and drivers, over an hour your eyes adjust to light available, which in a lot of cases is dwindling, so with out distance being the check method, i.e. sat out in a feild for 4 hours watching a tree line, set up the camera and just skim through the footage to see very clearly the diference from a full battery to a discharged battery.. i like them very close to the same at both ends because for hunting purposes theres only two things to change the distance perseived, one is the battery state (eliminated with a good driver) and the other is weather condisions..(nothing i can do about the weather).

and back on track, i'm presuming there arnt charger that will hold a constant ampage untill 70-80 percent of the charge due to the lithiums favoured responce to abuse..they blow up or die!!

on those days where your in a rush 90 percent would be acceptable i think..infact tbh, it's probably not worth waiting the extra hour or more for that 10 percent unless your pot holing or caveing or some such where every little extra can save your life or...lose your life.

 

[HKJ]

Here are my two cents.

• The ideal charge rate for lithium-ion is somewhere between .4C and 1C with .6C considered to be ideal. My opinion is that with larger capacity batteries it is closer to 1C and with smaller capacity batteries it is closer to .4C

The batteries with the slowest charge rate is 2900mAh and 3100mAh Panasonic, for them the maximum rate is 0.3C (According to the short form data sheet).
1A charge rate is acceptable for all 18650, even though it is slightly to high for 2900mAh batteries.

For smaller batteries it is often acceptable to use 1C.

• Now if you are willing to accept 90% capacity for your cells you can really fast charge, may be to the tune of 1.5C for the larger batteries.

I have not seen any specification saying you can charge at higher current when only charging to 90%.

• If you are charging only to 90% capacity you somewhat can assign a time value to C as being equal to 1 hour. Which means if you can accept 90% capacity in your cells you can easily charge most cells in an hour or less.

No, with 2900mAh Panasonic it is nearly 3 hour to reach 90% capacity and then some time for the tapering charge.

• For the people that are looking to do fast charging or creating ideal charging conditions for different various battery types I suggest they look into hobby chargers. All of the regular chargers out there at best have 3 different options for charge current, most have just 1.

Hobby chargers are very versatile, also if you wish to mistreat your batteries.

• A good hobby charger set up can be done for around $120.

And a cheap one for about $30

• If you fast charger your batteries you will lose a considerable amount of cycles from the battery. But you do get the convenience of quicker charge times. So I think it is an individual and personal preference on how you want to do this.

That is correct.

 

[Knight_Light]

i'm presuming there arnt charger that will hold a constant ampage untill 70-80 percent of the charge due to the lithiums favoured responce to abuse..they blow up or die!!

Chargers that follow a cc/cv profile (most do or at least try to emulate one) will keep a constant current for most of the charge.

on those days where your in a rush 90 percent would be acceptable i think..infact tbh, it's probably not worth waiting the extra hour or more for that 10 percent unless your pot holing or caveing or some such where every little extra can save your life or...lose your life.

Fast charging is awesome. But don't forget that it's not just the 10% capacity than you lose you will also shorten the lifespan of the battery itself. So it is just a personal preference and what you are willing to tolerate in terms of losses (both capacity wise and financially).

When you charge lithium batteries you really shouldn't leave them unattended. Having said that I think it is easier to keep an eye on something for an hour then for 5 hours. So as strange as it may sound in my opinion it is actually safer to fast charge then not (and yes I know you can put them into safe containers, you should be doing this anyway).

 

[Knight_Light]

First of all let me start by saying that I enjoy a lot of your reviews and postings. And I have read your discussions on the subject matter with others in the forums and on certain things I just don't agree.

The batteries with the slowest charge rate is 2900mAh and 3100mAh Panasonic, for them the maximum rate is 0.3C (According to the short form data sheet).
1A charge rate is acceptable for all 18650, even though it is slightly to high for 2900mAh batteries.

For smaller batteries it is often acceptable to use 1C.

Those are recommendations from the manufacturer in terms of ideals. If you are willing to sacrifice battery life there is no reason why you can't charge at 1C or higher.

I have not seen any specification saying you can charge at higher current when only charging to 90%.
No, with 2900mAh Panasonic it is nearly 3 hour to reach 90% capacity and then some time for the tapering charge.

I did not mean to imply that if you are willing to charge to only 90% you can do so at a higher current. Sorry if it came across that way.

The reason it takes three hours for the Panasonic to get to 90% is because you're using .33C. if you were to use 1C it would take just over an hour.

Hobby chargers are very versatile, also if you wish to mistreat your batteries.

You are absolutely right you can definitely mistreat your batteries, but you can also prolong their life by creating better charging profiles that are specific to individual batteries and capacities. Instead of trying to fit everything into a one size fits all. Remember versatility on its own is neutral it's how you utilize it is whether it becomes positive or a negative.

And a cheap one for about $30

Remember you get what you pay for. And the $30 Chargers don't last that long. You know what I am talking about since you have some pretty expensive equipment.

And don't forget there is no such thing as a $30 hobby charger because of all the extras that you need to get. So that cheap hobby charger now becomes at least a $50 hobby charger.

 

[HKJ]

Those are recommendations from the manufacturer in terms of ideals. If you are willing to sacrifice battery life there is no reason why you can't charge at 1C or higher.

The most important reason to not charge at high rate is the risk of .
Many battery datasheets do list a standard/recommended charge rate and a fast charge rate, the short form Panasonic data sheets does only list one charge rate and calls it maximum. This might be correct or not. My guess is not, but I will not recommend using much higher charge rate without a datasheet saying it is allowed.

You are absolutely right you can definitely mistreat your batteries, but you can also prolong their life by creating better charging profiles that are specific to individual batteries and capacities. Instead of trying to fit everything into a one size fits all. Remember versatility on its own is neutral it's how you utilize it is whether it becomes positive or a negative.

I do like hobby chargers and often use them, but for daily use a fixed rate cradle charge is much easier. My most used chargers at the current time is the Xtar VP1 and the Soshine S1-max.

Remember you get what you pay for. And the $30 Chargers don't last that long. You know what I am talking about since you have some pretty expensive equipment.

I had a cheap hobby charger at it lasted a long time, but then the background light for the LCD quit.
My general opinion is that a $30 hobby charger is better than no hobby charger, it might not be precise, but you can still get a good estimate of battery capacity.

And yes, I have a thing for good equipment.

And don't forget there is no such thing as a $30 hobby charger because of all the extras that you need to get. So that cheap hobby charger now becomes at least a $50 hobby charger.

That depends on how good you are with DIY, cheap hobby chargers can usual be supplied from a car battery or a laptop power supply and you can use magnets for battery connection.

I do prefer much better than that, as can be seen on some of my photos, but it is not needed to get working solution.