Introducing an EDC 2-Cell LED Light (CAD) SPY005

[Data]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Mr Bulk

Thanks so much. You were a great help to me in the development of this light. I owe you Charlie. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif



McGizmo

The only reason I chose a face seal over a bore seal was I wanted to keep the knob to .500 in diameter. Note that the switch fits inside all that and it is .300 in diameter. As an example if you change the knob to .600 in diameter it gets very close to the bezel (I do not want the knob hanging below the bottom of the light). So to sum it up, I do not think there is room for a standard bore o-ring seal. I do show an o-ring groove cut into the body so it will stay put and not be able to squirm up and out. I did not draw the groove properly yet as it will have to blend completely into the bearing surface.

Put an o-ring groove on the outside of the knob? That is an excellent idea. Thank you. I have had several people voice concern about the grip in this knob. Before I go off and tell you what all their ideas were, I need to explain a little more about the switch I have chosen. I have lots of rotary switches laying beside me here on my desk. The two that "feel" the best are from Cole Industries and Grayhill. In testing them for feel I came to the conclusion that the .500" diameter smooth knob transmitted the right amount of torque with the Grayhill switch. Until the prototype is built we will not know for sure if the smooth surface on the knob is adequate. Your idea of an exterior o-ring groove is good and I will add it to some of the prototypes. Thanks Don.

Yes there is room for a couple 4-40 holes in that part of the body to secure a pocket clip. I have been putting off the decision to add a pocket clip until I find out if it is something everybody would want or not. So please speak up people! I love having pocket clips on my flashlights to keep them from rolling off the table but I do not have that problem with this light! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for the 6 watts going into a K2 in this light, I know it will get hot fast! When it does, turn it down. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I love the McR-20, we will have to talk. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


Cheers
Dave

 

[HarryN]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

You are correct, the best ones are the grayhill switches.

 

[diggdug13]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

very inovative light, it looks like it's gonna be a BIG hit here and if you decide to market it, it looks like it would do well in that endeavor aswell.

doug

 

[McGizmo]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Cool Dave!
Now that you have gone "public", I am much more comfortable with your design and discussion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Have you looked at metric O-rings as well as the standards? There are quite a few sizes and in 1 mm as well as 1.5 mm cross section.

As for a clip, I think that light is begging for one! Bezel down is my vote but those "hat boys" will want it the other way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Man, if I had access to equipment like you do, I would go for a tandem rig but I'd put two LED's and twin head lights on there and go for more lumens for less power! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif A couple 18 mm reflectors at right angle to the battery tube and a switch at top between the light engines........... :dream: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway, again, very novel and I look forward to standing in line for one! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[andrewwynn]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

love the light.. Don has a good point about the o-ring on the dial.. i'd find a switch that has the o-ring built in or seal around the shaft.. the edge seal looks like trouble. I second the concept of a clip possibility as well... i would definitely want one of these lights in my growing collection.

Oh.. i would design the driver to be able to output 1500 max but stick to something close to design spec for the LED used.. i.e. 1000-1100 for Lux3 and 1500-1600 for K2.

I reallly really like Don's reflectors.

-awr

 

[xochi]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Data,
If that design could carry a wallet, it would be the one Samuel L. Jackson carried in "Pulp Fiction". Very nice and innovative.

As far as price is concerned, it's way out of my range but I had dirt for dinner /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif . Given all that light will involve I think it's pretty reasonable and I think that it's a great idea to create something that cool for cpf'ers and at the same time keep the guys in your shop busy.

I agree with Andrew about sticking to spec for LED.

Personally, I love pocketclips for lights and they are absolutely essential for anyone who does work with tools while on ladders. Bezel up is nice for hat use which really enhances a lights usability but this light may be too heavy for that to be practical. If so , I vote for bezel down since my Arc4 really took many hits to the lens and bezel while clip carried. It might also be possible to design a rail for the clip to slide into and lock. The rail is attached to the light and the clip slides into the rail in whatever direction the user chooses for the situation. The rail could also be used for other attachments like the swivel Don is so fond of or a clamp mount. Sure, this light is pretty damn complex to make already so forget all that and just make a simple and effective bezel down clip. Or don't since I'm making suggestions and can't even buy one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif .

The 20 mm aleph reflector is the 'Kind'. Best reflector I've had the pleasure to EDC ( Don when will the HDS retrofit be available ? (this hookah sure smokes smooth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/duh2.gif)).

 

[karlthev]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

A great design it would appear! I'll be following this one "fer shur"!!

Karl

 

[StoneDog]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Very nice light! While a pocket clip would be nice, some provision for a simple lanyard would be nice. Nothing fancy, just something like one might find on a small mobile flip-phone.

Jon

 

[Christoph]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Aww man I think I just wet my self.
I will have to get a second job thats all there is to it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

 

[Data]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

HarryN

Made in the USA, every bit of it. . .almost. . .well not really! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif My machine shop is in Pennsylvania and Wayne's shop is in California. This is as close to Made in the USA as you can get. But really no closer than any of these great modders lights here on CPF.

You bring up an important point, maybe the light should say "Made in the USA" on it.



greg_in_Canada

Wayne tells me that when you add the efficiency of the converter to the system the battery current will be close to the LED current. When you pull 1500mA from a CR123 they really drop. I will pass on saying more about this and defer the question to Wayne and others who know more about it than I.


diggdug13

Thanks.


McGizmo

I will have to look more at the metric o-ring sizes. It is funny you said this because I did look at them and did not think there was a very good selection in MSC. Please point me in the right direction.

That twin bezel light design you are talking about sounds great and it sounds somewhat like andrewwynn's project. And speaking of Andrew . . .


andrewwynn

Without your input early on I wouldn't be anywhere. I mean it, I can't thank you enough. You are a gentleman and a scholar. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

That knob is not connected to a shaft on the Grayhill rotary switch! The Grayhill rotary switch is of the "screwdriver actuated" type, it has no external shaft! The cool part of this design is that the knob is attached to the body from the inside of the body. This has some very important advantages. First the knob is structurally mounted very firm. If the light is dropped on the knob no force is imparted into the delicate switch internals. Secondly, if the user applies high torque on the knob the knob itself has a travel limit built into its underside that interfaces with the body. So no high level of torque can be transmitted to the delicate switch internals. Don't get me wrong, this switch is of the finest quality available, it is mil speced and will last for years and years of use in my light. It's just that it is important to isolate these delicate mechanical devices. Finally, this knob design is sealed to the elements. Note that the inside bore of the knob is the bearing surface!!! The shaft on the knob is only used to hold the snap-ring and therefore axially secure the knob to the body. That o-ring keeps all the contamination out of the bearing surface. It has to be there for this design to be robust. To ensure the o-ring stays in place I will put a sufficient groove in the body for it to fit into.

Yes, Don's reflectors are the bomb. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

BTW I agree completely with your assessment on the converter output. Thanks again for your help and kind comments.


Cheers
Dave

 

[drizzle]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Excellent work Dave! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

I love the idea of the knob control rather than having to deal with multiple pushes of buttons, etc. Really like the direct control the knob gives you. Also looks like it should be pretty easy to adjust one handed while using it.

It's probably out of my price range but it looks like a light I want and I may just splurge. (Hmm...December 2005...Christmas... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

 

[Data]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

xochi

A rail for the clip is an interesting idea. It may also be possible to design the body so a clip can be put on either way or two different clips that attach to the same point. You guys will come up with something. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


karlthev

thanks.


StoneDog

A simple modest lanyard is in the works too.


Christoph

LOL, that just means you have room for more! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drunk.gif



Cheers
Dave

 

[McGizmo]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Dave,
Please send me an e-mail re; the O-rings. If I am getting the right picture here, your knob seal will need some compression for function this force will be contered and held by the snap ring inside and it will essentially become a thrust washer with a bearing load. This will provide resistance against rotation of the knob. It seems that you have good control over your dimensions and tolerances but I am still leary of this seal and its function. If I understand the mating of the knob to the pot, you have some on axis play which would allow the knob to move forward and aft to some extent. A bore seal just inside the lip of the knob would protect your bearing surface and I believe be easier to control in production?!?! I admit that I am no engineer so I may be totally off base!

 

[PEU]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Comment:

there seems to be to little material in the oring placeholder on the outside part of the case where it meets with the reflector.

What size are you using? Standard 1.78mm section? as Don said, you should try 1 or 1.5mm section ones /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good to hear you have a vertical machining center, the pieces look complex.

I like it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif , but the price is out of my league /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

EDIT:

also seeing this pic:

I can see some parts that I guess will be threaded that there is not enough material to hold the threads.


Pablo

 

[Data]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

McGizmo

You are perfectly on base with that assessment. I will have to set the preload on the o-ring so the torque needed to overcome the static and dynamic friction is in the desired range. It may require a spring washer to get it right without throwing the tolerance through the roof but I left plenty of room in there for that.

I enjoy this kind of engineering work. Please keep the questions coming. I have put many days of engineering work into this knob. I did not think I would be quizzed on it in the very first day or I would have put more detail in the introduction post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I will send you my email address. Thanks for everything Don.


PEU

From what you can see on my model you are correct. However that o-ring is not compressed. I just took the simple way out of modeling the o-ring in its natural state and stuck it in there. In my CAD model presentation I told the graphics to show the o-ring over top of the aluminum. So in my CAD model there is really much more aluminum there than you can see.

WOW, what a good eye all of you have for engineering drawings.

I have an enclosed 4-axis vertical machining center with a 20-tool changer. It is on an Ethernet LAN with all my work computers. I do my CAD/CAM work on my workstation and walk over to the mill and it is ready to run. It can handle g-code files of up to 16MB. My machine shop is in the basement of my home with my office too. I also have great connections to my best friends shop and I can tell you for sure he will be helping me make these lights.

That o-ring you are looking at on the bezel is an AS568A dash number 017 with a 1/16" cross section. McGizmo is going to help me with the other o-ring sizes too but I welcome your help as well.


Cheers
Dave

 

[PEU]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Dave, you could get 1mm orings that will allow to leave more material there. And from my experience if the oring is for a moving part calculate for 10 to 20% compression, closer to 10% if possible or the part will be difficult to turn. If its going to be fixed you can go a little over 20% but not much more.

Read the Parker o-rings data sheets, they give plenty of good advise on orings and orings placeholders.

If you can, to review cad drawings, draw the overlapped parts that will be threaded /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I dont feel comfortable with less than 0.7mm of pure wall on parts that will hold threads or may have to sustain forces.

Keep the good work

And yes, machine envy all over /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Pablo

 

[Data]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

I agree on the 07mm (.03") minimum thickness. I think I kept it to no thinner than .035", I am not sure though, I will check.


Cheers
Dave

 

[Amorphous]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Data,

Awesome light! 2005 seems to be the year of innovation in exterior light design.

Love the rotary knob in your light. I am also going to suggest the following detailed enhancements:

1) Momentary on/off on the same rotary knob. (Trigger to turn on like a pistol on a preset brightness, and rotary to turn on for long duration.)

2) Magnetic on/off instead of the direct/mechanical utilizing the same rotary knob. (This is very cool for superior seal again water, dirt.. and reduce mechanical rotary wear )

3) Inductance/cradle charging. no need to take out battery every other day to recharge, and reduce wear on the battery compartment/threads.

4) Belt clip

5) Secondary LED ( UV or Blue or Red ) for special situations like scorpion hunting, emergency, and self proclaim forensic detective.

Over all, this is another sagacious design, and would like to line up for one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ray

 

[Darell]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

Thanks for the effort here, Dave. Lots to soak up, and lots of great input by others. I just know I'm going to repeat what others have said, but I'll say what I think anyway, and pretend that they're still my unique ides. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm surprised that I missed this thread for so long. I can tell already that I'm going to come off as a snob and know-it-all here. NOT the case! I'm just gonna tell you what comes to mind - just consider it as my input that is worth every penny you're paying for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

Before anything else: I'm now REALLY looking forward to meeting you at the Ghost Mt. Get-together! You've got to bring *something* for show-and-tell!

My first thought when seeing this, is Yahoo! I'm a fan of the side-by-side design for sure. If the X200 is any indication (duh) then these lights seem and feel to be as small as 1x123 lights, but with twice the battery. And speaking of twice the battery - I see NO reason to go with 2x123 in parallel. Keep the V high (series), and you've got an easier time of supplying what the emitter needs down to the end of battery life. But as you already know - Wayne's the guy for answers there that may actually make sense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mounting: This thing BEGS to be used as a bicycle light! Multiple levels are fantastic on a bike. Sometimes I just need enough light to be seen in a urban environment, and somtimes I need to see what's in front of me - so an adjustable light like this would be the bomb. There's no doubt that we can figure out some way to mounting this after the fact.. but man, it would sure be nice to have *something* on there to make it easier. Some place to add a 1/4-20 tapped hole would be dreamy. Of course I don't actually SEE a place for something that huge, so let's move on! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif A clip that can be mounted fore or aft would be somewhat unique, and would make everybody happy - the hat guys and the... uh... *normal* guys who like bezel-down carry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif So what it comes down to is basically what Don said - some tapped holes (maybe three) in the web on one side. Probably 4-40. With those holes, a clip can be mounted up or down, and *something* can be added for bicycle mount. Some folks have issues with ugly, open holes in a light, but that is easily solved by providing some pretty screws (small pan-heads? Chromed?) to fill the holes if they are not used. My choice, if only one clip position is provided, is bezel down (if that weren't obvious).

Knob: I do have a concern about accidental discharge. But that's only because I have not held the switch in my hands. May not be an issue, but it was one of the first things I thought of when I viewed the pictures and before I read the prose. I would like to see a bit more grip on the knob. An o-ring is one idea that is user-selectable (good!) another, of course, is to mill some flutes in it. If the knob is stiff enough so it won't spin on accidentally in the pocket, I'm a bit concerned about being ABLE to easily turn it on if my hands are wet or slippery.

Butt end: I'm a big fan of butt-standing. I use lights as lanterns (ceiling bounce) more often than most folks, I guess. It looks like the current design will allow this, but those rear radius's are pretty fat! Being sure that it was stable on the butt end would be a consideration for me.

Levels: Less is more in my book. Not a huge difference from your plan, but I think that five is more than sufficient. Three would likely be great - I've gone with five before because it is easy to justify: 1: as low as possible; 3: medium; 5: as high as possible. Levels 2 and 4 are "medium low" and "medium high." In practice, that has worked out really well for me. More levels just get in the way, in my experience. And on this same subject - even with the new emitters coming out, I REALLY don't think I'd want to power it beyond 1A. Not in this size of light.

I have a few other thoughts (I'll bring them up as soon as somebody else posts them first /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif), but I'm getting tired of typing, and I've already bored you here I'm sure.

Oh... thanks for putting the o-ring on the correct side of the lens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[keithhr]

Re: Introducing an EDC 2-Cell Light Feeler(CAD) SP

very nice concept, batteries side by side is perfect, more juice,less length, sounds great, because smaller is always better. The cpf saying of the best light is one that you carry with you is pretty much right on. Nice work!!!