LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

People on these forums scared me off from going for a Lenser .........

Maybe with some more positive reviews from people who buy Lensers and tell us how they're getting on with them down the line they might re-assure people enough to go for them.

Ok, here's something from "down the line".

If I had read the stuff on this forum before I'd bought my LedLenser P7 I'd have probably been scared off too. Thank god I wasn't cos I bought one over a year ago, wore it every day for a year and found it to be a wonderful, versatile light (I work outdoors mostly).

The P7 may not have appeared to be as good as a "regulated" torch when one looked at it on paper but in real world use for me it was just perfect having what I saw as decent runtime at decent brightness on the alkalines I ran it on. Its "unregulated-ness" caused me no problems at all with it running generally at the low setting set to "spot" (there was plenty of light from that) with only maybe a sixth of its time on high or "momentary turbo". Plenty of light for a plenty long time for me.

I now have "regulated" AA torches and can't see any difference in my general use on my alkalines except that I can't see as far on high and there's a more sudden jump from useable bright down to low as the batteries begin to fade whereas the LedLenser was a nice slow gradual decline that gave ages of notice.

My P7 survived a few drops onto concrete with no stoppages. It's finish is a bit battered but it never once let me down, never even flickered and I can't say that for my current Fenixes or Nitecore. I don't take torches swimming with me so the P7's un-dunkability wasn't an issue for me and I had it out in the rain plenty of times with no problems.

The only reason why I no longer carry it every day is that I don't get AAA's for free anymore so I wanted to move to an AA torch/es since I still get those size batteries free. Frankly, from a usage point of view I preferred my P7 over my current daily use Fenix TK20 and Nitecore D10. It's a personal thing I know, but the P7 is also still the best size torch for my hands that I've ever held. I have now retired it to my bedside table for when i need to go outside from bed in the night so it still gets a little use cos I just can't let it go altogether.

LedLEnser P7 was almost perfect for me. If it had been an AA machine then it would be my daily use torch forever.

 

[DM51]

I have missed this completely brfore now - a whole year has gone by. Very good to see a good and positive review of this light. Nice work!

Moving to the Reviews section.

 

[BlueBeam22]

Very nice review. Aside from the fact that the Husky 2D 4W generates a higher lux rating than the P7, how do they visibly compare in throw when you shine them at a target like a tree or building a few hundred feet away (P7 at tightest focus)?

 

[pulstar]

It's in our nature that we always want to improve existing things, make them better and so on. Eventually there will be better lights even we currently own the best.

If you always wait for something better, you miss a lot and life goes by...

As some poet said: Carpe diem:twothumbs, and get the flashlight you want. But i assure you, it won't be your last...

 

[Turbo DV8]

I guess seeing people saying things like; "you'll be happy with it for a few months and then want something better" along with other posts about quality concerns made me think I should perhaps go with a more mainstream/premium brand.

Yes, the same can be said about any light bought by a flashaholic! Even the member who owned that huge arc lamp spotlight with diesel genrator on the back of a trailer sold it and "moved on," for Christ's sake! If you don't always want a "better" flashlight, perhaps you have achieved recovery and no longer need the enabling, er ... support of other CPF members!

Aside from the fact that the Husky 2D 4W generates a higher lux rating than the P7, how do they visibly compare in throw when you shine them at a target like a tree or building a few hundred feet away (P7 at tightest focus)?

I just bought my P7 two days ago. I haven't had a chance to tear into it yet. I have the Husky. I will let you know how they compare. I also have the Led Lenser Hokus Focus Cree (7438), similar to the P7, but rated at 105 lumens instead of 200. The Husky has a little more throw and ceiling bounce than the Hokus Focus. Therefore, the P7 should be interesting to compare. But even if the Husky has more throw, it's spot is even tighter than that which the P7/Hokus Focus delivers, and has enough green tint and rings to make an old-growth redwood tree envious. As impressive as the Husky throw is, that is it's only claim to fame. Otherwise, I find mine quite unused.

Build quality of the newer lensers is improving with every month.

The best thing LED Lenser has done to improve reliability was source better switches and go to gold plating on flat, redundant contacts. Huge improvement, but sad that the stigma of LL's prior quality may stay with them a good long while. When hard-earned money buys them crap, people remember that.

Some say that the lack of regulation kills every interest for the light in them.

Even though LL quality is leaps and bounds better now, the lack of regulation is, as you mention, the absolute deal-killer for so many. I have regulated lights. They have their pluses and minuses. Using NiMH in your regulated light, the pluses fade away a bit. As someone mentioned, due to the incredible nature of the prism lens, even on alkalines the light is absolutely useable even as the voltage diminishes. The difference is noted upon renewal of the cells, or in the final 9/10ths of distance throw. Sometimes I sense those who dismiss a light forthright due to lack of regulation simply cannot stand to see a non-flat curve on an output chart, regardless of how that translates to real-world perception in use.

I'm all for regulation, and at the price LL continues to charge for lights now built in China, they could certainly offer it. But consider that every solder joint and component introduces more potential for failure. With that said, considering how many people dismiss LL due to lack of regulation, imagine the market that would open up to LL if they did offer regulation. They have the quality issue solved now. If they also offered regulation at prices equivalent to what they charge now, (and they could if they wanted), and especially if they dumped the AAA format in their Cree lights, then watch out lighting world, because LL would finally have totally unique lights that even the current LL poo-pooers would sit up and take notice of!

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

imagine the market that would open up to LL if they did offer regulation.

I have to say that my personal view is somewhat different (though I can only speak of what things are like in my area of Australia). Where I live, of all my friends, colleagues and family who own LED torches, none of them have ever heard of torch regulation or know of its effects (nor had I until I came here looking for info on a Fenix). None of them delve that deep into the workings of their torches. They, like me, made their decisions to buy based on price, brightness (or range), perceived feel of quality and decent runtime over an incadescent.

To someone like me, decent runtime isn't how long it takes to get to 50% brightness in one go. It's how long the torch will remain bright enough to do the jobs I need it to do when used in dribs and drabs over the course of a week or two. In my case, I found myself changing my P7's batteries every three or so weeks and that runtime was fine by me, way better than my incandescent maglite and a third of the size and perfect to carry (too big to be easily dropped or lost and small enough that it didn't interfere with my activity).

I have a fair few friends across some interesting occupations and in terms of the spectrum of user that I personally know who use LED torches, it includes law enforcement officers, people who search gaols for a living, customs officers searching ships (one of my old jobs before I retired, what fun), police rescue, farmers, mechanics, forestry commission rangers, electricians etc etc etc and plenty of ordinary people who like a torch on the shelf for when the power goes out. Most of the people I know in those roles would not know if their equipment has regulated output or not and a great many would use alkalines.

I don't know anyone in real life in Australia (as oposed to internet people in those fields I might meet here) in any of those fields who has tested the brightness of their torches by doing anything other than shining it at a tree or wall or to test range by shining down into a long paddock or street. The torch either stays bright enough to do the job at hand often enough or for long enough or it doesn't.

I'm not saying that just because I don't know them, that there aren't people out here concerned with regulation and "flat lines", just that they constitute a much smaller proportion of the buying market here than those who just want a bright, far reaching, solid looking torch. It's no acccident I'm sure, that the LedLenser torches look very much like Maglites and Maglites have a good reputation for quality in Australia so LedLenser might be helping themselves to a little ride on the back of those that paved the way to quality light.

Certainly LedLenser is gaining traction in the Australian hunting market because our largest shooting organisation (the SSAA) has taken them on board and is now selling LedLEnser P7 torches with SSAA branding on the sides. No-one has ever mentioned publicly in any of the SSAA publications whether the P7's are regulated or not.

I've gone a very long way about making a simple point but to get to the crux of what I am on about, what I'm saying is that in my experience at least, for the average "un-enlightened" buyer off the street (and I consider myself a permanent member of that group) regulation is a non event and having it would not alter LedLenser's marketing position in Australia by much because the thing holding LedLenser back in Australia is actually the price.

When I say the price is holding them back, I don't mean the price in terms of what technology you get for your money.

I mean the actual price level, about a hundred and ten aussie dollars here for P7. A hundred and ten bucks is considered an awful lot to pay for any torch, especially when one could get a 3 or 4 cell maglite for half that or can buy those little eight led 3xaaa torches at the auto place for eleven bucks.

If the P7 price was dropped to around fifty bucks it would sell like hotcakes in Australia, regulation or no regulation. It would be even better if they could get it to run on AA's cos AAA's are more expensive out here.

 

[Turbo DV8]

That is a very thoughtful take on the topic. I can follow the reasoning easily and agree with essentially all of it. You did mention the steep price of LED Lenser. Please don't take the following as an insult. One angle to look at this is that LED Lenser is essentially cashing in on the ignorance of the masses, as you call them, by charging a premium price for an unregulated flashlight. I say "ignorant" because, as you said, the majority have no clue about regulation or it's benefits. It is ironic that the masses, the people most likely to use alkaline batteries, but are ignorant of regulation, are also the ones who stand to benefit the most from regulation! If your theory is correct that Coast makes unregulated lights because 99 out of 100 users wouldn't know the difference, and the masses will pay the steep price for it regardless, why should Coast add regulation? In that case, the small percentage who value regulation are being cheated out of a great light due to the ignorance of the masses. But it is not only those few who are being cheated.

You lamented the over-pricing of LED Lenser. If those unaware of regulation's benefits were enlightened, there is no way LED Lenser could continue to get away with selling unregulated lights at their prices when people see that for the same price or less, they can get a nice regulated light. Either Coast would have to step up to the new competitiveness and offer regulation in their lights, or they would have to lower their price. Period.

Until recently, Coast manufactured it's lights in Germany. Now they are manufactured in China, the price remains as high, and there is no reason for it other than Coast's lazy greed feeding on the ignorant masses. When they shifted production to China, they could have afforded to add a simple regulation circuit and still come out ahead, in addition to winning the added business of that small percentage which values regulation, not just LED Lenser's prism optics. If the masses would never notice or care, it wouldn't matter because not only did Coast's costs decline when they shifted production to China, Coast would also be attracting new customers who have been avoiding their product over LED Lenser's refusal to include a $3 regulation circuit. But LED Lenser finds it easier to quantify that extra $3 in their pocket than to anticipate the potential benefits of attracting a new segment of the market.

I think, in the end, LED Lenser is strangling itself with it's shortsightedness. Those who value regulation avoid LED Lenser, and many who haven't a clue about it also avoid them because they are over-priced, regardless.

I finally opened the P7 tonight and played with it, my Hokus Focus Cree, and the Husky 4 watt. I have many thoughts, and will post on them soon.

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

It is ironic that the masses, the people most likely to use alkaline batteries, but are ignorant of regulation, are also the ones who stand to benefit the most from regulation!

Without discounting anything else of what you said above, since it all sounds quite reasonable to me, I do need some help understanding the idea behind what you say in the quoted bit.

I'm not au fait with regulation at all though I do now have some supposedly regulated torches (Fenix L1D, TK20 and Nitecore D10 R2) but I did read on here a while back that the symptom of non regulation of a LedLenser manifests itself in the fact that the torch loses brightness from the moment it's first switched on with new batteries, a process that continues on a slippery slope (as opposed to a flat horizontal line) until the battery runs out. I assume what I read was correct since that's how I would expect such a torch to behave.

My difficulty comes about when I try to understand a regualted torch's behaviour and I look in review threads at the runtime graphs for a number of AA and 2xAA regulated torches running at max on alkalines and the graphs seem to me to indicate the same symptoms, ie a long decline in brightness starting pretty much immediately the torch is first switched on, not the flat lines like most of the same torches show when run at max on NiMH etc.

Do I read this right or am I approaching the graphs from the wrong angle? If I am reading them right then how do those differ from a P7 in operation (I've never seen a runtime graph for a P7 on alkalines, though I'd like to) and is regulation therefore something that's only seen operating fully when a torch is operated on NiMH or Lithiums?

 

[HKJ]

My difficulty comes about when I try to understand a regualted torch's behaviour and I look in review threads at the runtime graphs for a number of AA and 2xAA regulated torches running at max on alkalines and the graphs seem to me to indicate the same symptoms, ie a long decline in brightness starting pretty much immediately the torch is first switched on, not the flat lines like most of the same torches show when run at max on NiMH etc.

Not all lights are regulated at low voltages, many 1xAA lights try to extract as much power as possible and because alkaline has a declining maximum power output, the runtime curve will look like a unregulated light.
I often plot these voltage/current/light curves to see how the regulation work.

 

[StingKing]

Good Thread, Just letting you guys know that led lenser has just released the L7 its part of the Lightweight series of lights. Its a polycarbonate version of the P7, Runs on 3 AAA's Has 105 lumens and has the twist focus instead of the slide. Selling For $65.00 AUD,

 

[Turbo DV8]

Good Thread, Just letting you guys know that led lenser has just released the L7 its part of the Lightweight series of lights. Its a polycarbonate version of the P7, Runs on 3 AAA's Has 105 lumens and has the twist focus instead of the slide. Selling For $65.00 AUD,

At 105 lumens with twist focus, it sounds more like it is based on the Hokus Focus (7438), especially if it runs on three AAA cells.

 

[Turbo DV8]

Without discounting anything else of what you said above, since it all sounds quite reasonable to me, I do need some help understanding the idea behind what you say in the quoted bit.

First, what HKJ states is true. Not all regulation is equal. There is semi-regulated, and so forth. What I meant above was, alkalines discharge at a fairly constant downward slope, so regulation would compensate for this. For those who use NiMH, regulation is much less important, since the nature of NiMH discharge is flatter and simulates the output of a regulator. Hence, alkaline users would stand the most to benefit from regulation.

 

[Turbo DV8]

After paying with the P7, I did not like the included holster. I hate any holster with expansion panels. In addition to being hard to insert, if my holster has a snap or velcro lid, I do not need a death grip on the sides. In the case of the P7, every time I insert and removed the light it would defocus and focus the light. It's not the end of the world, but why induce unnecessary wear and tear every time the light is used?

Two years ago I purchased a variety of flashlight holsters from Deal Extreme, just to have around. I dug one out that I never used, and it just happens to fit the P7 perfectly, and it's dirt cheap with free shipping! Did I say cheap? I meant inexpensive, for there is nothing low quality about this holster. It is sturdier than the LED Lenser holster. It has a flap with velcro and two-position snap. A snap and velcro on the belt loop. The belt loop goes through a D-ring and is cinched back on the velcro and then snapped. Very surdy. I should stress how surprisingly sturdy the entire holsgter is, considering it is from DX. If you own a P7 and are lukewarm about the included holster, you won't regret this holster with flap. It's only $3.34, or $6.14 for two.

DX SKU #1152:

DX SKU #1375:

This one fits my Hokus Focus (7438) perfectly, and it's only $1.79 for one and $2.74 for two, free shipping:

SKU # 807:

SKU #1374:

[links removed - DM51]http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1374

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

I still have my P7's holster on my desk after a year unused. It seems to be a very very well made holster, lovely stitching, covered edges and strong elastic. The elastic seems strong enough to me that it doesn't need the flip top to hold the torch in. Anyway, it's still there after a year cos it's far too stiff and bulky for me to use. I remember the P5 I gave as a gift had a similarly strong and seemingly oversized holster.

Personally, I'd rather see them lower the price of the torch and use a cheap holster or even make the holster an optional extra. In fact, I'd really prefer a clip.

As for focusing and defocusing the torch when putting it in, well, I found that to be a problem pretty much no matter how or where I stowed it and just had to get used to pulling the head forward just about every time I used the torch. It's nice to be able to change focus with the same hand that's holding the torch but I'd happily give up that feature as a swap for a 3/4 turn arrangement instead so that the torch would hold the focus as set no matter how it was handled.

 

[Turbo DV8]

As for focusing and defocusing the torch when putting it in, well, I found that to be a problem pretty much no matter how or where I stowed it and just had to get used to pulling the head forward just about every time I used the torch.

Of course I just had to forget to mention the best part about the DX holster, which is why I posted the information! The holster is about the same size as the LL holster, except since the sides are not elastic, the light slips in perfectly, with just enough space so the light does not lose it's focus at all, but there is no side-to-side slop. It's like the holster was made for the light! It is at least as bulky as the LL holster, though, maybe a few millimeters longer, so if you thought the LL holster was too big, you might not like it. I am on the fence about having a flap. Sometimes it's nice to have that security, and to protect the head, other times it is an annoyance. What I really don't like are holsters with no bottom end to protect the ***-end of the light. So, the second set of holsters I linked for the Hokus Focus has it's pluses and minuses. Open ended, but has a flap, wtih velcro and button tab. I guess it's all in one's preference.

What I do miss is LED Lenser's holsters which had a large, beautiful LED Lenser logo emroidered directly on the nylon. Now it is just a small, cheap piece of rubber/plastic with their logo, stitched onto the nylon. Really tacky, compared to before.

 

[Turbo DV8]

Sorry for the delay. So, here's my take on the P7 vs. the 7438 Hokus Focus Cree. Right off the bat, I'm going to have to get used to this two-stage switch on the P7! The low is so low, when in flood mode, I am sure I will leave it on low by accident after believing I have turned it off from high. I think I would have preferred the old style switch ... low-high-off. There's no way to avoind getting blasted with "Turbo" mode, since every press of the switch blasts you, even just to turn off from low.

All my playing was performed with Eneloop's. The real surprise is that the P7 has no more throw than the 7438 Hokus Focus. In a ceiling bounce test, the output of the P7 is noticeably brighter than the 7438. So where does it go? The answer is that the P7 has about 50% more spill than the Hokus Focus. It is nice to have equal throw with more spill added, but one has to wonder how can two lights with the same Cree emitter and prism optic differ so greatly in ability to collimate the beam? The flood beam is as expected... the truly unique, smooth LED Lenser "wall of light!" The low truly is very low, which I find perfect in flood mode for close-up work, and even reading without obliterating night vision. The tint of the P7 is quite a bit cooler than the Hokus Focus Cree. The three Hokus Focus Cree's I have tried had very uniform tints, all a bit on the warm side. The two P7's I tried were both cooler, and had noticeably different tint between the two.

The push-pull focusing is very nice, compared to the four full turns of the head required on the 7438 Cree. But I would prefer the pre-Cree 7438 twist focusing, which only required 1/2 turn of the head to go from spot to flood. The P7 slide mechanism can experience "stiction" ... when you want to refocus only a small amount, it overcomes the stiction and jumps beyond the desired setting. It's not a huge deal, but you don't have that problem with the twisty. Furthermore, the slide focus isn't truly "one-handed" in actual use. When you hold the light in your palm in it's tactical position (thumb on switch) you still have to reach with your other hadn to slide the head. Sure, you can hold the light "Maglite" style and use your thumb/index finger to slide the head, but then you'd need to either flip the light around or use your other hand to turn the light on/off. The pre-Cree 7438, 1/2-turn twist head was the way to go, but it looks like with the newer Cree-based LL lights, they've abandoned the 1/2 turn twisty entirely, so I'd best just let it go.

One sample of P7 has a intermittent glitch in the switch. Initially, about 1 try out of 10, when in low mode if you did a half-press to get to "Turbo" mode, instead of constant Turbo mode, it would just flash once quickly then return to low. When it was acting up, if you could get it to do it once, you could get it to do it repeated times. Then suddenly it would act normal, repeatedly. Over the course of an evening's play, the problem manifest itself decreasingly, until this evening I have not been able to get it to act up once. Who knows? Maybe it has cleared itself up forever. In any case, this one will be going back, as the switch action seems rougher than the other. So much for my praising LL for it's better switches!

Someone asked to compare the P7 to the Home Depot 4 watt Husky. P7 wins in ceiling bounce, but Husky heartily wins in throw deparment. But the Husky beam is narrower than even the Hokus Focus tight beam, to the point of being almost useless. Yes, there is such a thing as too-tight a beam! Using the Husky is like trying to pick out a certain star in the sky while looking through a straw.

I will add thoughts and omissions as they come to me.

 

[BlueBeam22]

Turbo DV8, thank you very much for posting about how the P7 and Husky 4W compare in throw. :thumbsup: Also, that is very interesting to hear about how the P7 does not out throw the Hokus Focus.

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

The low is so low, when in flood mode, I am sure I will leave it on low by accident after believing I have turned it off from high.

Even after a year of use I still did that, especially if I'd used the torch in daytime and I was in a hurry. Without a reflector it's a bit harder to look at the torch and see that it's on in daytime.

The P7 slide mechanism can experience "stiction" ... when you want to refocus only a small amount, it overcomes the stiction and jumps beyond the desired setting.

in my case even after a year that was not something that went away with age and daily use either. If you slide it back and forth once its then very easy to move it a small amount but if you let it sit for a while it seems to become just a tiny bit stuck at the last position. In the end I decided to view it as a bonus feautre that kept the light at the last focus setting. I also found that over time I only ever used either full spot or full flood and nothing in between so it didn't cause a problem.

One sample of P7 has a intermittent glitch in the switch. Initially, about 1 try out of 10, when in low mode if you did a half-press to get to "Turbo" mode, instead of constant Turbo mode, it would just flash once quickly then return to low. When it was acting up, if you could get it to do it once, you could get it to do it repeated times. Then suddenly it would act normal, repeatedly. Over the course of an evening's play, the problem manifest itself decreasingly, until this evening I have not been able to get it to act up once. Who knows? Maybe it has cleared itself up forever.

I think I remember reading somewhere that this happens with P5's and the recommended fix was to fast activate the switch about a fifty times and it went away for ever, maybe it's the same with P7's. Shouldn't be necessary though on an expensive torch.

 

[Turbo DV8]

Uh-oh. Now I did it. I was shopping today, minding my own business, and a P14 must have just jumped into the cart with the other items when I was not looking, because when I got home, there it was! I haven't opened it. Know any links to good P14 reviews? I'm on dial-up here, and searches are s-l-o-w since CPF went beta a few months ago, so any head-up on a good P14 review would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

I always wanted to try replacing my P7 with one of those but from what I can tell from various pics they are pretty much a short version of the P17 in size so I wouldn't be able to pocket it and I have a p17 anyway.

Here's a link to a P14 review I foudn on here.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213692