LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

[Turbo DV8]

I was playing with my P14, shining it on a wall on spot, rotating it, when I noticed the spot get slightly defocused on one side. Hmmm... I did it again. It popped into focus and slightly out as I rotated it. I shook the light, and could hear the prism reflector rattle around. I checked the head, and it was as tight as I could get it. A while later it seemed to lock into place, but later on became unlocked and rattled again. I picked up two more at Fry's. I have no reservation in tearing into multiple packages of these and returning them just as quickly, as for $80 I expect a perfect light, not a baby rattle. I have not opened the second two yet. Also, when going from flood to spot, the first one also overshot the optimum position for maximum throw, by just a small margin. It wasn't enough to detract from it's usefull throw at all, simply that the beam would noticeably enlarge just a tiny bit that last millimeter of head extension. Anyody else's P14 do this? None of the P7 did this. However, my P7's don't have as tight a spot as the 7438 Hokus Focus and the P14, so it is titilating to consider that perhaps the P7's are slightly out of whack the opposite way, meaning the heads don't move quite far enough outward, hence the relative lack of spot and more spill. But that can't be proved or disproved.

It's a shame, because I think right about the same time LED Lenser got the design and parts quality "right," they shifted production to China and may have partially negated, in poorer construction assembly, what they gained in design improvements. Two steps forward and one step back? "Designed in Germany" is only good to a certain point when the units are constructed by workers with guns pointed at their heads to meet a quota. OK, maybe that's not entirely fair these days, but you get my point. Politics may change, but work ethics and practices/habits engrained in laborer's minds don't erase overnight with the shift in political winds.

I had a chance to take the P14 and P7 out to Farwell railroad trestle in Niles Canyon last night for some fun comparisons. It seems the P14 does throw further, only due to it's tighter spot, but the increase in usefulness wasn't fully appreciated, as there was a high moisture content in the air which halted observation of throw differences beyond a certain distance. In drier air with less moisture for the beam to reflect off of, the P14 would have a clear advantage to the P7. I find the P14 fits my large-ish hand in the tactical (overhand) position better than the P7. The P7 is just a bit to small for me to grip and easily actuate the tail switch... too much of a thumb bend is required. As such, I was able to get repeated "failed" actuations of turbo mode on both P7's, which I was able to attribute to the more awkward angle the thumb must take to press the switch. The P14 switch falls right in my thumb's sweet spot for reliable actuation.

The P14 spill on wide angle is wider than the P7. However, the brightness at that level of flood is dimmer than the P7. The P14 also has a single ring in the middle of it's beam, which is absent on the P7. It is interesting to note that when the P14's flood is tightened up a bit to bring the angle down to that of the P7, the ring disappears into the periphery. Less surprisingly, when the P14 flood is reduced a little to the same angle as the P7, it's overall brightness increased slightly to the level equivalent to the P7. It seems the P14 allows the head to be adjusted for more flood, at the reasonable expense of brightness and a ring artifact.

Also want to note I dug up another DX holster, this time absolutely perfect for the P14. I don't know the P/N right off hand, but will post a link when I'm back on a high-speed connection and can do a search in under an hour! The holster has a Velcro lid flap, but with no snap closure. Again, dirt cheap but amazingly high quality. The selling point is, again, it is neither too big nor too small for the P14, and it slips right in with no disturbing the focus of the head.

Mention was made about the relative high price of the LL lights, and also that LL is "endorsed" (in use, anyway) by some law enforcement units in certain areas of the world. On those notes, I just want to point out that connecting any flashlight brand with use in any branch of law enforcement is a "Surefire" way to guarantee prices stay inflated, and that's all I have to say about that ...

 

[Turbo DV8]

OK, the second P14 I opened had a rattling prism also, so I unscrewed the head. The prism reflector is secured in the head by a white retaining ring, similar in concept to the ring that holds the guts in a clicky tail switch. Both white rings had backed out a little bit. A quick torque with needle nose pliers cured the problem.

 

[Monocrom]

It's good to see this company making improvements to their line. I used to own a handful of older Coast lights, and am down to just their multi-color output "Recon" model. As for the others I used to own ... Gave one away, the rest just died on me.

 

[homermalou]

I have a Led Lenser P7 since almost one year ago, work as a security crew :naughty: (...imagination ), and I use NiMh accus, until this time, no problem with them ( as other users stated ) , and all I can say is...this flashlight is fantastic, I use the flood setting when it´s necessary in small places with a complete darkness environment, and the spot is incredible for hunting, or at least watching...bad boys running away; what more to tell you..it´s German technology ( and chinese manufacturing, I know..), just tell to anyone who don´t like this brand...give a try ¡¡ btw I also have a LD01, ITP a3 eos...I´m beginning love this flashlight´s world, cheers.

 

[Monocrom]

I have a Led Lenser P7 since almost one year ago, work as a security crew :naughty: (...imagination ), and I use NiMh accus, until this time, no problem with them ( as other users stated ) , and all I can say is...this flashlight is fantastic ...

Do you notice a significant drop in output with rechargeable batteries vs. alkalines?

If seen video reviews of the P7 on youtube. It looks very nice. But I'm surprised that LED Lenser does not recommend even using NiMh cells in their lights.

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

Do you notice a significant drop in output with rechargeable batteries vs. alkalines?

If seen video reviews of the P7 on youtube. It looks very nice. But I'm surprised that LED Lenser does not recommend even using NiMh cells in their lights.

I've been using alkalines in mine for a year (and it never suffered any of this business about being bright for a short moment and dim for a long time, in fact it was bright for a long time on alkies) and a week ago started using NiMH (cos I still can't find another torch that does its job as well as the P7 so I needed to solve the AAA alkaline availability limitation) and it's still bright as bright can be and running extremely well. There may be a marginal difference in brightness but it's not anything to notice and I use mine at longer ranges all the time so I'd have had a problem if it "dimmed" significantly.

 

[Monocrom]

I've been using alkalines in mine for a year (and it never suffered any of this business about being bright for a short moment and dim for a long time, in fact it was bright for a long time on alkies) and a week ago started using NiMH (cos I still can't find another torch that does its job as well as the P7 so I needed to solve the AAA alkaline availability limitation) and it's still bright as bright can be and running extremely well. There may be a marginal difference in brightness but it's not anything to notice and I use mine at longer ranges all the time so I'd have had a problem if it "dimmed" significantly.

Thanks for letting me know your experiences with this light.

 

[homermalou]

Do you notice a significant drop in output with rechargeable batteries vs. alkalines?

If seen video reviews of the P7 on youtube. It looks very nice. But I'm surprised that LED Lenser does not recommend even using NiMh cells in their lights.

After one year using NiMh batteries, I tell you: use them, I´ve been using the P7 riding my mountain bike at night in high mode even for >40 minutes, and didn´t notice any output drop or dimming in its brightness at all, btw I used the 4 LL original packacking´s alkalines only at the first time I switched on the flashlight, and of course, as JaguarDave-in-Oz states, I did´n notice any bright dropping using NiMh instead Alkalines, the best performance without a doubt is for the accus ones, got 8 aaa eneloops only for this light ( in my job when I´m working at night can´t allow myself get into a complete darkness place ), and so as they go off, change them for the fresh ones; hope this helps.

( If you like P7 videos on youtube, wait untill have the flashlight in your hands, it´s amazing...even in low mode )

Regards from Spain.

 

[LeifUK]

I have to say that my personal view is somewhat different (though I can only speak of what things are like in my area of Australia). Where I live, of all my friends, colleagues and family who own LED torches, none of them have ever heard of torch regulation or know of its effects (nor had I until I came here looking for info on a Fenix). None of them delve that deep into the workings of their torches. They, like me, made their decisions to buy based on price, brightness (or range), perceived feel of quality and decent runtime over an incadescent.

I had never heard of regulation until a few weeks ago, but many people who use these lights are cyclists and runners. For them it can be dangerous if the light output drops appreciably, and that is why I cancelled my order for the P7. When I discovered how deceptive the LED Lensor claims are, I felt annoyed (to put it politely). The last thing I want when in the middle of a forest is a light that gradually dims. This review made me cancel the order:

http://translate.google.com/transla...t.php?p=504265&postcount=13&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en

I don't understand the choice of 4xAAA rather than 2xAA. That means 3200mAh versus 4200mAh using the capacity values from my Panasonic Infiniums. :huh: Or have I missed something? :thinking:

I suspect the appeal of LED Lensor is primarily that it is one of the few non junk LED lights on general sale, the other one being the LED Maglites, and people compare them to non LED lights, and go "wow".

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

......but many people who use these lights are cyclists and runners For them it can be dangerous if the light output drops appreciably.............

I must admit my circle of aquaintance includes very few who fit that description (definitely no runners) but out here at night I think you'd be dead right about the danger.

Cycling at night on the twisty two lane roads out here in the middle of nowhere puts one in danger of being mashed by a car at high speed so I'd have thought that using an ordinary torch instead of a dedicated cycle lighting system would be unwise (maybe that's different in the cities?).

Those few cyclists I do know personally (two of whom rode in the tour de france last year) that do ride at night have big flashing red lights on backpacks so they can be seen by cars from far away and white lights attached to the front of their bikes so they can see and I'd imagine that based on that I'd reckon you were wise to cancel the order for a hand held torch and go for something different.

But on the subject of ligtht dimming appreciably, I haven't actually had that happen on my P7, it's often dimmed a little bit in use since the quad A's just don't have the oomph of bigger batteries but I've had plenty of notice to change the batteries before it went low enough that it wasn't what one would consider "bright".

On the other hand, for a while I did carry my Fenix L1D and its batteries went down on me one night out in the middle of the bush. The L1D went from having bright useable light to a dim moonlight mode that was too dim to walk in thick bush with and thank Dog I wasn't taking a shot with my twelve guage at the time (but I do wish you could switch to that mode intentionally with full batteries). That all happened within a matter of twenty seconds leaving me rather stranded.

Fortunately I had a backup light but if that's the normal behaviour of a regulated light then I think I'm far safer with the non-regulated behaviour of the P7.

......I don't understand the choice of 4xAAA rather than 2xAA.

I tend to agree but I guess it's based on the form and size of the unit. I just don't think you can get that length and thickness with two AA's and to be really honest, the sizing of the torch is actually a major point in its favour with me. That may make me sound like a down home yokel for basing my decision on looks and feel rather than technical performance but the whole thing has to be comfortable considering how much I use it as a tool, not a toy.

......I suspect the appeal of LED Lensor is primarily that it is one of the few non junk LED lights on general sale, the other one being the LED Maglites, and people compare them to non LED lights, and go "wow".

The appeal to me is the size, shape, strentgh and reliabilty coupled with the fact that the optic system concentrates the beam to such a point where the object target recieves a great deal more light than with a standard reflector torch putting out more overall light meaning that in my particular usage the torch works out brighter than many torches that put out more "lumens".

For me, the total light output of a torch is irrelevant, I don't use my carry torches for ambient lighting or ligthing rooms, I use them for looking at objects at a distance and when necessary, for lighting my footsteps to get to that distant object. All other uses (like looking for objects in dark sheds etc) are completely secondary and I'm happy to compromise on them.

I'm an ordinary person in need of a torch I can carry every day and night in my normal daily clothes in an open non-urban area and I'm not one who measures the performance of a light in the ways I've seen used on this forum, ceiling bounce tests do nothing to help me. All I can do is look at the beam and see how bright it is in the middle on a very distant dark wall. That's the closest test to how I use a torch in real life so perhaps I say wow when I see that concentrated beam but that's the test that's appropriate to me.

For me it's all about the amount of light at the centre of aim and the Lenser P7 uses its optic system to do this better than most other "ordinary person" torches. I had maglites since the early eigthies but they were intitally were useless to me until I found the focussed bulbs for sale.

The P7's optic system on "long range" means it wastes no light on "spilling" and as such it leaves my Fenix TK20 for dead in longer range use yet if I do sometimes need to use a "spill" size beam I have it at my finger tips. but wihtout a distracting "hotspot" in its middle. That arrangeemnt suits my usage and my eyes a whole heap better than the spot and spill arrangements on all my other LED lights.

That "spill" setting is also good for dimming the light even further on the low setting (yes, I know it still puts out the same amount of light but the "spill" setting spreads it so the object in the centre gets less light) so it helps make the torch an even more multi brightness tool.

Yes, I'm happy to admit the four AAA's of the P7 is bad but now I've gone rechargeable I don't care about that anymore, I can carry plenty of spares and no longer need to worry about finding them in shops or paying the seven to eight dollars they were charging for four alkaline AAA's.

 

[Turbo DV8]

I have two questions about the P7/P14 switches. I've read that the first generation of three-mode switches began on low first click, then high on second click. Now they begin on high on first click, then low on second click. I really am thinking that I would prefer low first, mainly so that I don't go to click it a second time thinking it is "off" when it is actually on "low," which is truly very low. If in flood mode on low in anything under total darkness, you will not see it, and holster it in low mode and drain the batteries.

So, do the battery carriers on the P7/P14 unscrew off the switch? How to do this without breaking something? I never was tempted to try to force it. Also, I wonder if anybody has both lights with both style switch, and can confirm other than the switch order, the length and threading are identical and interchangeable. If so, perhaps I could buy an older switch from Coast or somewhere. Thanks.

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

I have two questions about the P7/P14 switches. I've read that the first generation of three-mode switches began on low first click, then high on second click. Now they begin on high on first click, then low on second click. I really am thinking that I would prefer low first, mainly so that I don't go to click it a second time thinking it is "off" when it is actually on "low," which is truly very low. If in flood mode on low in anything under total darkness, you will not see it, and holster it in low mode and drain the batteries.

I was unaware they changed. Looks like I'll have to buy a new version one and see which switch arrangement I like best.

My original version one goes "low" on the first click, "high" on the second click and in either postion one can half press for momentary "turbo". There is, due to that "momentary" arrangement, a quick preflash to "turbo" when one first switches the torch onto "low". I've always actually thought that I'd prefer to go to "high" first (although the "momentary" sort of allows it anyway) but the problem I see there is if one switches off in daytime use one could inadvertantly leave it on "low" instead thinking it had been switched off since "low" is harder to see in daylight, especially since the lack of a reflector makes the emited light less visible if one does no more than glance at the torch end. Much harder to do if one has to switch through 'high" instead.

So, do the battery carriers on the P7/P14 unscrew off the switch? How to do this without breaking something? I never was tempted to try to force it. Also, I wonder if anybody has both lights with both style switch, and can confirm other than the switch order, the length and threading are identical and interchangeable. If so, perhaps I could buy an older switch from Coast or somewhere. Thanks.

My battery carrier comes out of the metal end with the switch still attached and I think that one would have to change the whole unit if one wasn;t wanting to make actual modifications inside.

However - I did read someone on here who has made changes to the switch wiring to make "turbo" lock on instead of "high" mode so it's highly likely you could instead make a wiring swap over to make "low" come on before "high".

 

[Monocrom]

I don't understand the choice of 4xAAA rather than 2xAA.

It costs companies less money to make a light with a 3AAA battery-carrier than it does to make a similar light running off of 2AA cells tossed down the barrel. This is why you'll often find some LED lights, at least in America, priced at only .99 cents. They're all low-quality, Made in China, and feature a 3AAA battery-carrier. Not saying that the P7 is cheap. But if LED Lenser / Coast made the same light in a 2AA format, it would cost more.

The nice thing about NiMh rechargeables in a 3AAA or 4AAA carrier is that those cells turn the light from direct drive into semi-regulated. Not sure on the technical aspect of why, but it's the nature of the batteries.

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

It costs companies less money to make a light with a 3AAA battery-carrier than it does to make a similar light running off of 2AA cells tossed down the barrel.

that's possibly true but led lenser do make 2 AA torches and they are way cheaper (at least here in Oz) than the 4xAAA ones or the 4xAA ones so I think that's probably not the reason in this particular case. I don't like the form of the 2 x AA ones or the size of the 4xAA ones otehrswise I'd never even have considered the 4 x AAA torch.

But would it really be cheaper to make a battery carrier torch in this case when you look at all the work and intricacy that's gone into the P7's 4xAAA battery carrier with all that gold plating and switchery and screws and what nots?

The nice thing about NiMh rechargeables in a 3AAA or 4AAA carrier is that those cells turn the light from direct drive into semi-regulated. Not sure on the technical aspect of why, but it's the nature of the batteries.

I have just recently changed to NiMH though not specifically for the advantage you state but I'll happily accept it as a collateral benefit for me.

I had a look at the graphs inside that review link that was posted a few posts ago and I am having a real problem seeing any major difference to the basic shape of the profiles between NiMH and Alkalines (or in fact to the fenix L2D on turbo wiht NiMH).

Sure the actual runtimes are different but the profiles are still very simlar. The Lenser on Alkies may have a bit more of an incline to the first portion before the drop off but it's in no way dramatic and does nothing to convince me that being denied regulation or NiMH is something to cut the throat over. I have to say that those graphs, which I saw for the first time today, convince me that most of the negative stuff written about the lenser's lack of regulation is just a theoretical technical irrelevance to my world. Turns out looking at those graphs that the P7's performance is no way near as bad as I was almost beginning to be brainwashed into thinking it was. No wonder I was having such a hard time correlating what was written to what i was actually seeing out the end of my torch.

 

[LeifUK]

JaguarDave-in-Oz: They are all reasonable points that you make. I'm no torch-geek either. Regarding dimming, the eye is actually not that sensitive to changes in brightness, especially if the dimming is gradual. For walking it is probably not important, but for running it is. That is just my point of view.

Apparently many people do use torches such as the Fenix L2D as a bike light. I can only speak for myself, but I would never go out with only one torch, either running, or on a bike, it's just too dangerous/risky. One of the great advantages of these small torches is that you can always keep a spare in a pack, or even on the handlebars. (Maybe you only need to keep spare cells in a pack, but I prefer not to swap cells at night.)

I'm not against the LED Lensor P7, and in many respects it looks nice. But I feel I was misled by the marketing claims which make it look as if it outperforms all other similarly priced torches. I think they need to tone down the claims in order to establish more credibility.

It would be interesting to compare the beam shots of the P7 against typical 2xAA torches in a typical outdoor situation (which is quite different from indoors).

 

[Turbo DV8]

I had never heard of regulation until a few weeks ago, but many people who use these lights are cyclists and runners. For them it can be dangerous if the light output drops appreciably, and that is why I cancelled my order for the P7. The last thing I want when in the middle of a forest is a light that gradually dims... for walking it is probably not important, but for running it is.

LeifUK, according to your posts, you actually make a case for the absence of regulation in your application. If you had a perfectly regulated light, you would have full brightness one second, then nothing the next. It would turn off like a switch when the battery was depleted. Would you like to be running or bicycling in the dark down a rocky path, and suddenly have the light turn off? Not all regulated lights have this severe a drop-off, but some do. Also, changes in brightness that appear quite substantial in the numbers printed on the paper actually can go almost unperceived by the eye. This is compounded by the fact that it takes the eye a relatively long time to "adjust" to darkness. Likewise, as a light gets gradually dimmer, the eye is partially compensating by becoming more sensitve to the available light. In short, if I were to ever put myself in a situation where I positvely would not want to be out of light in an instant, I would choose either un unregulated light, or at least one which is poorly regulated.

I think you cancelled your P7 order prematurely, especially if you had found out what that incredibly even P7 flood looked like illuminating your path.

 

[Turbo DV8]

My original version one goes "low" on the first click, "high" on the second click and in either postion one can half press for momentary "turbo". There is, due to that "momentary" arrangement, a quick preflash to "turbo" when one first switches the torch onto "low". I've always actually thought that I'd prefer to go to "high" first (although the "momentary" sort of allows it anyway) but the problem I see there is if one switches off in daytime use one could inadvertantly leave it on "low" instead thinking it had been switched off since "low" is harder to see in daylight, especially since the lack of a reflector makes the emited light less visible if one does no more than glance at the torch end. Much harder to do if one has to switch through 'high" instead.

It's true that having that momentary burst of Turbo negates one of the advantages of low first, but it would still be better I think to have low first so you don't accidentally turn it "off," only to find later it is on low with dead cells. I think some people were just unhappy in general with their switch not having memory, or that some people don't want to have to click twice every time to get to high, but the fact is you always have Turbo mode at a soft press, and you're going to have to press twice anyway to turn it off. So, it's, "Press me twice now, or press me twice later." And LED Lenser chose "later" and now it's too easy to turn the light to low, thinking it is off. It would not be as much of an issue if either the low was higher, or there was more spill in spot mode, so it would be more noticeable. I am in no way suggesting they increase their low! I love the low. It is low enough to read by comfortably from arms length when in flood. I am sick of "multi-level" lights that don't have much spread in the levels.

I did read someone on here who has made changes to the switch wiring to make "turbo" lock on instead of "high" mode so it's highly likely you could instead make a wiring swap over to make "low" come on before "high

I have an electronics degree, so if there is enough space inside the switch and the resistor layout is such that it is ammenable to tinkering, I have a reasonable amount of faith that I can get the switch to do pretty much anything I like. I thought I remember a passing reference in that mod article you also recalled about the author simply "unscrewing the battery holder from the switch," but there were no further details. Does it entail simply grasping the holder at the base near the switch and turning? I tried mine a little but it didn't budge, and unless someone has tread there before, I am not willing to crack a $80 lights!

 

[Turbo DV8]

It costs companies less money to make a light with a 3AAA battery-carrier than it does to make a similar light running off of 2AA cells tossed down the barrel. This is why you'll often find some LED lights... priced at only .99 cents. They're all low-quality, Made in China, and feature a 3AAA battery-carrier.

They are not cheaper because they have a battery carrier. They are 99 cents because having a 3-cell carrier allows them to direct-drive the LED's without the expense of a regulator. LED Lenser has just somehow figured out :thinking: how to keep their share in the market while still utilizing direct drive! If you have ever seen the build quality of a newer LED Lenser three or four-cell carrier, the detail that goes into it, I guarantee you would see that it most certainly would not cost less to manufacture than a 2AA body that you could throw two cells down. I think it is clear that LED Lenser chose to stay with direct drive, but realized if they chose to do so, they would need a better, more reliable and much costlier carrier than the "99 cent" lights use. If LED Lenser ever pulled their head out of their anti-regulation mindset, or at least offered a simple boost circuit, they would jump in a second to change their 4AAA carrier in the P7 to a 2AA. (But then, LED Lenser doesn't seem to jump for anybody, do they? They rather march to the beat of their own drum as long as the market will bear it.)Two AA end to end would completely change the size and shape of the P7, but 2AA side-by-side in a carrier would keep it unchanged except for a few mm extra length. So, I am not sure, if LED Lenser keeps shying away from regulation or boost circuit due to cost, why are they so willing to put so much money into their carriers? A boost circuit is not that costly.

 

[LeifUK]

LeifUK, according to your posts, you actually make a case for the absence of regulation in your application. If you had a perfectly regulated light, you would have full brightness one second, then nothing the next. It would turn off like a switch when the battery was depleted. Would you like to be running or bicycling in the dark down a rocky path, and suddenly have the light turn off? Not all regulated lights have this severe a drop-off, but some do. Also, changes in brightness that appear quite substantial in the numbers printed on the paper actually can go almost unperceived by the eye. This is compounded by the fact that it takes the eye a relatively long time to "adjust" to darkness. Likewise, as a light gets gradually dimmer, the eye is partially compensating by becoming more sensitve to the available light. In short, if I were to ever put myself in a situation where I positvely would not want to be out of light in an instant, I would choose either un unregulated light, or at least one which is poorly regulated.

I think you cancelled your P7 order prematurely, especially if you had found out what that incredibly even P7 flood looked like illuminating your path.

Yes, a sudden cut off is very bad, but a decline over 1 minute is fine, as it gives me ample warning of impending doom so to speak. The Fenix L2D has expired during a run, and I have more than enough time to whip out the backup torch. I usually recharge the cells beforehand so that it is not an issue. The problem with a gradual decline is that it is only when I trip over a protruding tree root that I realise the light is too dim for safety. I want all the battery energy to be used to produce light at the desired constant output, rather than have a large part used to generate low light levels. It kind of feels as if I am being diddled if the manufacturer says "up to 200 lumens" but within 5 minutes the output drops by 15%, and then gradually declines.

I can get a flood with the Fenix using the flip up diffuser, but I was surprised to find that it is not good for running. It puts me inside a well lit bubble with a sudden light to dark transition not far ahead. I find that creepy, especially when listening to some ambient music on an iPod. :duh2: For me the naked Fenix beam is ideal, as it has a bright hot spot for navigation, but lots of spill so I see the area around me. I am sure that flood has its uses.

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

It would be interesting to compare the beam shots of the P7 against typical 2xAA torches in a typical outdoor situation (which is quite different from indoors).

I have three 2 x AA torches, the Fenix TK20, the Fenix AA2 and the Fenix L1D with 2 x AA tube. I don't do cameras so there's no beam shots but I have extensively compared between them in an outside environment.

I compare them real world according to me, ie I look for objects with them at a distance and I use them to count sheep and horses roaming in my paddocks.

In terms of how far they'll light a target the Quark's maybe at best ten percent longer than the L1D-2AA but it's barely enough to notice and it's R2 compared to Q5.

My TK20 shoots an obviously much more concentrated hotspot that goes quite a distance compared to those two but my P7 still outshoots it (in terms of me being able to see a moving object with it) by at least fifty yards, the difference is very noticeable despite the fact that my particular P7's beam is nowhere near as concentrated as the TK20 so from what I can tell the P7 is longer range despite also lighting a larger area which really says something for the amount of light it puts out and maybe also shows how much the TK20 is let down by the sacrifice in light output that was made just so it could have that ugly yellow-orange beam which for my eyes makes identification of very small targets at any distance quite difficult since it tends to paint them all yellow/orange (for my eyes that torch's tint certainly does not help colour differentiation as claimed).

I guess I should also note that in my particular longer range general nightly use the P7 torch is rarely ever on for more than five minutes at a time (on high with three or four flashes to turbo) maybe two hours apart three times a night and the alkalines do tend to recover quite a bit when resting so I have never actually experienced any noticeable drop off in brightness while I am actually using the thing unless the batteries are nearly expended and it takes a fairly lonnnnnng period before it ever dims enough that I need to change batteries.

The long aspect of their performance is obviously far more relevant to my particular kind of use than to most people here, especially when copmpared to someone using their torch for running and for that sort of use (not that I'd ever run more than fifty feet at one time, I gave up ruuning except in emergencies about thirty years ago) I'd personally grab my AA2 cos it has a good wide beam spread that seems to throw an enormous amount of light into what I would call the middle distance and the P7 on high and "flood" doesn't seem to be as good at those closer ranges. In fact if I wasn't working over more than say seventy yards I'd probably opt for the AA2 altogether since it has a bunch more modes than the P7 whihc means I could also do away with carrying my Nitecore D10 in th epocket as a very close range utility torch (though the AA2's rattly batteries do annoy the crap out of me).

Incidently, one of my big complaints about the P7 was how easy it was to accidently bump the switch on when I was sliding it into the torch sleeve in my overalls etc but I yesterday (finally after a year and two months of use), managed to discover that the spring tension for the switch could be increased by turning the plastic retaining ring inside the tailcap. Now my switch is much harder to press to the click point and likely will never accidently be switched on again yet is still comfrotable to operate in use (maybe better even). All this time I put up with it when the fix was so simple, what a goose.