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Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650
- Thread starter Skylumen
- Start date
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So some questions:
IMR 26650, do I have to use this sell to have same results as you when desoldering the two wires, or will I get same results with the 4S original cell?
"3) 15min cool down restart shows that DD output remain the same while Factory is now brighter"
Do you mean that both lights where cooled down? And why is factory brighter ans for how long does this maintain?
So why did 4sevens made that regulation if no harm is done to the diode in DD?
IMR 26650, do I have to use this sell to have same results as you when desoldering the two wires, or will I get same results with the 4S original cell?
"3) 15min cool down restart shows that DD output remain the same while Factory is now brighter"
Do you mean that both lights where cooled down? And why is factory brighter ans for how long does this maintain?
So why did 4sevens made that regulation if no harm is done to the diode in DD?
I'm really curious how the burn in is going. Any results yet?
Thanks!
I ordered the wrong batteries to be used for burning so I gave up on it. I don't want to spend more money at the moment to get more batteries to burn the LED.
De-soldering the two little wires to the little resistors just deactivate the thermal sensor. Thus, no more thermal regulation. This does not make the light direct drive. there is still current regulation. The type of cells you use makes little difference as there is current regulation. IMR major advantage is with direct drive.
Both lights were cooled down. The DD brightness remain the same of course. The factory is brighter because the light cooled down so thermal regulation is less aggressive. Current regulaiton now has its advantage as voltage drops in the DD setup.
IMO 4Sevens put thermal regulation to make the light fool proof. Say you left it on while transport in your suitcase or the light was used in the hot desert. Anyhow, IMO I think its good to deactivate the thermal regulation so you can get the 800 lumen for as logn as possible. If you watch the light carefully then overheat shouldn't be a problem. The light did not appeared to be too hot even with the thermal sensor removed running until the battery was drained when I held it.
Anyways, do all mods at your own risk!
Thank you, what I´m not sure of now is how/what you do to make it DD? I'm missing something here. What kind of steps is necessarily?
Also,
"De-soldering the two little wires to the little resistors just deactivate the thermal sensor"
and
"The factory is brighter because the light cooled down so thermal regulation is less aggressive."
Should't the modded head be as bright as the factory in the above? I mean, because it doesn't have any connection with thermal sensor? I'm a bit confused with this...
Also,
"De-soldering the two little wires to the little resistors just deactivate the thermal sensor"
and
"The factory is brighter because the light cooled down so thermal regulation is less aggressive."
Should't the modded head be as bright as the factory in the above? I mean, because it doesn't have any connection with thermal sensor? I'm a bit confused with this...
DD drains the battery faster so it dims faster. Factory is current controlled so voltage drop is compensated.
I see, any tips on where I can read on how to mod it to Direct drive? New with this things...
I can give u tips. But u should not dd unless u gonna burn in the led
richpalm
Banned
Does burning in only make a difference with SST's or does this work for Crees also?
Rich
Rich
carl
Flashlight Enthusiast
Dear Vin,
I don't know how far you've gone in disassembling the S12 and the tailcap but I had a few questions:
1) If we try and put a FET switch in there (I believe one was being sold in the custom section of CPF to replace the McClicky) to handle the amps (I assume it has the same thickness as a McClicky) will that work? Or is the McClicky too thick, thus causing the tailcap to possibly bottom out on the battery tube sooner and leave tailcap threads exposed?
2) Is the electronics at the head removable? The LED appears to be held in place by 2 screws for centering it but what about the circuitry behind it?
3) Can the circuitry be changed from 2 mode to 3 mode?
Thanks again for your input.
I don't know how far you've gone in disassembling the S12 and the tailcap but I had a few questions:
1) If we try and put a FET switch in there (I believe one was being sold in the custom section of CPF to replace the McClicky) to handle the amps (I assume it has the same thickness as a McClicky) will that work? Or is the McClicky too thick, thus causing the tailcap to possibly bottom out on the battery tube sooner and leave tailcap threads exposed?
2) Is the electronics at the head removable? The LED appears to be held in place by 2 screws for centering it but what about the circuitry behind it?
3) Can the circuitry be changed from 2 mode to 3 mode?
Thanks again for your input.
1) I know nothing about switches
2) The LED is removable.
3) The electronics is almost impossible to replace since the head is glued.
carl
Flashlight Enthusiast
OK Thanks.
If you're going to provide tips on how to mod your S12 for direct drive, please do so here. Many of us will be interested in hearing your procedure. I was under the impression that removal of the thermal resistor automatically allows the LED pull the cell's voltage (4.2V on fresh cell) all of the time, even after several minutes. I'm obviously wrong though after reading your recent posts.
Clarification:
The S12 has two kind of regulation:
1) Thermal Regulation: Function to monitor heat. If heat goes up then current goes down. If heat goes down then current goes up. The light start out cold so LED current is at MAX. As it heats up thermal regulation reduce current to lower the temperature to protect the LED.
2) Current Regulation: Function to deliver the max amount of current to the LED for as long as possible. With a Direct Drive set up, current starts super high, but drops as voltage drop. Current regulation allow the LED to draw maximal current even when voltage drop to maintain max brightness for as long as possible before the sudden death. Sudden death means perfect regulation. The S12 current regulation is OK, but not the best out there. Therefore, there will be a short period of constant current before the light starts to dim slowly.
Deactivating the thermal regulation by removing the leads to the tiny resistor cause the light to think that its always cold. Thus, only current regulation is left in play. A direct drive setup pulls around 4A max off of an IMR while a factory setup pulls about 3.7A. This is barely any differences. The DD 4A quickly drops too! The advantage of DD output VS thermal deactivation is only good for about 3 minutes.
If you want to DD I strongly urge you to burn in the LED. I am going to order the batteries as BigC suggested and try out the burn in with those.
How to DD an S12 at your own risk:
1) Remove the head from the battery tube with lots of tape and a vise. This might be very hard to do. A buddy of mine attempted this unsuccessfully. Some S12 are glue loosely so you might get lucky!
2) Remove the bezel and reflector. Drill a hole from either the positive or negative predrilled hole down through the circuit board. Make sure to look carefully so u don't drill over any components or circuitry. Remove the positive lead to the LED and insulate it. Use thick solid copper strands to connect the positive connection on the LED to the positive post in the middle of the light through the hole you just drilled. You will need to make a custom long solder tip to get inside the tube. If this is super unclear then let me know and I might just make a video.
The S12 has two kind of regulation:
1) Thermal Regulation: Function to monitor heat. If heat goes up then current goes down. If heat goes down then current goes up. The light start out cold so LED current is at MAX. As it heats up thermal regulation reduce current to lower the temperature to protect the LED.
2) Current Regulation: Function to deliver the max amount of current to the LED for as long as possible. With a Direct Drive set up, current starts super high, but drops as voltage drop. Current regulation allow the LED to draw maximal current even when voltage drop to maintain max brightness for as long as possible before the sudden death. Sudden death means perfect regulation. The S12 current regulation is OK, but not the best out there. Therefore, there will be a short period of constant current before the light starts to dim slowly.
Deactivating the thermal regulation by removing the leads to the tiny resistor cause the light to think that its always cold. Thus, only current regulation is left in play. A direct drive setup pulls around 4A max off of an IMR while a factory setup pulls about 3.7A. This is barely any differences. The DD 4A quickly drops too! The advantage of DD output VS thermal deactivation is only good for about 3 minutes.
If you want to DD I strongly urge you to burn in the LED. I am going to order the batteries as BigC suggested and try out the burn in with those.
How to DD an S12 at your own risk:
1) Remove the head from the battery tube with lots of tape and a vise. This might be very hard to do. A buddy of mine attempted this unsuccessfully. Some S12 are glue loosely so you might get lucky!
2) Remove the bezel and reflector. Drill a hole from either the positive or negative predrilled hole down through the circuit board. Make sure to look carefully so u don't drill over any components or circuitry. Remove the positive lead to the LED and insulate it. Use thick solid copper strands to connect the positive connection on the LED to the positive post in the middle of the light through the hole you just drilled. You will need to make a custom long solder tip to get inside the tube. If this is super unclear then let me know and I might just make a video.
Last edited:
bigchelis
Flashlight Enthusiast
vinhnguyen54,
I have been really busy as of lately. I still have those CR123 NiMH cells I will send you so, you can burn-in that SST-90 and double those OTF lumens and report back with your findings.
I will try and go today to the post office and you should have those cells by Friday/Saturday. I need to see you finalize this project as I am really intrested in seeing a S12 Maximized to its full potential.
I have been really busy as of lately. I still have those CR123 NiMH cells I will send you so, you can burn-in that SST-90 and double those OTF lumens and report back with your findings.
I will try and go today to the post office and you should have those cells by Friday/Saturday. I need to see you finalize this project as I am really intrested in seeing a S12 Maximized to its full potential.
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank BigC. Can't wait!
bigchelis
Flashlight Enthusiast
Okay good update.
I sent you 5 NiMH CR123 sized. You can top off each one and make sure they are all at 1.43V each, then proceed with your break-in process. For the actual break-in you only need to use 4 of these, but I sent an extra one just in case one is bad. Murphys law.
For kicks, tests 3 of these cells first. In my tests the tailcap current is always higher then using IMR 18650 or IMR 26500's eventhough the voltage input is the same.
Good luck,
bigC
I sent you 5 NiMH CR123 sized. You can top off each one and make sure they are all at 1.43V each, then proceed with your break-in process. For the actual break-in you only need to use 4 of these, but I sent an extra one just in case one is bad. Murphys law.
For kicks, tests 3 of these cells first. In my tests the tailcap current is always higher then using IMR 18650 or IMR 26500's eventhough the voltage input is the same.
Good luck,
bigC
