Mag Light Discussion

[StarHalo]

Not sure what all the anger is about; engineering a flashaholic-grade high-output LED into a stock Mag would roughly double the price. The 2% flashaholic demographic would be pleased, and the other 98% of consumers would look elsewhere for a cheaper light.

Think of the Maglite not as a bleeding-edge/pinnacle-of engineering design, but rather a pragmatic/bang-for-the-buck flashlight, along the lines of the Zippo lighter or the Willys/Army Jeep.. You can buy something that's got more engineering behind it for more money, but what you get for what you pay is plenty.

 

[Robin24k]

You've got it backwards...it takes a lot more engineering to make something consumer-proof because of T&E, which I mentioned a couple posts above. This lengthy development cycle is why you won't see large manufacturers adopting new technology quickly.

 

[Robocop]

Gentlemen there is a reason certain threads are usually closed and these certain threads usually share the same topics. These certain threads usually bring out the worst in some members and it appears as if this one may have the same result.

I believe in honest discussions and I also believe in giving members the benefit of the doubt. I ask that those here keep this discussion proper and try to discuss this without the heated words as it is truly not necessary to make your point.

Please do not take my kindness as weakness as this thread will be closed quickly if it spins into a useless debate filled with angry opinions. Use this chance to have a discussion, even with different opinions, and do so with no drama please.....thank you.

 

[Lit Up]

Shame on this American company for fully developing a fine product, not a cheap Chinese piece of crap that craps out in a few months of day-in day-out use, forcing you to buy another cheap Chinese piece of crap that will break again. Shame on them for getting it right before releasing a final and complete product.

I've had two Maglite 2D Rebel samples both crap out on me in less than a month's usage. Have a co-worker who just last week handed me his XL-50 the other night to look at because it wouldn't function properly. It would only illuminate momentarily when the switch was pressed, and even that was only once every few seconds it would function, plus the low/strobe modes were non-existent. I told him to send it back.

That said, I have a ML100 currently, but you better believe I also have a Fenix TK50 arriving today too. I saw the TK40 torture thread.

And for the record, my Fenix LD25 kills the ML100 in performance.

 

[SimulatedZero]

I realize that I am a budding flashaholic here and that I am not the most knowledgeable person here, far from it infact. That being said, I have always liked maglites and have found that they generally provided what I needed. I use lights atleast once a day almost everyday, to me they are more tools than anything else. I also have a Fenix E21, TK15, and soon I will have a TK41. My plans after that are to pick up the LD25 and LD40. But still, I own and would like another maglite d-cell led light. Whenever people ask me what kind of light to get I always steer them towards maglite. It's not the brightest, smallest, most efficient, most rugged, or highest quality. But, they just work. I have maglites that my family has had since before I was born (I know, I'm quite young) and they still work fine. There aren't very bright, but they still work. I have never had an issue with a maglite, they are so simple that they just keep working. Kind of like a glock. I spend alot of time out in the woods at night and alot of my friends like my flashlights. Some of them like the maglite more than my TK15, some like the TK15 more than the maglite. I generally don't tell them how much the TK15 costs, so price wasn't the big factor there. Now I know that maglite is not a fenix, but at the same time, I know that fenix is not a maglite. I always keep a maglite 3 d-cell led light as my backup light. I have a few around the house and one in my car. I know I can always depend on my maglites. I don't expect my fenix to fail, far from it, but knowing the maglite is there just incase is very comforting. I ended up using one last night actually, a thunder storm knocked out our power for several hours. The first thing I did was grab my maglite and tailstand it for area lighting inside. 72 hours of continuous light is nothing to shake a stick at. Combine that "just feels right" with a low price and you have a good, functional light. Most of the time, that's all you need.

 

[radioactive_man]

That is actually a great comparison, but let me clarify that further because "great" is subjective.

If you are looking for simple and economical, you'll find that Maglite and Toyota make great products. If you want to make white-wall comparisons and drive on a track, you'll find that they aren't great. However, both make quality products because those products meet manufacturer specifications for performance and quality.

I meant great as in great for the flashaholic.

Just like how it wouldn't be reasonable to expect leather seats and a 400HP V8 engine in a base model Camry that costs $20K, don't expect an AR-coated glass window and 500 lumens in a Mini Maglite Pro that costs less than $30. Same goes for the other way around, don't complain that a Lamborghini is expensive and only gets 10MPG. If your expectations are reasonable, you won't be disappointed.

Amen!

 

[AnAppleSnail]

I got my girlfriend a flashlight to keep by her door for seeing who's knocking or what's rustling around in the dark out of town where she lives. She wanted a solid light (for whacking with) and decent reach. I wanted it to be reliable and ready for whenever she needed it. So I got her a Mag 2D LED on sale (The new XP-E model) and a pack of D cells. I bounced it down the stairs a few times to make sure the switch wouldn't quit, then I cleaned the springs and contacts. It lives by her door and reaches the yard, the trees, the road, and across the field to the far treeline. When a strange car was in her driveway, she was able to go see who it was and make sure they weren't up to no good, and the light revealed a family friend instead of a stranger. Mag Lites are what they are: Simple, fairly dependable, and affordable.

 

[Outdoorsman5]

I remember sometime around 1981 or 82 while on a campout in Scouts, a kid pulled out his mini-mag light using 2 AA batteries. It was love at first sight, and I loved it even more when I found out it was focusable, could be used as a candle with the head removed, and had an extra bulb in the tail.....I mean COME ON, it had an extra bulb in the tail....of course I liked it.

I remember saving my money up to get one, and as soon as I could I got it. In the years to come I always looked for improvements, but nothin. I didn't expect to find improvements, but always looked. My minimag did serve me well though. That was pretty cool back then, and I have owned several over the years. I had a few of em crap out on me, but most of em lasted for years.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has a "cheap Chinese piece of crap" from a while back that is still working fine.

I had lost interest in lights until 2006 when I bought a Fenix P1D CE with the XR-E LED in it. It was the brightest light I'd seen, and so small. Runs on a single CR123 producing 135 lumens plus 2 other settings & 2 blinky modes. I was really blown away, and felt like I'd missed all the developments. My addiction took root with that light, and I still love it & have it to this day. It runs perfectly 6 years later. It's beat up cus I edc'd it on my keys for 3 years. Since it's lasted this long with no issues, I'd say that's pretty good quality.

 

[yellow]

in response to mag-mans answer to my post, regarding the "invention" of a led light by Mag themselves ...

You MIGHT be correct - from Your point of view. But You lack the info necessary.
the time - the THREE years I wated for them - when the 1st production led lights STOMPED the market (Fenix did not sell all those early lights, because they were crap, in fact they were - and still are - better than ...) saw SEVERAL switches of typical "how-to build a led light".

f.e. the very early drivers did not fit into any AA light, then - very quickly - the round drivers, not needing much room have been developed.
and what did Mag release, years after 1st production errors have been done, known and changed and when short and small production HA lights w. full power and several levels already can be considered industry standard?
--> A light that obviously uses one of the earliest square shaped drivers, this one put alongside into the body and thus making a 2*AA light the length of an 3*AA and the 3*AA the length of a 4*AA (length error).
No good power to led (power error),
no mulitlevel (level / UI error),
no longer possible to use all those - already "standard" aftermarket end switches (because the tail also has been changed to unnecessary long, to fight the users using these parts, even when there is nothing offered from the maker himself) (aftermarket parts error)

Thats why pretty noone in here will start to cry when they dont go well.
We used the lights as for what they are now - as hosts for modding.
Their time was somewhen 10-20 years ago, but now they simply suck.


PS: You did notice I did not make any comment about the focusing?
That feature is argueable, the unnecessary length is not.

 

[Lit Up]

PS: You did notice I did not make any comment about the focusing?
That feature is argueable, the unnecessary length is not.

I think they should abandon the focusing ability on their LED models and work on improving the beam pattern. About the unneccesary length, very true. I just got the TK50 and was taken back a bit at the size of it. It's definitely smaller than a 2D Mag by a couple inches. I'll have to compare but I think it may even be shorter than the ML100 2C. Love it.

 

[radioactive_man]

I think they should abandon the focusing ability on their LED models and work on improving the beam pattern. About the unneccesary length, very true. I just got the TK50 and was taken back a bit at the size of it. It's definitely smaller than a 2D Mag by a couple inches. I'll have to compare but I think it may even be shorter than the ML100 2C. Love it.

For the flashaholic the TK50 is a better light than any Maglite. However Joe Average Consumer doesn't care, he shouldn't have to, and he can get a beater light with a good warranty for a third of a price of the Fenix TK50 ($85 vs $29 ... or even cheaper). Again you are comparing Toyotas to Porsches and complaining, that they are not the same.

@yellow: Their target market doesn't care about length, heat sinking, regulation, multiple levels and disco modes, spare parts or modding. They care about getting a cheap light with a good warranty.

 

[Lit Up]

For the flashaholic the TK50 is a better light than any Maglite. However Joe Average Consumer doesn't care, he shouldn't have to, and he can get a beater light with a good warranty for a third of a price of the Fenix TK50 ($85 vs $29 ... or even cheaper). Again you are comparing Toyotas to Porsches and complaining, that they are not the same.

They could probably save in manufacturing costs by getting rid of the cam; it's pretty useless with an LED unless they can find a way to morph the emitter from an X-RE to an X-ML as you twist the head from spot to flood. They try to be both at the same time and it fails. I have an old Brinkmann 2D (1 watt/ Lux I, I believe), and even the older Dorcy 3D (remember those?), that has a more workable beam by providing a bit more of a hotspot and some brighter spill by having side-stepped the silly focusing and just using a workable reflector/emitter combo instead. I guess that's one instance where Maglite litigation did some good - for the other guy.

As far as the TK50, the 4 lumens low mode lights up the living room quite sufficiently for 'don't step on the cat' navigation during a blackout, and will do so for hours and hours and hours. (480 stated) Plus it tailstands without the need of being crammed between the couch cushions. The ML100 has multiple modes which could have easily incorporated a very low lumen mode and the tailcap could have been redesigned easily enough to make it flat, both options at no considerable cost, especially considering they did a head redesign on the ML series that will call for all new accessories they'll have to manufacture since the current ones won't fit. (Traffic wands, filters, etc.) Yet they didn't bother with some useful improvements and the low setting only gets 48 hours. Maybe one day they'll get it right, and it won't cost them any more than it did to create the ML series to do so.

 

[SimulatedZero]

side-stepped the silly focusing and just using a workable reflector/emitter combo instead. I guess that's one instance where Maglite litigation did some good - for the other guy.

Most of the people who see my lights for the first time ask "Does it focus?". The two thing that people seem to care about is the battery and does it focus. It has become so ingrained that a good flashlight focuses that it is actually counted as a negative among basic, non-flashaholics when the light doesn't focus. Also, to be fair, the new XP-E emitter Maglites have a fairly usable beam. On full focus it is pretty clean as far as a tool goes. I'm sure you would still hate it while whitewall hunting, but in the real world it does just fine. The flood on it isn't bad either and the beauty is that you can make as floody as you want depending on the situation. If you are inside a house you can flood the light a lot before you get the infamous hole in the middle of the beam.The focusing really is useful, the Maglite D-Cells put out in excess of 30,000 candela. Granted it is a fairly small spot, but people only fully focus it when they want to see something far away. The only thing I would like to see updated on the D-Cell lights is a bigger hotspot, with the same throw, so it doesn't feel so laser like on full focus. But that's just my personal preference.

I could never see a non-flashaholic getting the TK50. While it is a great light, they will take one look at it and go "It doesn't throw any farther than my Maglite, doesn't focus, takes the same batteries, it does have some cool modes and run for a really long time but I can just get the 3 D-Cell which runs for 72 hours at 131 lumens instead of 4 lumens, 85$ vs 30$, I think I'll get the Maglite" Most people don't care about the extra care and thought put into the higher end lights, not for the price it costs.

 

[yellow]

I do think, that the lenght is a point for the ppl which are looking at a 2*AA light,
with the rest, You all are right.

Still, there is no need to have the 2*AA led version to be long enought to house 3 cells,
its simply a bad construction
Pretty sure this prevents really long scale sales

 

[AnAppleSnail]

I do think, that the lenght is a point for the ppl which are looking at a 2*AA light,
with the rest, You all are right.

Still, there is no need to have the 2*AA led version to be long enought to house 3 cells,
its simply a bad construction
Pretty sure this prevents really long scale sales

I'm not sure what a long scale sale is.

Minimag LED 2AA: 168mm
Quark 2AA: 147mm (Twice what the Minimag costs)
Romisen Rc-N3 in AA mode: 156 mm (Similar price to MiniMag LED)
3AAs is 150 mm in length. The Quark almost holds that many, the Romisen does, and the Minimag is a short stack of nickels longer.

21mm is a noticeable difference in length, but not a dealbreaker to the average joe. The flood/zoom interface is comforting to the average person who wants to work up close sometimes, far away other times. If a company doesn't listen to the voice of the customer ("Does it zoom? No? No thanks") won't be in business for long.


Lit Up:
What do you mean by a Mag3D not tailstanding outside the couch cushions? I mean, it won't remain upright on the roof of my van while I drive, but it will stand solidly on a table in candle mode. Without taking off the top it's a bit wobbly, but I would use a mounting bracket if I wanted the mag lite to illuminate my boat.

 

[justang1997]

I just read about the new mini maglite pro+ and came here looking for info. If I read this right, it is longer than it should be but that's about the only con? I want a laser like focus beam to throw out past my back fence and my 2 D won't fit in my pocket as well. The + model has the low mode. Has anyone played with the plus?

 

[AnAppleSnail]

I just read about the new mini maglite pro+ and came here looking for info. If I read this right, it is longer than it should be but that's about the only con? I want a laser like focus beam to throw out past my back fence and my 2 D won't fit in my pocket as well. The + model has the low mode. Has anyone played with the plus?

There's a whole thread on the Mini Pro+. I don't know that it's "Longer than it should be," because comparable lights (Price and lux readings) are similarly sized. For example:

Home Depot Rayovac DIY2AA-LED has almost as high lux as a focused stock Minimag LED, and is only 8mm shorter. This light costs $15 instead of $20, also runs on 2AAs for about as long, with about the same output.

 

[SimulatedZero]

If I read this right, it is longer than it should be but that's about the only con? I want a laser like focus beam to throw out past my back fence and my 2 D won't fit in my pocket as well.

The MiniMag Pro isn't too long for an AA light in my opinion. If that 2D you are talking about is the new LED one then you will be hard pressed to find something that will throw as far for the same price. If I remember correctly the MiniMag Pro+ has somewhere in the neighborhood of 5600 cd, which will not throw any where near as far as the 37,000 cd 2D Maglite. As long as you back fence is with in a couple hundred feet of your house then you should be good with the Pro+. Despite what others may tell you, those two Maglites should do you well.

 

[justang1997]

Thanks. Just read the long mini mag pro thread. I should have searched. I'm gonna order one tonight. I have a long back yard with a cow field behind it so the 2d (new version) is my back door light for any noises. But normal chores in the back yard have me wishing for a smaller light and I hate using my edc lights for yard work.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

Thanks. Just read the long mini mag pro thread. I should have searched. I'm gonna order one tonight. I have a long back yard with a cow field behind it so the 2d (new version) is my back door light for any noises. But normal chores in the back yard have me wishing for a smaller light and I hate using my edc lights for yard work.

You might consider a headlamp (Or one of the hands-free techniques for using a normal torch) for chores.