More EV negatives

[Monocrom]

Honestly, with the disgustingly obscene cost for replacement batteries for both Hybrid, and EVs; I can't even recommend hybrids anymore! To save money in the long-run, I buy and keep. Again, my Mazda 6 V6 sSport trim is nearly 20 years old and still runs very well thanks to scheduled maintenance and repairing minor issues before they get big. If she was an EV or a hybrid, I would have had to file for bankruptcy easily over a decade ago for not being able to afford a replacement battery!

Realistically, she'll outlive any EV or Hybrid produced today!
And still cost less to run! How screwed up is that?!

Nissan had the right idea with their Leaf model. Where you had the option of buying the car but leasing the battery. Pay a monthly, reasonable fee. ANYTHING goes wrong with the battery.... FREE replacement from Nissan. Well, that policy was brutally killed off.

Want an EV or Hybrid? Lease a new one once every three years. The original battery in the vehicle might last you that long. But buying outright? Oh Hell no!!!

 

[Guitar Guy]

More wisdom? Or propaganda?
You decide

I wouldn't know. I stopped reading his gibberish run-on paragraphs over a month ago.

If I believed in fake news conspiracy theories, I could just turn on CNN or MSNBC and get it straight from the source.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

When has the populus ever had to have a good invention forced upon them by a government mandate?

 

[Toulouse42]

I wouldn't know. I stopped reading his gibberish run-on paragraphs over a month ago.

If I believed in fake news conspiracy theories, I could just turn on CNN or MSNBC and get it straight from the source.

The thing is that I've come across a few people like him. No matter what you say, they keep repeating the same old story. A good use for the ignore button.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

Not a fan of e.v.s being forced on us. I think the battery technology has a ways to go before being adopted. We need a grid that can efficiently store green energy (wind, solar, etc.) for it to work, which we don't have now. We need battery technology that can scale up cheaper than something that uses lithium. We need a free market to let people make their own choices for what that best technology or technologies will be (lithium ion, lithium iron phosphate, solid state, etc.). Right now, we have government picking winners and losers based on which politicians are getting paid the most to limit our choice. I recently became aware of an old tech that could help called nickel hydrogen batteries. They work in extreme heat and cold, don't release poisonous fumes and catch fire endlessly like lithium ion batteries, and last for 30,000 charges. The technology has been field tested in our satellites for decades. The batteries are bulky, and don't have as much energy density as lithium ion, but I think they would work great for electric semi trucks, large grid power stations, and even in an attic for solar power storage for your home. The company making them now is called Enervenue.

 

[bykfixer]

When has the populus ever had to have a good invention forced upon them by a government mandate?

DMV comes to mind.

 

[Lowglow]

One if the touted positives of driving an EV is the 'instant torque'. I personally think its a negative point. Here's why (my own opinion as a UK resident).

I'm already seeing some EV drivers using the wrong lane and relying on acceleration to 'beat' a queue by cutting in. It's already making worse some people's aggressive driving style by adding high speed in busy areas. The owners like to beat 'slower moving traffic' but again its often an excuse for a needless overtake. With 44bhp I don't overtake much but I do notice those who shoot past are stuck further on and what they shot past turned off anyway. They then often resort to speeding which is again more danger.

Not that long ago a 1.3 engine with around 60bhp was all anyone needed - and most people owned. Everyone cruising at 60 or so. We all went along together. But as the power output has gone up so have the speeds. And it will likely only get worse. Looking at Tesla clips from Wham Bam I'm almost having to look away at some of the inappropriate use of speeds I'm seeing (often followed by the inevitable crash) by Tesla drivers.

I love seeing skilled and safe driving - but so few EV drivers feel like applying that, rather their objective is 'getting past slower traffic'😑. I can only see it getting worse.

 

[bykfixer]

Can't fix stupid, lowglow. Give a monkey a gun and other monkeys will be shot.

 

[Toulouse42]

One of the advantages of getting older is that I have more self control than my 17 year old self. When you become a parent you become more aware of safety on the road. Now that I'm a grandfather it's even more so. Cutting in on traffic at the last minute suggests that those drivers either don't care (dangerous) or have a very poor spatial sense and lack of planning (maybe even more dangerous).

Low glow - my first car was a Mini 998 cc with about 35 bhp. It felt like a rocket at first.

My neighbour used to buy and sell his cars regularly. One day in conversation we figured out that he had lost more money on his Jaguar XJS than I had spent on all my cars ever.

 

[Lowglow]

One of the advantages of getting older is that I have more self control than my 17 year old self. When you become a parent you become more aware of safety on the road. Now that I'm a grandfather it's even more so. Cutting in on traffic at the last minute suggests that those drivers either don't care (dangerous) or have a very poor spatial sense and lack of planning (maybe even more dangerous).

Low glow - my first car was a Mini 998 cc with about 35 bhp. It felt like a rocket at first.

My neighbour used to buy and sell his cars regularly. One day in conversation we figured out that he had lost more money on his Jaguar XJS than I had spent on all my cars ever.

Some aggressive driving is also due to some drivers feeling that because they spent more, they should be in front of cheap old cars - or they feel they are not getting their moneys worth. I see this a fair bit - big new expensive cars right on the cheap old cars tail even though they are driving at the speed limit. Range Rovers are terrible at this especially over traffic calming measures.

The original Mini is an amazing feat of packaging and honestly if more people owned them now the entitlement would drop and the fun of driving shine through. Those used to EV's will never know the joy of threading a lightweight car with direct and wiry steering around some fun B roads. But actually piloting your machine is not meant to be fun anymore, it's all about 'being relaxed'. I happen to love actually driving and feeling camber changes, little bit of playfulness even when taking the parents out a Sunday drive. Here's a snippet from the Autocar review of my car in 1986. Cars used to be fun to drive.

 

[bykfixer]

My favorite car @Lowglow was a 1966 Ford Mustang with a 3 speed automatic and a 200ci inline 6 cylinder motor. No power brakes, no power steering. It went top speed 65mph going uphill or down hill. It got 18mpg city or highway. That part won't so great. But you could feel the road through the steering wheel and was a hoot to drive on twisty back roads. 0-60 in a day or so, it was like driving a big lawn tractor with a paultry heater but you could stand inside the engine bay and change the starter motor. It had 3 wires besides the spark plug wires. Parts were cheap and reliable. In traffic it handled like a slot car. No cup holders, no vanity mirrors, no computer controlled gadgets. Drop a screw in the engine bay and pick it up off the ground below. It was a marvelous automobile.

 

[orbital]

+

Wasn't going to mention this, but probably should.

Last week I went to get an emissions test, takes a couple minutes.
On my way home, on a highway, I see a giant OVERSIZE LOAD truck entering from on-ramp.
This was a 'ways' in front of me & naturally went over to the left lane.

In front of me was a white car still sitting in the right lane as the giant truck now just about on the highway.
..thought to myself, what a dolt for not simply going to the left lane.
Then at the last second this person brakes hard, puts on blinker and tries to come over right in front of me.
(you never brake to get in position on highway, you accelerate)

Then I notice this airhead is driving a Tesla, as I was passing noticed he has a covid mask on.
Just can't make this $hit up!!!!!

Haven't laughed that hard in years ====== HOWLING

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

My favorite car @Lowglow was a 1966 Ford Mustang with a 3 speed automatic and a 200ci inline 6 cylinder motor. No power brakes, no power steering. It went top speed 65mph going uphill or down hill. It got 18mpg city or highway. That part won't so great. But you could feel the road through the steering wheel and was a hoot to drive on twisty back roads. 0-60 in a day or so, it was like driving a big lawn tractor with a paultry heater but you could stand inside the engine bay and change the starter motor. It had 3 wires besides the spark plug wires. Parts were cheap and reliable. In traffic it handled like a slot car. No cup holders, no vanity mirrors, no computer controlled gadgets. Drop a screw in the engine bay and pick it up off the ground below. It was a marvelous automobile.

My first car was a 1967. Everything else was the same. I manually shifted that three speed like Speed Racer. Oh to be 16 again but know everything I know now.

 

[Voider of Warranties]

I've been driving sticks for so long I get confused when I have to drive someone else's automatic. It always feels like I'm forgetting something important. Ironically my first car was a 1970 Torino with an automatic 3 on the tree!

 

[TPA]

This is from someone else's presentation, but it has similar results to the calculations I made when deciding between getting an EV and getting my current car. The presenter correctly pointed out that NONE of these graphs start at zero, nor should they. There's serious amounts of CO2 involved with the production of the raw materials, manufacturer, and shipping of the car. I should also point out that these numbers don't include the transportation of these raw materials.

What's missing from BOTH of these graphs (and my calculations as well) was replacing the EV battery. No EV battery will make it to 180,000 miles. There's quite a few reports of Teslas needing new batteries between 80-120k miles. So, these graphs are overly-optimistic when it comes to EV CO2 produced.

Also, these graphs are for conventional petrol/gasoline-powered cars. Diesel-powered cars use substantially less fuel than their petrol equivalents. A diesel hybrid can use 60%-70% less fuel.

 

[alpg88]

Here in NY regular gas was 3.05 few days ago at the station i fill up, diesel was around 4.50. i wont be saving much by having more efficient engine that uses more expensive fuel. It may make sence in places where diesel at least same price, but not in usa, that is why you almost do not see diesel cars, even trucks are not all diesel.

 

[vicv]

[

Cue the troll. Time for a speech. Stand back. Make room. 😁 👀 🚐
Why start this "discussion" already fighting?