NEW OLIGHT M20 WARRIOR

[Stephan_L]

Once again ...

when I heard the first rumours about the Olight M20 "Warrior", I thought this could have a chance to be a really cool light.

After I saw the first pictures and read the specs of the flashlight in this russian forum, I even thought about getting one.

BUT ONCE AGAIN the terrible UI ruined everything!

@ MattK:
You wrote:

This project has been brewing for a good 9-10 months so there's been a lot of time for refinement, discussion and optimization. We definitely considered the wants and needs of law enforcement, soliders, outdoorsman and, of course, CPF members which resulted in features like the removeable bezel, tactical grip, bezel down pocket clip, anti-rattle CR123A magazine, the ability to use a wide range of batteries, a quality lanyard system, a holster that could hold spare batteries, IP6-8 rating, 1" body tube for weapon mountability, etc...

But why did nobody read or think about the UI for tactical applications? You write, that you considered the wants and needs of law enforcement. But who from the law enforcement told you that this would be an acceptable User Interface?
To twist the head 90° and back to change modes is simply impossible in tactical applications! Try this while holding a handgun in your other hand. I don't think you can make it!
And you have to remember, what mode you used last time! Otherwise, you may end up starting in low mode when you need instant brightness when you need it (and maybe it costs you your life)!

Sorry MattK and Sorry Olight, but what you did is - maybe - a good light for the Outdoor - fans in a tactical look! But this flashlight has - in my opinion - no worth for tactical application.

I am now looking forward for the new Inova Inforce. I hope these are bright enough. The UI looks great as far as I have seen it yet!

Bye,

Stephan

 

[Mdinana]

I think it's great looking at the handbooks that come with the lights, how the Chinese to English is usually a bit wrong. I can't imagine the errors put in with a Chinese->Russian->English translation!

 

[woodrow]

Once again ...

when I heard the first rumours about the Olight M20 "Warrior", I thought this could have a chance to be a really cool light.

After I saw the first pictures and read the specs of the flashlight in this russian forum, I even thought about getting one.

BUT ONCE AGAIN the terrible UI ruined everything!

@ MattK:
You wrote:


But why did nobody read or think about the UI for tactical applications? You write, that you considered the wants and needs of law enforcement. But who from the law enforcement told you that this would be an acceptable User Interface?
To twist the head 90° and back to change modes is simply impossible in tactical applications! Try this while holding a handgun in your other hand. I don't think you can make it!
And you have to remember, what mode you used last time! Otherwise, you may end up starting in low mode when you need instant brightness when you need it (and maybe it costs you your life)!

Sorry MattK and Sorry Olight, but what you did is - maybe - a good light for the Outdoor - fans in a tactical look! But this flashlight has - in my opinion - no worth for tactical application.

I am now looking forward for the new Inova Inforce. I hope these are bright enough. The UI looks great as far as I have seen it yet!

Bye,

Stephan

As someone who has had the unfortunate need to hold a light and a gun with serious intent in the past... I think this will be a great light. I never needed to change modes while lining up the sights with a target. Now (thankfully) I do not work in that area any longer... but I think the light should work fine. I plan on buying one for Olight's reliability and to be honest, the R2 led. I use my Fenix T1 as my "gun" light now... and see no need to change levels during a tactical situation (hopefully one never comes up) with it either. Others may disagree.

 

[MattK]

Woodrow: Exactly - in a tactical situation with a weapon you should be using high. If you're a tactical user the only modes you would ever memorize are high or maybe strobe. The memory is so you have confidence about WHICH level is going to activate when you start the light rather than having to cycle through various modes to get the mode/level that you need.

Stephan, most reviews have LAUDED the UI vs some other options because the memory allows you to preset a level or mode, any level or mode, rather than having to cycle through unwanted levels and modes every time you start the light. I think your perspective is maybe backwards on this one; if you're a 'real' tactical user you'll simply leave the light programmed to high, or if say you're doing a forced entry, pre-programmed for strobe - you're not going to be changing the modes in the midst of a situation. Also, the twist isn't 90 degrees it's maybe 10-20 degrees. Rating a UI as 'terrible' that you've never used or experienced is hardly logical or thoughtful.

 

[Stephan_L]

Hey MattK,

maybe my words were somewhat hard, sorry for that!

I am using my flashlights in tactical situations and have made my expieriences with this things.

1rst: I know, there are different thoughts about the memory mode! Some like it and some don't. I'm one of the second kind! And you do not always have the chance to preprogramm your flashlight. When you are out on patrol and suddenly something happens, where you would need your light, then there is no time for preprogramming! I prefere a light where I always know, in which level it starts. Then there is no bad surprise.

2nd: As I have done several operations, I know that it might very well be nenecessary to change the modes! When moving through a building while still searching, I wan't constant light. This makes moving and searching more secure and reduces stress. I just need the strobe, when I find an aggressive person to support my tactical movements or my arrest! After that, I would, once again, use the constant light, and not the strobe!

3rd: By the example above you can see, why I find the need for a UI, that I can handle with one hand! If I want to do those things above while holding a handgun, I need to make it all with one hand because I can't put the gun back to the holster for having a free hand in the middle of such a szenario!


That's very simple why I do not like the UI of the Olight M20 "Warrior". And I think I don't need to test the light, to see this.

Bye,

Stephan

 

[MattK]

1 - easily solved by putting the light away on high - this way it always activates on high.

2 - besides lights that cycle modes/output via rear clicky (Fenix P3D, Olight T20, etc)most of the others use a tailcap you have to twist(Gladius, Inova) requiring either a secnd hand or the you flip the light around in your hand - thus taking the light off of the subject to use your thumb & index finger to adjust the tailcap - which is usually a poor idea. You'd be better served, in this case, leaving the light on high.

3- Short of something like a LumaPower MVP where you can cycle via the SideKick switch most lights with strobe are going to require you to twist a tailcap or repeatedly half-press a tailcap switch. The issue with the half-press that has been pointed out to me by LEO/military types is that when your adrenaline is pumping and your hands start shaking it's hard to screw around with a light in these circumstances. Short of perhaps a LEDLogic Striker (3 fast taps to the side switch) none of these lights are really meant, IMO, to have you change modes in the heat of the moment. If you're in a potentially life threatening situation with your weapon drawn don't start f%&*'ing with your flashlight.

 

[yalskey]

I'm really digging this debate.

I've had the same thoughts as StephanL on the UI... but I can see where Matt is coming from too.

In the end, I'm leaning towards being able to switch from max to strobe easily with one hand.

Matt... it would be nice to know the mode switching order on the M20. I know it starts in the last mode you where in, but if you cycle through the modes, what's the order?

Let's keep this going, I'm learning more and more!

 

[shomie911]

1 - easily solved by putting the light away on high - this way it always activates on high.

2 - besides lights that cycle modes/output via rear clicky (Fenix P3D, Olight T20, etc)most of the others use a tailcap you have to twist(Gladius, Inova) requiring either a secnd hand or the you flip the light around in your hand - thus taking the light off of the subject to use your thumb & index finger to adjust the tailcap - which is usually a poor idea. You'd be better served, in this case, leaving the light on high.

3- Short of something like a LumaPower MVP where you can cycle via the SideKick switch most lights with strobe are going to require you to twist a tailcap or repeatedly half-press a tailcap switch. The issue with the half-press that has been pointed out to me by LEO/military types is that when your adrenaline is pumping and your hands start shaking it's hard to screw around with a light in these circumstances. Short of perhaps a LEDLogic Striker (3 fast taps to the side switch) none of these lights are really meant, IMO, to have you change modes in the heat of the moment. If you're in a potentially life threatening situation with your weapon drawn don't start f%&*'ing with your flashlight.

The Gladius is completely easy to use with a single hand, it was designed with single handed use in mind.

Of all the lights I've seen and used, I would have the Gladius as my light in situations where your adrenaline is pumping. It's UI is dead simple and it becomes muscle memory very quickly. If only they dropped in an R2, then it would be the ultimate tac light.

 

[TOTC]

Looks like a neat product. Is it just wishful thinking or does it look like it might take P60 drop-ins?

From the manual

No Hassle Lifetime Guarantee: Batteries will deplete,
switches will wear out, electronics will burn out, rubber
boots and O-rings will age. Everything else is covered
by our lifetime no-hassle guarantee: if it breaks, we fix it!

Hahahaha..... so they won't replace the electronics or the switch, nor will they provide you new o-rings or tailcap boot? But everything else is covered? What does that leave? The emitter and the body? So all the things that are likely to fail will not be covered, but all the things that will last a lifetime are covered under the "No Hassle Lifetime Guarantee." Got it :thinking:

 

[AlexLED]

Sounds like a great light !

I especially like the low low and the memory, enabling it to start in low. :thumbsup:

 

[MattK]

The Gladius is completely easy to use with a single hand, it was designed with single handed use in mind.

Of all the lights I've seen and used, I would have the Gladius as my light in situations where your adrenaline is pumping. It's UI is dead simple and it becomes muscle memory very quickly. If only they dropped in an R2, then it would be the ultimate tac light.

As I said, "requiring either a second hand or the you flip the light around in your hand - thus taking the light off of the subject to use your thumb & index finger to adjust the tailcap"

To switch positions/channels with the gladius you need to either use your other hand or turn the light around in your hand which means taking it off of your target....unless you know some secret I don't....

 

[shomie911]

As I said, "requiring either a second hand or the you flip the light around in your hand - thus taking the light off of the subject to use your thumb & index finger to adjust the tailcap"

To switch positions/channels with the gladius you need to either use your other hand or turn the light around in your hand which means taking it off of your target....unless you know some secret I don't....

I never had to flip it around in my hand, you just slide your thumb and index finger next to the rotary dial and it turns into the next position, no flipping or anything, all in one hand without moving the light off the target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9elYNB8YUE

Watch the video, it's not me, but it explains visually what I'm trying to with words. (Keep in mind that the constant on mode can be set to anything and in the video it is set to extreme low, for tactical use all modes would be at 100%.)

 

[xevious]

Matt, is this light seriously going to put out 250 lumens for 4 hours? If so, I'm sold! I like the level choices: 250/90/7. It seems quite usable.

So what's the program for early adopters all about?

 

[shomie911]

Matt, is this light seriously going to put out 250 lumens for 4 hours? If so, I'm sold! I like the level choices: 250/90/7. It seems quite usable.

So what's the program for early adopters all about?

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=182623

Information is going to be released in that thread tonight. :thumbsup:

I wonder if it's going to be a lower introductory price or something else.

 

[MattK]

We don't have an integrating sphere but I assume the 250L is at at the emitter number. We did some light meter testing today with a Q5 prototype/sample and it is the brightest light in it's class - the only single emitter (XRE, not including P7) light that we have that is brighter is a LumaPower MRV which is really in a different size class. The levels are very widely spaced. Low>Med>High> Strobe + memory.

The program is a tiered lower price introductory offer for a limited number of buyers. More details will be posted ASAP.

 

[shomie911]

We don't have an integrating sphere but I assume the 250L is at at the emitter number. We did some light meter testing today with a Q5 prototype/sample and it is the brightest light in it's class - the only single emitter (XRE, not including P7) light that we have that is brighter is a LumaPower MRV which is really in a different size class. The levels are very widely spaced. Low>Med>High> Strobe + memory.

The program is a tiered lower price introductory offer for a limited number of buyers. More details will be posted ASAP.

I'll keep an eye out for the introductory offer, hopefully I can score one of the lights cheap. :twothumbs

Seems like the M20 is going to be quite the light.

12 hour runtime at 90 lumens, that's basically 11 times the runtime of my old Gladius in about the same form factor.

Portable lighting has sure come a long way in the past couple years, I can't imagine what it's going to be like in the next few, 1000 LED lumens with 50 hour runtime Battery manufacturers are going to go out of business. :laughing:

 

[Ctrain]

would anyone know what kinda throw this thing has?
Or would I be best just to go for the DBS?

 

[MattK]

Promo posted

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=182623

 

[Glenn7]

would anyone know what kinda throw this thing has?
Or would I be best just to go for the DBS?

I have a DBS - it has a big deep reflector and nothing beats it in its class for throw - it is longer than the M20 & the head on the DBS is about 48mm V's 33.5mm on the M20 - it also has lots of metal (a tank!) to absorb heat as it is driven at 1.2 amps and is so simple to upgrade so it wont have to buy another light every time a new LED comes out

 

[Ctrain]

well as soon as i get mine I guess there'll be two DBS's on the apple isle
Still like the look of this warrrior though