marinemaster
Flashlight Enthusiast
Send an email to Petzl see what they say.
New Petzl 2017 Headlamp Models...
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OldmanRon
Newly Enlightened
Hi,
I agree with MarineMaster (above). Send an email to Petzl USA. On the afternoon of January 12th I contacted them on their website with a question about using lithium batteries in my new Tikka, and at 9:00 the next morning I received a personal reply/answer via email from Kyle at Petzl headquarters in Salt Lake City in Utah. Great customer service!
I think that you may need "more" headlight for long trail runs at night. Lots of info and opinions on this sight ...
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Fantastic news about the E-lite hitting 50 lumens. That might explain why they had them on sale so that I bought 4 of them a bit ago:-( LOL
Crap, the new one has a whistle on the headband, still runs off the 2 coin cells, comes with a case and they are still claiming 26 grams. For $29 I'm breaking out the credit card right now.
Interesting, says "SKU not available". (SKU: E02 P4). I'll try later. Oh yes.... she will be mine.
Crap, the new one has a whistle on the headband, still runs off the 2 coin cells, comes with a case and they are still claiming 26 grams. For $29 I'm breaking out the credit card right now.
Interesting, says "SKU not available". (SKU: E02 P4). I'll try later. Oh yes.... she will be mine.
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I have received my Actik Blue today.
It is a Tikka sized headlamp and fits with my Tikka Adapt Kit to mount it on my helmet. The first impression is ok. My headlamp with the most burning hours is the Fenix HL60R at this moment.
What I like on the Actik is the soft edges of the wide beam and the brighter red LED in comparison with the HL60R. The specs tells me it should burn 60h on 300 lumen. That is very long in comparison with HL60R that has 3h runtime on 400 lumen on paper with 1x 18650. Maybe the 60h runtime will be with the special Core accu instead of 3x AAA? The Actik is small and very light.
What I don't like is no memory function. It always starts in low or red. Also if you are planning to use in heavy rain you can have some concerns about IPX4. The color is this light is cooler than the Cree U2 of my HL60R. I like the warmer color of the HL60R more.
What I like on the Actik is the soft edges of the wide beam and the brighter red LED in comparison with the HL60R. The specs tells me it should burn 60h on 300 lumen. That is very long in comparison with HL60R that has 3h runtime on 400 lumen on paper with 1x 18650. Maybe the 60h runtime will be with the special Core accu instead of 3x AAA? The Actik is small and very light.
What I don't like is no memory function. It always starts in low or red. Also if you are planning to use in heavy rain you can have some concerns about IPX4. The color is this light is cooler than the Cree U2 of my HL60R. I like the warmer color of the HL60R more.
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Picked up one of the new e+Lite models up the other day (Cabela's has them), and unfortunately, right back it went. The mode switching was flaky, and the white LED had a bad blue / purple tint to it. (Totally possible that I got a lemon, too.)
I was surprised by the output, or seemingly lack thereof -- not much throw for 50 lumens, even compared to older 5mm LEDs. But granted, there is no optic whatsoever, just a bare LED covered by a piece of plastic for protection. So more of a floody beam pattern.
Will probably wait a bit, and give this another try in the future. It would definitely make a great addition to any survival kit.
There's no LED so efficient that it will burn for 60h at 300 lumens with such a small Li-ion or Lipo battery The battery doesn't hold that much energy. That spec has to be an unregulated mode starting at a quoted 300 lumens and then fading. To really get a full 300 lumens for 60 hours with the most efficient electronics and LEDs, I think you would need about 15 to 18 x 18650s (more or less).
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OldmanRon
Newly Enlightened
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marinemaster
Flashlight Enthusiast
Couple of things, for the e+ model. Battery is a CR2032 NOT Li-ion.
And not sure why it was blue as from the picture is not a 5mm led. It looks like either Cree or Philips. They never made LED die that are blue in tint.
And not sure why it was blue as from the picture is not a 5mm led. It looks like either Cree or Philips. They never made LED die that are blue in tint.
marinemaster
Flashlight Enthusiast
Been using the Tikkina for a few weeks now. Had to do repair on my car late at night it worked great working under the car. Used it for about 30 minutes or so on the 100 lumens level, did not notice dimming running on Eneloop AAA white wrapping.
OldmanRon
Newly Enlightened
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OldmanRon
Newly Enlightened
No kidding. When I first read what he wrote I had a WTF moment and then almost instantly thought the same thing as you. I have the new unregulated 2017 Tikka and the burn time info that they quote is kinda misleading ... as in quotingthe same burn time (in hours) for both the Medium and High settings! I actually started a thread about it here, and some helpful more-knowledgable guys quickly brought me up-to-speed. Basically, in an unregulated light like the Tikka, it starts off bright or medium and then gradually shuts down, apparently after about the same amount of time.
Unlike my Tikka, the current Actik is a regulated (called ACTIVE by Petzl) light that is powered by 3 AAA batteries. It seems impossible that it could burn at a regulated/constant 300 lumen power for that length of time.
So I went to a couple of Petzl websites to see for myself ...
https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/AC...K#.WKiK4RgZOis
https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/Ne...E#.WKiMIhgZOis
As you can see in the first one, the specs say MAX POWER - 300 lumens with a constant/regulated burn time of 60 hours, which is unreal. The light comes with three regular batteries but is CORE-compatible.
The second link (where they call it the Actik Core and say it is available in March) says it is 350 lumens with a constant/regulated burn time of 2 hours … much more believable. The light comes with the CORE battery (which might explain the extra 50 lumens) but is compatible with regular batteries.
Is the first chart really correct? Not a typo? It seems scientifically impossible. Very confusing.
Edit (several hours later) - Both links are now suddenly now as dead Monty Python's infamous Norwegian Blue parrot ... with a graphic of a skull wearing a fired-up powerful Petzl headlamp within a glowing/lit-up cubic foot of ice. Dead link. "The Page Cannot be Found" status ...
Oopsy ... what a mea culpa
It looks like somebody at Petzl "follows" this page even on Sundays.
However, this uncorrupted/fresh link from Google will work for the AAA powered Actik at least.
https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/AC...K#.WKpM8hgZOis
For now anyways ...
Here's another one for the Actik Core ... for some reason it won't work as a hot link from this post but it will work as a cut-and-paste into the URL window above ...
https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/New/ACTIK-CORE#.WKr4uRgZOis
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OldmanRon
Newly Enlightened
Double post.
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Like I said, if you have experience with brighter lights and their specs and efficiency, you don't need to dig into Petzl's specs to know that you can't get 60 hours of 300 lumens with 3 AAAs.
With 3 AAAs, you get 800 mAh capacity at 3.6V with Eneloops or similar low-discharge NiMH batteries, and less with alkaline batteries, at least with high discharge currents. The CORE battery for the Actik is 1250 mAh at presumably 3.7 V nominal, so it's probably about 50% better than Eneloops. If you go with expensive one-time use lithium batteries, you can beat the CORE's capacity. The Energizer Lithiums are 1250 mAh, and 1.5 V nominal, but actually start at 1.7 V, so 3x1.7= 5.1 V.
In comparison, one decent quality 18650 can have 2600 to 3400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V, so the CORE is less than half the capacity of a single 18650. That makes sense, because Petzl's brighter headlamp, the NAO, uses one 18650 battery, and it's a much bigger light than the headlamps that use the CORE battery. With current technology, you need 15 to 18 18650s to run a light at 300 lumens for 60 hours.
Regulated lights, when used with alkalines/NiMH/one-time use lithium batteries, will only run in regulation with a constant light level when the batteries still have enough energy to supply the current and voltage needed. That might not be very long with 3 AAA alkaline batteries feeding 300 lumens. After the batteries are no longer able to supply the current/voltage to maintain the high setting, the light might switch to a lower regulated level (like a medium or low) and then run at that lower level until doesn't get enough current/voltage to sustain that, and then go the next lower level. When they run out of regulated levels, it might finally go into an unregulated level until the batteries run out. Or it's possible that after that initial regulated period of 300 lumens ends, the light switches immediately to unregulated operation until the batteries run out. Either way, if the Actik really runs 60 hours on alkalines, maybe only the first 60 minutes or so might be regulated operation if you are running it at 300 lumens, and the rest of the 60 hours would be unregulated operation. That's probably why the medium and high have the same 60 hour run time - the runtimes both round to about 60 hours because it is in unregulated operation for 95+% of the runtime for both.
The CORE battery, since it is Li-ion, can't be drained below a certain cut off voltage, or it will be permanently damaged, so it will shut off well before (2 hrs on high) it gets as dim the light you would be getting from 3 AAAs near the end of their runtime.
With 3 AAAs, you get 800 mAh capacity at 3.6V with Eneloops or similar low-discharge NiMH batteries, and less with alkaline batteries, at least with high discharge currents. The CORE battery for the Actik is 1250 mAh at presumably 3.7 V nominal, so it's probably about 50% better than Eneloops. If you go with expensive one-time use lithium batteries, you can beat the CORE's capacity. The Energizer Lithiums are 1250 mAh, and 1.5 V nominal, but actually start at 1.7 V, so 3x1.7= 5.1 V.
In comparison, one decent quality 18650 can have 2600 to 3400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V, so the CORE is less than half the capacity of a single 18650. That makes sense, because Petzl's brighter headlamp, the NAO, uses one 18650 battery, and it's a much bigger light than the headlamps that use the CORE battery. With current technology, you need 15 to 18 18650s to run a light at 300 lumens for 60 hours.
Regulated lights, when used with alkalines/NiMH/one-time use lithium batteries, will only run in regulation with a constant light level when the batteries still have enough energy to supply the current and voltage needed. That might not be very long with 3 AAA alkaline batteries feeding 300 lumens. After the batteries are no longer able to supply the current/voltage to maintain the high setting, the light might switch to a lower regulated level (like a medium or low) and then run at that lower level until doesn't get enough current/voltage to sustain that, and then go the next lower level. When they run out of regulated levels, it might finally go into an unregulated level until the batteries run out. Or it's possible that after that initial regulated period of 300 lumens ends, the light switches immediately to unregulated operation until the batteries run out. Either way, if the Actik really runs 60 hours on alkalines, maybe only the first 60 minutes or so might be regulated operation if you are running it at 300 lumens, and the rest of the 60 hours would be unregulated operation. That's probably why the medium and high have the same 60 hour run time - the runtimes both round to about 60 hours because it is in unregulated operation for 95+% of the runtime for both.
The CORE battery, since it is Li-ion, can't be drained below a certain cut off voltage, or it will be permanently damaged, so it will shut off well before (2 hrs on high) it gets as dim the light you would be getting from 3 AAAs near the end of their runtime.
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OldmanRon
Newly Enlightened
Hi Xcandrew,
Thank you for the detailed response. However, what you speculate about in your second-last paragraph "flies in the face of" everything that Petzl says online about their regulated headlamps. Just Google Petzl and Active and carefully (in a lawyer-like manner 😛 ) read what they say. You will get a lot of hits, but here's a nice little video.
https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/ACTIVE-headlamps#/How-to-choose?
They say "with stable output during the entire burn time" but seem to include hours and hours of very low reserve time in the "high" chart for the AAA Actik ... not fair!
EDIT: However, in that video they do provide a two-line graph comparing the burn times/profiles of their Classic Regular (unregulated) technology and their Active (regulated) technology. The former (with the black line) shows what you would expect ... a graceful curve sweeping down and to the right, levelling-off just above the Y-axis (time) and heading East to parts unknown. The red (Active, regulated) line starts at the same point on the X-axis and heads due East but after a while (when it is almost right above the point where the black line has flattened-out just above the Y-axis) the red line plummets almost straight down to the same point as the black line ... and ... almost hand-in-hand and really pooped, they mosey on east to parts unknown until they quietly expire. A non-asymptote situation ...
Bottom-line ... the runtime chart that they provide (or provided) for the battery-powered Tikka Actik is (or was) unintentionally deceptive or a typo. I say this based on that old chestnut of law ... "based on what a reasonable person might do/think/believe/perceive in that situation". The line graph apparently tells the true story.
I contacted a fellow that I know (based on a prior question) at Petzl in Utah, but got an out-of-office" response. I am curious to see what he says today. My curiosity is heightened by the fact that somebody quickly disabled both links (to the two runtime charts) in my original posts.
Thanks again.
Ron
Thank you for the detailed response. However, what you speculate about in your second-last paragraph "flies in the face of" everything that Petzl says online about their regulated headlamps. Just Google Petzl and Active and carefully (in a lawyer-like manner 😛 ) read what they say. You will get a lot of hits, but here's a nice little video.
https://www.petzl.com/NL/en/Sport/ACTIVE-headlamps#/How-to-choose?
They say "with stable output during the entire burn time" but seem to include hours and hours of very low reserve time in the "high" chart for the AAA Actik ... not fair!
EDIT: However, in that video they do provide a two-line graph comparing the burn times/profiles of their Classic Regular (unregulated) technology and their Active (regulated) technology. The former (with the black line) shows what you would expect ... a graceful curve sweeping down and to the right, levelling-off just above the Y-axis (time) and heading East to parts unknown. The red (Active, regulated) line starts at the same point on the X-axis and heads due East but after a while (when it is almost right above the point where the black line has flattened-out just above the Y-axis) the red line plummets almost straight down to the same point as the black line ... and ... almost hand-in-hand and really pooped, they mosey on east to parts unknown until they quietly expire. A non-asymptote situation ...
Bottom-line ... the runtime chart that they provide (or provided) for the battery-powered Tikka Actik is (or was) unintentionally deceptive or a typo. I say this based on that old chestnut of law ... "based on what a reasonable person might do/think/believe/perceive in that situation". The line graph apparently tells the true story.
I contacted a fellow that I know (based on a prior question) at Petzl in Utah, but got an out-of-office" response. I am curious to see what he says today. My curiosity is heightened by the fact that somebody quickly disabled both links (to the two runtime charts) in my original posts.
Thanks again.
Ron
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carrot
Flashaholic
I have one of the new Tikkas. It's great.
It isn't waterproof but in my testing it is very water resistant and will suffer no long term effects from submersion.
The Reactik is great too. I now have two of them and I use them all the time. Petzl's Active Lighting technology makes these by far and away preferable to the Zebralights that I keep buying.
Petzl Customer Service has also been nothing short of phenomenal for me when I had some lithium batteries wear out.
It isn't waterproof but in my testing it is very water resistant and will suffer no long term effects from submersion.
The Reactik is great too. I now have two of them and I use them all the time. Petzl's Active Lighting technology makes these by far and away preferable to the Zebralights that I keep buying.
Petzl Customer Service has also been nothing short of phenomenal for me when I had some lithium batteries wear out.
I highly doubt Petzl is reacting to this thread. There's a good chance no one there reads this forum. There are still pages for the Actik and Actik Core on the Petzl website, with the tables with runtimes.
The graphs in the video show what I expect. After the regulated runtime can no longer be held, it drops to an unregulated low level. They call this the reserve, and that runs for about 60 hrs. I wouldn't look too closely at the graphs. They don't have numbers on them.
I agree that the runtime for battery operation is misleading. This has always been an issue with many different lighting companies since... forever. I've noticed that some companies over the years have switched back and forth between stating regulated runtimes and total runtime. They sometimes want to spell it out by explaining regulated runtimes and using those specs. Other times they don't want to look bad in comparison with other companies that don't do it that way, and change back to stating total runtime. If you think about it, a total runtime spec for an unregulated light is just as misleading.
The graphs in the video show what I expect. After the regulated runtime can no longer be held, it drops to an unregulated low level. They call this the reserve, and that runs for about 60 hrs. I wouldn't look too closely at the graphs. They don't have numbers on them.
I agree that the runtime for battery operation is misleading. This has always been an issue with many different lighting companies since... forever. I've noticed that some companies over the years have switched back and forth between stating regulated runtimes and total runtime. They sometimes want to spell it out by explaining regulated runtimes and using those specs. Other times they don't want to look bad in comparison with other companies that don't do it that way, and change back to stating total runtime. If you think about it, a total runtime spec for an unregulated light is just as misleading.
marinemaster
Flashlight Enthusiast
I thought this topic was about a well established brand that has a rock solid reliability. Not only that but talk about the 2017 models. Is a light, it turns on and do what you need. Simple. The requirement is turn on. So what if is not perfect and xyz lumens is 10 less or whatever or if it does not run 72 hours straight at the same brightness.
Really I think one should actually spend the money, buy the actual light, use it extensively and then criticize it constructively.
Really I think one should actually spend the money, buy the actual light, use it extensively and then criticize it constructively.
charles is great
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2017
- Messages
- 7
I've had the Actik since November, and yeah at the 300 lumen setting it wouldn't last more than a couple hours I'm guessing. I use Eneloops so I've never bothered actually testing as I just recharge my batteries anyway.
Anyways they are great lights, having 300 lumens in a headlamp, but if you are sensitive to PWM flicker that will annoy you at the 100 lumen setting. It's not noticeable (or not even present, probably) at the 300 lumen setting. I've emailed Petzl U.S. about it and they don't seem to be aware of PWM or if any their products use it, which is a bit disappointing.
Anyways they are great lights, having 300 lumens in a headlamp, but if you are sensitive to PWM flicker that will annoy you at the 100 lumen setting. It's not noticeable (or not even present, probably) at the 300 lumen setting. I've emailed Petzl U.S. about it and they don't seem to be aware of PWM or if any their products use it, which is a bit disappointing.
FlashlightR
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2015
- Messages
- 93
I really like the design of the (new) Petzl headlights. I think the good priced Petzl lights are perfect for a backup light. I hoped for better pwm free electronics in the new batches... very strange that they don't know about the pwm...
I am very sensitive to pwm so I think it is a no go for me....
I am very sensitive to pwm so I think it is a no go for me....
