New trend in high-beam etiquette: don't turn them off, ever.

[idleprocess]

Same here in America. A proper study of the matter by the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute found more drivers use their fog lamps in clear/dry weather than in foul weather! They are mostly used as fashion accessories (or perhaps it's a case of "I paid for 'em, so I'm gonna use 'em!", or even "I don't know what this switch does, but I paid for it, so I'm gonna use it!").

I often use my vehicle's fog lamps when driving through my neighborhood at night (speed limit 25MPH) because there are many neighborhood cats and dogs; the additional shoulder lighting has allowed me to spot them on many occasions before they darted out in front of the vehicle.

Otherwise, they seem to add no value when driving in fair weather since the area they illuminate is too close for driving at speed.

 

[iroc409]

The variability of answers in this thread illustrates a real problem in the US/Canada. Many of the answers so far recommend switching to low beam at a longer distance than is necessary to avoid dangerous glare. The driver who dims prematurely is doing himself a great disservice as far as safety is concerned; properly-aimed U.S. low beams cannot provide adequate seeing distance for speeds greater than about 40 to 45 miles per hour. Most of us speed along much faster than that with low beams. Not as much of a problem on a controlled-access freeway with less chance of an encounter with an animal (or whatever) and lots of cars in front of you to extend the effective seeing range, but using low beams when not in traffic and driving faster than 40 is really unsafe.

This is what I was thinking about, and why I asked the question. Like you say, it's not so bad when there are cars in front of you that "extend" your distance, but without it becomes a little uncomfortable. Maybe that's why everyone just drives with their brights on?

Also, on my vehicle, the fog lights don't have any other positive indication other than the button is pressed (2009). However, it's a push-on/off, so you can't really tell in a dark interior what position the switch is in. The only illumination on the switch is just to tell where the switch is.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Effectively, yes.

So legally, no?

 

[LeanBurn]

I am polite with my lights, because that is the way I like to be treated and safety is an element not uppermost in todays drivers minds.

Two variables that have not been brought up is:
1) the driver is unaware that they have their high beams on...these would be the same caliber of drivers that leave their turn indicators on for miles and miles.
2) the aged driver who just can't see without their high beams on.

Unfortunately with the age demographic of drivers on the road these two issues are not going to go away.

 

[-Virgil-]

So legally, no?

Fog lamps aren't Federally regulated in the US. International ECE regulations as well as the SAE standards most states explicitly or implicitly adhere to do require a telltale.

 

[-Virgil-]

1) the driver is unaware that they have their high beams on...these would be the same caliber of drivers that leave their turn indicators on for miles and miles.
2) the aged driver who just can't see without their high beams on.

3) The driver of a vehicle with a dimmer switch easily knocked to the high beam position in the course of operating the turn signal or knocking the lever inadvertently while steering. The "push forward for high beam, pull back for low beam" type of switch seems most prone to this, and is unfortunately common. The older "pull to toggle from low to high or high to low" switch was not at all prone to it.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

LOL! We have both of those dimmers, as well as the one I consider "old," which is a button on the floor to the left of the clutch.

I'm not averse to reminding the other driver he's on high, but I will flick up and down so quickly that the bulbs don't really come up to brightness to blind him - just a quick friendly reminder. After all, it's not as if I've never in my life forgotten.

When I was a lot younger and had rally bulbs in the Cibie lights on my 1978 Saab 99 Turbo, I generally dimmed if I saw other lights on the road - red or white. With 80/100 H4's, 100W H1's and 100w H2's in the Oscar+ driving lights, I had enough range that I really didn't want to dazzle anyone. I think I never got hassled about my lights because I kept them aimed carefully and always dimmed in plenty of time. (I did very rarely get flashed over my fogs, not because they produced glare, but because few people ran fogs lights at the time and just seeing four white lights set them off).

Once or twice only, I lost my temper when a polite reminder or two wouldn't get the other guy to dim. Swung front toward right edge of road a bit, than angled back toward center, hit High just as my nose pointed straight at the oncoming car. But when I saw the other guy so blinded that he STOPPED, I realized that 600 watts of long range halogen lights could be dangerous. It's not worth making some bozo run off the road just because he's a jerk. He'll be past in a few seconds anyway. Maybe I've mellowed with age. Maybe I scraped up too many accidents during my VFD years...

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Fog lamps aren't Federally regulated in the US. International ECE regulations as well as the SAE standards most states explicitly or implicitly adhere to do require a telltale.

I'll make sure any future retrofits get an indicator, and will add one to the existing retrofits the next time I'm doing work under the dash.

 

[rushnrockt]

The part that bugs me is that flashing high beams at people does nothing. I am at about 1 for 50 with people actually dimming their lights after coming at me with high beams. For some weird reason, Hyundai Elantras of this and last generation are the most common perpetrators in Phoenix. I drive a 2005 Elantra and the controls are typical, so there is no excuse for some funky EU setup.

 

[-Virgil-]

I drive a 2005 Elantra and the controls are typical, so there is no excuse for some funky EU setup.

Huh?

 

[JakeGMCHD]

I would have to say I like my Jeep Grand Cherokee with the auto function for the High Beams it takes all the guessing out of it. The system turns on the high beams over 25 mph and monitors for vehicles ahead.

 

[iroc409]

I almost bought a 1957 Cadillac that had auto-dimming headlights. Man, that car was cool. Hidden fuel cap, headliner AC... I was young, and it would have been too much of a project for my wallet at the time.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I would have to say I like my Jeep Grand Cherokee with the auto function for the High Beams it takes all the guessing out of it. The system turns on the high beams over 25 mph and monitors for vehicles ahead.

That's the sort of thing I'd disable on my own car. I might briefly use the high beams at such a low speed, but low beams should certainly be fine up to maybe 35mph (51 feet per second). Most of the streets I drive on with limits between 25 and 35 also have streetlights, so high beams are pretty much unneeded.

There are certain things that a car should be allowed to do for you (anti-lock braking, traction control, lane-departure warning), and there are certain things that the driver should know how to do on their own (operate their headlamps properly, signal their turns, use windshield wipers when needed, drive at a safe speed) without the vehicle overriding their decisions.

 

[-Virgil-]

I would like to be able to agree with you, but I can't. The most dangerous part of the traffic system is the driver, because drivers are human and make errors with consequences. People simply do not use their vehicles' lights correctly. They mostly don't use their high beams when they should, and on the occasion they do use their high beams when they should, they fail to dim them to low beam when they should. A system that can accurately select low or high beam in accordance with the dynamic traffic conditions gives a much better result in terms of the correct lights being used for the situation, and the resultant safety benefit.

However, I do agree with you that a poorly-implemented system is aggravating and unhelpful -- no matter what kind of system it might be (ABS, automatic headlight beam selector, etc).

Anyway, it's worth getting used to vehicle- rather than driver-centric control of the light beam distribution; they are doing some really cool stuff in Europe with camera-driven dynamic always-on high beams that shadow other road users' eyes out of the beam pattern while leaving everything else fully lit up: high beam seeing with low beam glare. US regs don't permit this kind of system (yet?).

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I would like to be able to agree with you, but I can't. The most dangerous part of the traffic system is the driver, because drivers are human and make errors with consequences. People simply do not use their vehicles' lights correctly. They mostly don't use their high beams when they should, and on the occasion they do use their high beams when they should, they fail to dim them to low beam when they should. A system that can accurately select low or high beam in accordance with the dynamic traffic conditions gives a much better result in terms of the correct lights being used for the situation, and the resultant safety benefit.

Key word being "accurately", of course. Drivers should also be educated and tested on their education. (Of course, they can pass a test, and then do stupid stuff *anyway*, but there's only so much we can do.)

However, I do agree with you that a poorly-implemented system is aggravating and unhelpful -- no matter what kind of system it might be (ABS, automatic headlight beam selector, etc).

The "twilight sentinel" on my Corolla was somewhat annoying, and it didn't give me much choice at all. I could turn the lights ON at any time, but I couldn't turn them off once they came on without shutting off the ignition.

I like some of the idea of these dynamic lighting systems-- I just wonder what people will do when they climb in a car that doesn't have those things. We already see people going down the highway with just their DRLs on, because they don't know what that yellow lamp in the instrument cluster means, and don't realize that not even the parking lights are on. Probably too busy texting to notice.

Regardless of the vehicle equipment, drivers need to be fully involved and aware of the whole driving process.



Anyway, it's worth getting used to vehicle- rather than driver-centric control of the light beam distribution; they are doing some really cool stuff in Europe with camera-driven dynamic always-on high beams that shadow other road users' eyes out of the beam pattern while leaving everything else fully lit up: high beam seeing with low beam glare. US regs don't permit this kind of system (yet?).[/QUOTE]

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Originally Posted by JakeGMCHD I would have to say I like my Jeep Grand Cherokee with the auto function for the High Beams it takes all the guessing out of it. The system turns on the high beams over 25 mph and monitors for vehicles ahead.

That sounds really cool - sounds -- but I don't think I could ever bring myself to trust it. I believe Cadillac introduced their "Twilight Sentinel" automatic dimming in the late 1950's. But it did not earn a good reputation. I think there are too many variables in external light to trust a photocell to dim at a certain level of "oncoming" light.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I like the cars of the past, where I have a light switch and I decide when to turn the lghts on or off, and I decide when to use High or Low. Heck, I even like those cars with three pedals on the floor (not counting the floor dimmer and the starter pedal on the really old ones).

Alaric Darconville has it right. This is the bottom line:

Regardless of the vehicle equipment, drivers need to be fully involved and aware of the whole driving process.

 

[TheExpert]

I don't know if I am just being sensitive but here in PA seems like no body cares if they blind you or not, but when I go down south they are much more polite overall in driving, is this just me?

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

That sounds really cool - sounds -- but I don't think I could ever bring myself to trust it. I believe Cadillac introduced their "Twilight Sentinel" automatic dimming in the late 1950's. But it did not earn a good reputation. I think there are too many variables in external light to trust a photocell to dim at a certain level of "oncoming" light.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I like the cars of the past, where I have a light switch and I decide when to turn the lghts on or off, and I decide when to use High or Low. Heck, I even like those cars with three pedals on the floor (not counting the floor dimmer and the starter pedal on the really old ones).

Alaric Darconville has it right. This is the bottom line:

This sums up my opinion as well, from wanting to be in control of the vehicle to preferring manual transmissions to agreeing with A-D that people just plain need to pay attention.

 

[alpg88]

i don't care if someone has his fogs 24\7, don't care if he has low beams when he should have high beams on, they don't blind me, high beams do, unfortunatly there is no enforcment of any high beam law around where i live, you will be pulled over if your parking light is out, but you can blind everyone, cops wont stop you. we can talk all we want what is legal and what is not, at the end of the day, laws that are not enforced, aren't complied with. that is the fact.

 

[mikered30]

I don't know if I am just being sensitive but here in PA seems like no body cares if they blind you or not, but when I go down south they are much more polite overall in driving, is this just me?

Something weird about PA drivers, I have noticed a big increase in not dimming high beams in PA.