Newbie Questions - Military Deployment

[yaesumofo]

Sounds like a job for the surefire 6P or g2 and a Malkoff drop in.
Good thing you canceled that deal extreme order. it may have taken a long time to get to you.

The only down side to the Malkoff is that they will only work for about 90 minutes before requiring a battery replacement.
The upside is every one of your other requirements are fulfilled.
The fact is that Surefire builds a top grade USA made flashlight which will not fail you in your moment of need. They are in use with armed forces, police, fire, and medic units world wide.
The total cost of a 6P and a Malkoff drop in is about $115.00 You may even be able to get a special military discount if you ask.

I personally own this setup and have no problem recommending it for extreme use.

The Fenix T1 is another light which comes highly recommended. it is extremely Heavy duty there was a stress test done on one in which a light was abused beyond anything that would be considered reasonable and the light still functioned.
This is a very bright light.
it is Chinese made and sells for $70 +-.

Both of these lights run on 123a cells
Rechargeable batteries are available but I do not recommend them for your particular use. if a battery dies in the field you do not want to be worried about the battery's. toss and reload.
If there is a question about if these will be available in the field bring your own. they cost 1 each.

keep your head down
Yaesumofo

 

[ltiu]

Yes, we could get AA's in local places, but I always carried enough spares that it never came to that.

I'm presently working under the assumption that if the CR123's provide benefit in terms of brightness and size (is this a true assumption), I'm willing to do what I need to do to get them.

I just sent several emails to find out if CR123A's are available.

Definitely, from a performance perspective, CR123A will give you an edge over regular AA batteries in terms of brigthness, power to weight ratio and runtime.

Just make sure you are well supplied with CR123A or else your expensive bright flashlights will be useless without the proper batteries in the middle of nowhere when you need it the most.

 

[ltiu]

Once you get all your flashlights and before you ship out, make sure to test and retest all your lights and abuse them a bit. Make sure if they have defects that you spot them while still at home and can still do something about it.

Stay safe and say hello to the Canadians there for me , eh.

 

[mrvilla]

Just out of curiosity, of the criterias you listed, how many of those would you say is fulfilled by the much loved Gerber you had in the previous deployment.

This is just to give some quantitative idea to what you consider as very bright. Some of us are a little nuts here and very bright could be a WW2 AAA serach light...

The Gerber was the best light anybody had at the time. I can't clearly explain it, but the whiteness of the beam seemed to be able to assist in seeing things that the yellowness of the beams of other lights seemed to obfuscate.

The Gerber was the best thing going in my unit at the time... and it better met the criteria than any other light present... but the reason I came here is to take it to the next level.

I'll always love that Gerber for what it did for us (I'm considering mounting the 'one' I have in a frame) .... but I'm very ready to get attached to a better light..

 

[armycamel]

As a guy experienced with the Army supply system, CR123A batteries are readily available. As long as you have a knowledgeable supply sergeant, they should be able to square you away. PM me so we can talk off-line if you have some more questions.

 

[Lightraven]

One problem with alkaline batteries like AA is poor or no performance at low temperatures. I learned this during a night exercise at Fort Lewis when my Mini Mag with brand new batteries stopped working due to cold.

Now, you could either get a CR123A lithium based flashlight or have a few sets of Energizer AA Lithium batteries to use in cold weather.

 

[mrvilla]

Once you get all your flashlights and before you ship out, make sure to test and retest all your lights and abuse them a bit. Make sure if they have defects that you spot them while still at home and can still do something about it.

Stay safe and say hello to the Canadians there for me , eh.

I love the Canadian military.

I've worked beside them on three occasions.

Pragmatic (more so than the US I fear), smart, well trained, reliable.....

People would be surprised at how many military forces can't be counted on when it gets hot.... Canadian's, UK, NZ, AUS >> I'm confident fighting beside them any day of the week. I won't mention the others who will help to get you killed... (off topic chatter stop)

Good points on testing the lights. Thank you.

 

[Blue72]

When depending your life on a light for combat do yourself a favor and get a surefire g2l its already proven itself many times over.

 

[mrvilla]

As a guy experienced with the Army supply system, CR123A batteries are readily available. As long as you have a knowledgeable supply sergeant, they should be able to square you away. PM me so we can talk off-line if you have some more questions.

Ah, good -- experience speaks.

Thanks armycamel, that was my assumption.

We will be attached to a SOCOM element, so supply should not be an issue.

 

[mrvilla]

One problem with alkaline batteries like AA is poor or no performance at low temperatures. I learned this during a night exercise at Fort Lewis when my Mini Mag with brand new batteries stopped working due to cold.

Now, you could either get a CR123A lithium based flashlight or have a few sets of Energizer AA Lithium batteries to use in cold weather.

Now this is good information - or topic for clarification.

Can I get verification that CR123A's operate more effectively in cold weather (or hot weather) than AA's?

I have a couple of Mini Mag's like many in the military do....thank God I found the Gerber... Again, I know there is apparently better, but Gerber was instrumental in making a difference at the time -- and much better than the Mini Mag's.

 

[mrvilla]

Sounds like a job for the surefire 6P or g2 and a Malkoff drop in.
Good thing you canceled that deal extreme order. it may have taken a long time to get to you.

The only down side to the Malkoff is that they will only work for about 90 minutes before requiring a battery replacement.
The upside is every one of your other requirements are fulfilled.
The fact is that Surefire builds a top grade USA made flashlight which will not fail you in your moment of need. They are in use with armed forces, police, fire, and medic units world wide.
The total cost of a 6P and a Malkoff drop in is about $115.00 You may even be able to get a special military discount if you ask.

I personally own this setup and have no problem recommending it for extreme use.

The Fenix T1 is another light which comes highly recommended. it is extremely Heavy duty there was a stress test done on one in which a light was abused beyond anything that would be considered reasonable and the light still functioned.
This is a very bright light.
it is Chinese made and sells for $70 +-.

Both of these lights run on 123a cells
Rechargeable batteries are available but I do not recommend them for your particular use. if a battery dies in the field you do not want to be worried about the battery's. toss and reload.
If there is a question about if these will be available in the field bring your own. they cost 1 each.

keep your head down
Yaesumofo

Good detailed info. Thank you.

So is it correct that the lights I guessed at in my order were not good choices?

 

[Blue72]

Here are testimonials that no other flashlight company has, from your fellow troops. The decision is easy. I want you to come home safe get a surefire.


http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/sesent/00/keyrf5/96/strfnbr/6

 

[nickz]

I have a surefire G2L and it is a great little light. Personally I could recommend the G2L and a C2 for a couple of reasons. First thing I would do is take the head from the G2L and place it on the surefire C2 for a C2L configuration. By doing this you will have a light that is very tough AND it has a nice lanyard and attachment point included along with a pocket clip for easier access than digging in your pocket for the G2L. I would then place the head from the C2 onto the G2L and keep that stowed away in case it is needed. This would result in a nice setup that would net you as follows:

C2L (an LED version of this light is not availabe to buy. It must be assembled from parts from a G2L or a 6P LED)- 12 hours of runtime on a single set of cells. Optimum brightness would be for about 4 hours of that time with slowly diminishing output after that. A set of cells that will barely light or not even light an incan will still put out decent light from this setup.

G2 (what would be left after taking the LED head from the G2L and putting the C2 incan head on it) - 1 hour of runtime from a set of cells. Used cells that will no longer light up this light can be dropped into the C2L if needed and still give decent performance in the light in an emergency situation or to just get every last drop of energy out of the cells.

Another note to add for the C2L or the off the shelf G2L or 6P LED is that they can be powered by a single protected 17670 cell if you want a rechargeable solution. This way you could have several 17670 cells packed along with you to power the LED light and have CR123's packed along also in case you run out of charged 17670 cells before you can get somewhere to recharge. This solution would still allow you to use the light in the event that there were no CR123's available for some reason.

Keep in mind, the single 17670 cell will not operate the incan bulb assembly that would be installed in the G2. You could however look into some of the lumens factory bulbs as they will allow you to use a single 17670 cell and properly power the light.

IF you do decide to use the Li Ion 17670 cells, I recommend buying AW's protected cells along with a good charger. Read up on the forums about the safety issues involved in using these cells and read up on the proper useage of the cells as if used improperly they can be very dangerous.

 

[qadsan]

I also think the Surefire G2 Led would be a very good choice. They're tough, bright, proven, etc, but you'll need 123 batteries. The Surefire 6P led is yet another good choice to check out. You won't go wrong with a Surefire light :thumbsup:

If availability of 123 batteries is a large issue and you have plenty of AA batteries, then consider checking out the NiteCore Defender Infinity light sold at Tad Gear. Maybe they can work out a special price for you guys. Here's the link...

http://tadgear.com/x-treme%20gear/flashlights%20main/defender_infinity.htm

These lights were recently introduced, so there's really no history on them other than the couple hundred that were recently delivered to CPF'rs within the last couple weeks. This light is not yet proven in the field, but they appear to be a very nice light from the two that I own and they were designed with durability in mind. It's my understanding there are some Chinese police agencies who have ordered them for duty use.

This light is VERY bright for simply using a single AA battery and the battery life is very good, especially when used at lower levels. The brightness has a wide range of adjustment with a decent low level. You can program the light for a user defined setting that can quickly be accessed by twisting the barrel of the light. I have my user defined setting programmed at a much lower level which is how I mostly use this light, but I can simply twist the barrel 1/4 turn and its back to full output. This light also has a strobe mode if that interests you.

This light also supports multiple battery types (alkaline AA, Lithium AA / L91 and the 14500 rechargeable lithium battery). If cold weather will be an issue, you can use lithium AA's. If you can recharge batteries, then the 14500 battery is yet another choice.

The beam of this light has a good size hot spot and good spill. This light has a nice feel to it and its small enough to easily fit in pockets. It also comes with a nice lanyard, extra buttons, extra o-rings, etc. It has a nice forward clicky that you can use for signaling, which might come in handy for you. I don't like reverse clicky switches that come with many of the Chinese lights, so it was very nice to see this light come with a nice forward clicky button like the Surefire 6PD, etc. There are several reviews of this light posted on the internet which you can find via Google if you want to read more about it.


If money wasn't an object, then I'd suggest looking at the Novatac 120 series lights. These American made lights with lifetime warranties are super durable and very functional. The Novatac lights are my absolute favorite lights to carry and they get more use than any other light I own. Check out www.novatac.com for more info and you can google the word Novatac for reviews, etc.

Some other 123 lights you may want to look at are made by Wolf Eyes and Dereelight. Both are reputable overseas companies and both make higher quality lights that are durable.

 

[X Racer]

I'll recommend a Surefire G2/C2/6P with a Malkoff or Bug Out Gear Q5 dropin. These will be durable, provide a stupid amount of light, and have decent battery life as well.

The Novatac 120T is also a good option.

 

[NotRegulated]

There have been many good suggestions here.

Considering the environment mrvilla is going to be in, he will most likely be wearing gloves often. (mrvilla, correct me if I am wrong!)

One facet that hasn't been mentioned is the use of small lights (or tools) with gloves on. Some of the smaller lights are much more difficult to operate with gloves on. My personal preference are lights no smaller than a 2x123 form factor when gloves are worn. Additionally, some of the metal bodied lights are slippery when wearing gloves. The Nitrolon on the Surefire G2L/G2 seems easier to grasp and retain in the hand.

 

[yaesumofo]

Let's just say that they were uninformed choices.
Somebody here mentioned the Surefire G2. They say they prefer it to an all metal light due to the grip on the body of the light. In this regard I agree with this choice.
Surefire recently came out with a NEW light. The G2L this is an led G2.
The run time on this light is great. the price is terrific as well.
Personally I would also recommend the G2L as a base of host for a Malkoff drop in. The reason I recommend this is because when you see how bright the Malkoff unit is in comparison to the stock p60L (the stock led unit which comes with the G2L) you will most likely be willing to give up some run time in favor of a MUCH brighter beam.

I also recommend a spares carrier. This is a surefire product which holds 6 batteries and a spare globe. This unit is extremely heavy duty ready for ANYTHING. water proof crush proof (to a point) you need to be able to carry extra batteries safely. The surefire spares carrier lets you do this.
So if you buy a G2L and a spares carrier as well as a Malkoff drop in unit. you can store the stock P60L led globe and 6 batteries.
This gives you battery and lamp storage in a compact package.
https://surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/255/prrfnbr/251/SC1-Spares-Carrier-

http://surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/24460/sesent/00

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18


Above are the links to these products.
the total for all three is in the range of $130.00 not bad for a cutting edge flashlight package.
A holster which is compatible with your equipment is highly recommended. This is true regardless of the light you decide upon.

Remember to keep your head down.
Yaesumofo

Good detailed info. Thank you.

So is it correct that the lights I guessed at in my order were not good choices?

 

[Handlobraesing]

I was in Iraq and from my experience a Fenix light that uses common AAs would be a great idea. I think that something like and L2D CE would be a excellent light to have out there.
If you regularly have access to electrical power taking some eneloops to power up your lights would also be a good idea.
The Nitecore DI that just came out would also be a very nice light since it's bright and it uses one common AA. The only downside with them is that they are expensive at $80 per light.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=170991

Your price range probably leves Surefire lights out of the question.

I'd go with Streamlight 4AA Luxeon. It's a time-proven light on CPF. Very durable, water resistant(submersion, but not diving) and runs for 2-3 hours on standard alkaline batteries at full output.

The Fenix L2D CE do not perform very well on alkaline batteries. It would start up at maximum, steadily decline in output and reduce to 50% in 30 minutes and you have to put it on the maximum setting to match the Streamlight 4AA's beam projection.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

 

[stitch_paradox]

So I guess I'm looking for (off the top of my head):

*Non weapons mounted
*Very bright
*Able to be used for hours if necessary
*Won't over heat
*Econonmical
*Dust resistant
*Shock resistant
*Hand held

..I'm sure I'm forgetting a few qualities.

Thank you.

I think what you need is a light with a good throw and a great amount of spill. I would recommend the Malkoff drop ins based on experience ( http://www.malkoffdevices.com/ ). The best thing about this drop ins is they are used with Surefire and Maglite body host, which are both tested as durable and great for rough environment.
The Malkoff M60 (for Surefire) has 2 options the low out out and high output lamps. The low output M60 has 140+ lumens with 4+ hours runtime, while the M60 high output has 235+ lumens with 1+ hour runtime. Both run with CR123 batteries. I like this set up because of if its small size and bright output not to mention a surefire host.
The Maglite drop in is really great IMO, but kinda bulky if you use it with a regular Maglite set up. You get 240+ lumens with an 8+ hour runtime for the 4D Mag set up. Aside from the insanely bright output and long runtime the great thing about this drop in is the versatility and it runs on common batteries. (can run with 2, 3, or 4 cell. the 4 cell is the best IMO) Malkoff also has the same drop in for the C cell Maglite if you want a small lighter light. If you want a shorter lighter D cell set up you can use a 3 cell Maglite with 4 C cell in a tube ( to eliminate the rattle). This looks great especially on a 3 cell camo Maglite. Another thing you can do is a cut down 1 D cell Maglite with 3 aa in a battery holder. You can use the lithium aa for best results.
Other best options that I have seen personally is the Tiablo A9 and Fenix T1. But I haven't used them long enough to vouch for their reliability. regarding your battery inquiry... any lithium battery works best in both hot and cold weather when compared with alkalines. Hope this helps

 

[stitch_paradox]

There have been many good suggestions here.

Considering the environment mrvilla is going to be in, he will most likely be wearing gloves often. (mrvilla, correct me if I am wrong!)

One facet that hasn't been mentioned is the use of small lights (or tools) with gloves on. Some of the smaller lights are much more difficult to operate with gloves on. My personal preference are lights no smaller than a 2x123 form factor when gloves are worn. Additionally, some of the metal bodied lights are slippery when wearing gloves. The Nitrolon on the Surefire G2L/G2 seems easier to grasp and retain in the hand.

This is true actually. Some lights switch are kind difficult to access if you are wearing gloves.