Niwalker MiniMax Nova MM15 (2xMT-G2, 4x18650) REVISED Prototype Review: RUNTIMES+

[plata0190]

They downgraded from 5500 to 5233 lumens or you just called it by the spec?
Then I don't understand why SOS and BEACON are not programmed in max outpu mode, where all other flahslights uses it in this mode, for a simply reason: SOS mode at least is an emergency modality and the flashlight have to use it in the maximum outpu available because you have to be reached and viewed from a long distance. Reflector and LEDs are not able to illuminate in a long throw, but this can be enphatized if the output of these modalities is maximized.

There would not be temperature problems, and if in the case they still be, wouldn't be problems, because the sensor would step the mode down. What do you think?

Other changes seems to be good.

 

[plata0190]

I don't understand why deisigning it with an handle when the output from turbo steps to 2000 lm after only 3.5 mins. In this case the body won't be very hot and the handle is pointless. For example Betty TL2S has similar dimensions and about 6 XM-L2 (4500 lm) but steps down further

 

[zs&tas]

They downgraded from 5500 to 5233 lumens or you just called it by the spec?
Then I don't understand why SOS and BEACON are not programmed in max outpu mode, where all other flahslights uses it in this mode, for a simply reason: SOS mode at least is an emergency modality and the flashlight have to use it in the maximum outpu available because you have to be reached and viewed from a long distance. Reflector and LEDs are not able to illuminate in a long throw, but this can be enphatized if the output of these modalities is maximized.

There would not be temperature problems, and if in the case they still be, wouldn't be problems, because the sensor would step the mode down. What do you think?

Other changes seems to be good.

i dont think i would be able to tell the difference 2 miles away from you if it was 5k or 2k lumens from a visibility point of view, however choosing 2k for these modes greatly increases your emergency runtime which is very important !

 

[zs&tas]

this looks to be one awsome flashlight, good UI with all the modes, really massive brightness, really compact usable design. cant see theres much more anybody could want ?
it makes the upcoming olight SRmini a bit hmmmm pathetic ?

 

[Saquavin]

Thanks for awesome review !
Any idea for the price ?

 

[selfbuilt]

I don't understand why deisigning it with an handle when the output from turbo steps to 2000 lm after only 3.5 mins. In this case the body won't be very hot and the handle is pointless.

No, the handle is a good idea - the light is very hot by 3.5 mins, especially around the head. Even after the step down, you would not find it comfortable for bare hand holding without one.

As for the flashing modes, I think 2000 lumens is fine - a good trade-off in runtime and output (especially for beacon).

And yes, that was a direct quote from Niwalker, hence their official output spec.

 

[plata0190]

I don't think SOS mdoe drops down battery very quickly like a continuous output. Certainly at 2k will last more than a 5k lm, but the most important factor here is not the duration but the visiboiliy at long distances IMHO

 

[RedForest UK]

..but the most important factor here is not the duration but the visiboiliy at long distances IMHO

I'd say it was both, of course at a long distance 5k lumens will be much more visible than 2k, but if you look at the runtime charts it's clear that running at 2k is much more efficient than running at 5k. If you could pick for example 10hrs worth of 5k SOS runtime or 40hrs of 2k then I would certainly go for the 2k for much longer.

 

[plata0190]

Is known how much time a full battery will last in 5k and 2k? Hope Niwalker fix drain battery in standby: it gets down about 25% after only 2 months

 

[RedForest UK]

Well on the 2000-1500 lumen higher mode it does 5hrs 20, and after 5 mins 5000 lumen it then only has enough power left for 2hrs 15 of the same. That suggests that somehow 5 minutes of 5000 lumens equals 3 hours of 2000-1500. That is only 1/36th of the runtime, for 3 times the power, suggesting that the 2k lumen mode is 12 times more efficient than the 5k lumen mode if I have my numbers right. You could then work out runtimes in SOS mode by looking at the proportion of the sequence spent in the ON state.

However that result does seem a bit extreme... I'd be very interested to see how long a single charge will allow it to run in purely the 5000 lumen mode, by simply turning off, leaving to cool a little if necessary and bumping back up to 5000 lumens again until stepdown and adding the total time before the batteries run flat.


I do also have a couple of other questions:

Firstly, is there any sort of low-voltage protection built into the light, or does the cut-off in the runtime charts represent the cells' own protection circuits tripping?

Secondly, is there any way within the current UI of dropping back to the previously used regular mode from the turbo mode without switching the light off and back on again or cycling up from low with a long press?

 

[selfbuilt]

However that result does seem a bit extreme... I'd be very interested to see how long a single charge will allow it to run in purely the 5000 lumen mode, by simply turning off, leaving to cool a little if necessary and bumping back up to 5000 lumens again until stepdown and adding the total time before the batteries run flat.

I agree, the increased efficiency of the ~1500-2000 lumen mode (and the lower modes) is suprising. I may try to do the repeated ~5000-5500 turbo restarts, but this is likely to be hard on the cells (i.e., would be better suited to IMR - and I don't have that many IMRs lying around).

Firstly, is there any sort of low-voltage protection built into the light, or does the cut-off in the runtime charts represent the cells' own protection circuits tripping?

Hard to say for sure, without using unprotected cells (which again, I don't have enough of). My impression is that the Minimax circuit does have internal protection, based on the wording Niwalker has used with me. I will need to check with them to confirm though.

FYI for my runtimes graphs, a drop to zero output (i.e., a line down at the end) indicates the light shut-off on its own. If the line simply trails off, that indicates I manually stopped the run. In this case, the light does shut off - but it's hard to know if the battery or light circuit is the source. I suspect it is the light, since the terminations seem earlier than typical for battery protection circuit cut-off, but I can't tell for certain without unprotected cells.

Secondly, is there any way within the current UI of dropping back to the previously used regular mode from the turbo mode without switching the light off and back on again or cycling up from low with a long press?

Yes - but you need to double-click cycle through the strobe modes to get back to it. If you do, that will return you to whatever mode you were in before accessing Turbo. I don't know how it will be in the revised final interface.

 

[plata0190]

@ RedForest: nice questions. I believe you, but is very strange that in 5k after 4 mins, battery drain is so huge. :huh:
@ selfbuilt: about the first question of RedForest, i would to know if when the battery is low, does LEDs keep working or the MM15 locks and still off with no possibility to return it on not even in low mode, until you replce with charged batts?

And let me know circa at which % does the power indicator turns red?

 

[selfbuilt]

@ RedForest: nice questions. I believe you, but is very strange that in 5k after 4 mins, battery drain is so huge. :huh:

RedForest is correct - my runtimes show the Turbo has reduced efficiency after it steps down. I don't know why - I will re-do that runtime, in case there was some issue with one of the cells. I will also try a re-started run, to see how that compares.

EDIT: I've done the Turbo more runtime 3 times now, and all of them are identical to each other within a couple of mins of total runtime.

@ selfbuilt: about the first question of RedForest, i would to know if when the battery is low, does LEDs keep working or the MM15 locks and still off with no possibility to return it on not even in low mode, until you replce with charged batts?
And let me know circa at which % does the power indicator turns red?

I don't know at what time exactly the red indicator comes on - I am not continuously watching the runs. All I know is that the indicator is red when the batteries are almost exhausted. Once the light has shut-down, it will not re-activate in any mode until the cells are re-charged. I don't know if there are any restrictions on re-activating after the indicator has gone red, but before shut-down.

 

[plata0190]

The fact that MM15 shutsdown and that the user can't keep use it when discarched is bad. Nitecore TM26, Ferei BL09 etc doesn't limit the usage when batts drained but keeping the flashlight running on even. Imho the protect circuit built into the flashlight is pointless because at today day all batteries have a dedicated circuit that cuts battery drain at a lower voltage point. I remember Wiseled did that and found this very unhandy. If you are out for a walk or camping and have drained your batts, always a little bit of light would come be useful

 

[selfbuilt]

I'd be very interested to see how long a single charge will allow it to run in purely the 5000 lumen mode, by simply turning off, leaving to cool a little if necessary and bumping back up to 5000 lumens again until stepdown and adding the total time before the batteries run flat.

Ok, and here we go. On the run below, I re-started the light every 3 mins or so.

Note that I actually let the light cool for ~10 mins between each re-start. I am only ploting the time the light was actually on below, so that you can match up the time scale.

As you can see, the output keeps dropping over time, on successive re-starts. For example, after 30 mins continuous runtime,you are down to ~4000 estimated lumens on re-activation, compared to ~5500 estimated lumens at the start. You also hit ~2000 lumens just before the light shuts-down completely, after ~50 mins. Sorry I can't be more accurate for time, as I accidentally let the light step-down for several minutes before one of the re-starts.

 

[plata0190]

Why it drops down progressively? the first version didn't

 

[selfbuilt]

Why it drops down progressively? the first version didn't

I'm sure it does. This is exactly what you would expect on a light with a direct-drive like runtime pattern (i.e., when re-activating, the output will be lower, commensurate with the reduced voltage of the partially depleted cells)

 

[RedForest UK]

Thanks for testing that selfbuilt. As always you're committed to making your reviews comprehensive, which is what makes them so greatly and widely appreciated :thumbsup:

50 minutes from 5200 to around 3500 isn't bad at all imo, but it makes you question how the runtime on the 2000 lumen mode is cut in half by just the first 5 minute burst if it can go for 10x that runtime before dropping below 50% output.

 

[CUL8R]

selfbuilt,
As always a great review! Thank you. Sort of boggles my mind seeing how each new generation of lights gets superior lumen output on less power than the preceeding gen! For instance, this light finally gets down to the max output of my all-time favorite light (3800 Lumen TM26) after running for over 30 minutes. I know its not 30 continuous minutes of runtime, but still....! And on turbo its initial output is at least 32% greater than the TM26. I still love my TM26, but unless the final version of this light is drastically altered for the worse, I kinda think I'm going to need one. Darn necessities! Between 4-wheeling with my jeep (Just Empty Every Pocket for continuous mods), and "needing" all these new lights for, hmm, experimental purposes, I'm going to need a new source of funds soon!

 

[plata0190]

very nice selfbuilt. @redforest: 50 mins from 5,5k to 3,5k are tested with 2200 mah (if I remember correctly). That sounds that with3400 mah batteries, a full charge have to last plus the half: circa 1 hour and 20 mins
The only thing that's wrong on this flashlight imho, is that when discharged he internally protection circuit shutsdown with not possibility to use it at least in moonlight mode fwhen needed.