Niwalker MiniMax Nova MM15 (2xMT-G2, 4x18650) REVISED Prototype Review: RUNTIMES+

Status
Not open for further replies.

selfbuilt

Flashaholic
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
7,009
Location
Canada
The only thing that's wrong on this flashlight imho, is that when discharged he internally protection circuit shutsdown with not possibility to use it at least in moonlight mode fwhen needed.
No, that's not really it. The indicator turns red before the light shuts-off. This gives you plenty of advance warning to switch down to a lower mode (I just don't know exactly how much warning, since I haven't measured it). Once the light shuts down, the batteries are truly at the point where they should not be activated (i.e., I've measured resting voltages as low as ~2.7V on some cells immediately after shut-down). It thus makes perfect sense that the light won't re-activate at these voltages.

What I don't know - because I don't ever test for this - is at what resting cell voltage a light will not activate. I only know for certain this light won't re-activate after a shut-down occurs, which is entirely consistent with other lights.
 

plata0190

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
423
Location
Italy
Ah ok, if yours cells measured 2.7V when MM15 has shutted down, means that they are fully drained. But maybe the voltage will be higher o 3400 mah? I know that on TM26 when the light come very low, the voltage still be at 3.00V.

I suggest you a thing about the LED indicator to ask Niwalker engineers: what about upgrading it (like Nitecore TM11 and TM15) where the battery condition is indicator is more accurate, for example:
- constant green: 100-50%
- flashing green: less than 50%
- constant red : less than 30%
- slow flashing red or 2 flashes: less than 15%
- fast flashing red: 5% remaining
 

selfbuilt

Flashaholic
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
7,009
Location
Canada
Thanks for testing that selfbuilt. As always you're committed to making your reviews comprehensive, which is what makes them so greatly and widely appreciated :thumbsup:
Looks like I wasn't done yet .... I've gone and measured the behaviour of the light once the switch changes from solid green to solid red. :sweat:

Starting with cells with an average resting voltage of ~3.55V (=/- 0.05V per cell), I ran the light on the "Higher" level for a few mins, until the red switch indicator came on. At this point, I immediately turned the light off and measured the resting voltage of the cells, which were ~3.46V on average (with the lowest cell reading ~3.42V). Keep in mind, the cells are all in series on the Minimax. Also keep in mind that I am reporting resting voltages, after the cells have been pulled (i.e., I am not measuring under load).

I re-installed the cells, and ran the light on the Hi level. The indicator was green initially, as expected. After 8 mins at this Hi level, the indicator went red. I again pulled all the cells immediately, and measured the initial resting voltage as ~3.40V on average (with the lowest cell reading ~3.25V).

I re-installed the cells again, and ran the light on the Med level (with the indicator green initially). After 10 mins at this level, the indicator went red. I again pulled all the cells immediately, and measured the initial resting voltage as ~3.36V on average (with the lowest cell reading ~3.15V).

I re-installed the cells again, and ran the light on the Lo level (with the indicator green initially). After 50 mins at this level, the indicator went red. I again pulled all the cells immediately, and measured the initial resting voltage as ~3.30V on average (with the lowest cell reading ~3.13V).

In my view, this is MORE than sufficient warning to switch down to a lower level. I am sure the light would have run for a quite long time further on Moonlight, but was not prepared to wait and watch. :rolleyes:

Just for kicks, I re-ran the light on Turbo at this point. It shut-off within 4 seconds, and would not reactivate immediately. I pulled the cells, and measured the resting voltage as ~3.29V (lowest cell reading ~3.08V). This is the point at which the light shut-down (well, the resting voltage equivalent at any rate - I don't know what voltage under load it would have been).

I gave the cells a couple of minutes to recover, and could run the light on Turbo for another ~3 seconds, before again experiencing shut-down with no immediate re-activation.

To point to the above is that you need to keep in mind that all cells bounce back from their discharged voltage on their own. As I mentioned earlier, I've measured cells as low as ~2.7V after the light shut-down on Turbo/Higher ... but typically, the cells are ~3.3V by the time I notice the run has stopped and I pop them into the charger. So even if you run the light to the point where it shuts-off, just give it a few mins and try again - it should re-activate.

Once it does, note that there is no restriction on what output level you can select if the light comes back on (i.e., all modes are available). But keep in mind that you likely don't have much runtime left, if the light has already shut-off once.

And that, I think, brings my circuit testing on this revised prototype to a close. :bow: Let's wait and see what the final version looks like ...
 

plata0190

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
423
Location
Italy
Thank you selfbuilt, nice test ;)
Under use cells are always undervolted, when out of running they stabilize at a usual voltage, but i dont' understand in which case you measured 2.70 (when shutted down in low mode, tested immediately after pulled??)
Now finally i know how it works, and the behaviour is not (fortunally) like wiseled, so there is a chanche to reactivate it even if shutted down. Let's keep fingers crossed Niwalker improve or maintain this behaviour. In this case MM15 can run further in moonlight mode even if batts are drained.

PS: what about my suggestion about the indicator? Do you forward this to the manufacturer?
 

selfbuilt

Flashaholic
Joined
May 27, 2006
Messages
7,009
Location
Canada
Niwalker confirms the Minimax does have a built-in circuit to shut down the light, after a good period of red indicator warning (as I have found). You can re-activate after the light shuts down, but you need to pull one of the cells out and re-install.
:wave:
 
Last edited:

DENGOH

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
69
selfbuilt, thank you so much for the review. Looks like this is going to be my first Niwalker.
I am wondering what was the temperature on the flashlight body when it decided to step down.
 

plata0190

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
423
Location
Italy
if drain cells is so high at 5k, secondary modes can also be outputted at more than 2k, for example at 3k or 3.5k.
For all users that uses protected or unprotected 18650s, is more usefull that the integrated MM15 PCB cut the voltage at a lower point like 2.70V instead 3.3/3.3V like now.

In this case 18650 cells will offer you more ruintime and still be proteced by a downvoltage ;)
 

MBentz

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
500
Location
Folsom, CA
This light is going to the top of the wish list. It's so small, I would love if they made a slightly larger version utilizing eight 18650s in a 4s4p* configuration with incredible run time at high outputs.

* - Yes, I have more 18650s than I know what to do with. :)
 

Samlittle

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
322
I love the entire concept of this light. Small with big capacity, with a handle/in a pinch belt clip and lots o light that will make this the near perfect edc for my work. Yikes - more $$ to spend :rolleyes: . :thanks: self built for the review.
 

RCantor

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
593
Location
KC, MO
This light is going to the top of the wish list. It's so small, I would love if they made a slightly larger version utilizing eight 18650s in a 4s4p* configuration with incredible run time at high outputs.

* - Yes, I have more 18650s than I know what to do with. :)

+1 - a screw on extension or alternate longer barrel with another 4 18650s in parallel to the first carrier.
 

MBentz

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
500
Location
Folsom, CA
Seems a bit expensive to be an early adopter.

Plus vinh was going sell a modded version for somewhere around $230 IIRC. Think I'll hold out for a better price when it comes state side.
 

hikingman

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
690
Location
Eureka, CA
Seems a bit expensive to be an early adopter.

Plus vinh was going sell a modded version for somewhere around $230 IIRC. Think I'll hold out for a better price when it comes state side.

They probably are seeing everyone frothing at the mouth to get this thing - doesn't help keep prices down :(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top