NIZN VERSUS NIMH

[45/70]

NiMH wont work the voltage is too low to not use alkalines, till now, but will it be too much power?

A bit OT, but I've never come across a portable heating device like you describe, that was voltage dependent. These devices are purely current driven, and good NiMH/NiCd cells always work better than alkalines, because of this.

I suspect that the NiMH cells you are trying to use, are suffering from voltage depression (which means they can't deliver significant current, as well, except at very low rates) and just can't deliver enough power to create any heat.

Go ahead with your NiZN trial, but NiMH's should blow away alkalines in this type of device, if they are in good shape. You have to be careful not to over discharge NiMH cells in something like this, especially when they're in series, or you'll kill the cells. Recharge, well before they quit working.

In my experience with "D" cell socks, I used 4500mAh NiCd's, and they were much warmer. They didn't last as long as alkalines, but they actually put out some heat.

Dave

EDIT: Awww, Mr H.

 

[r1gm1n]

which charger is better you think for these cells? the Genix 1 hour charger or the genix 5 hour hour charger.

The 1 hour charger (which is really 2 hours to FULL charge) will charge an even or odd number of batteries.

The 5 hour charger will only charge in pairs (an even number of batteries).

Your application calls for 6, so no problem. But, if you ever want to use the batteries in an application that uses 1 or 3 batteries, you will wish you had the 1 hour charger.

Besides bicycle lights and flashlights (which do burn brighter), I use mine in a Canon PowerShot (faster recharge of the flash) and in an electric shaver (zoom-zoom).

 

[Nite]

A bit OT, but I've never come across a portable heating device like you describe, that was voltage dependent. These devices are purely current driven, and good NiMH/NiCd cells always work better than alkalines, because of this.

I suspect that the NiMH cells you are trying to use, are suffering from voltage depression (which means they can't deliver significant current, as well, except at very low rates) and just can't deliver enough power to create any heat.

Go ahead with your NiZN trial, but NiMH's should blow away alkalines in this type of device, if they are in good shape. You have to be careful not to over discharge NiMH cells in something like this, especially when they're in series, or you'll kill the cells. Recharge, well before they quit working.

In my experience with "D" cell socks, I used 4500mAh NiCd's, and they were much warmer. They didn't last as long as alkalines, but they actually put out some heat.

Dave

EDIT: Awww, Mr H.

I think that when I use the NimH AA holder...cells that are fresh...the voltage drops quickly so my runtime is shorter than it should be.

The jacket shuts off automatically when voltage is too low to protect the battery packs. a real problem when nimh cells drop down to 1.2

This is a great jacket...from brookstone.com its a windproof fleece..buy it from the manufacturer (not brookstone) with two rechargeable packs..youll save alot of money. lo medium high..soft fibers that heat up

Ill give the compnay a call..they have great service. last year he said use alkies, not nimh..NiZN would solve this if the voltage wont burn out the controller.

6 Nizn is like 3 volts more to start than nimh

thanks

 

[357mag1]

Under load I've seen the Nizn as high as 1.75 volts but that was straight out of the charger. If they have been charged for a week their resting voltage sets around 1.82 and starts out under load right about 1.65 then settles in for 1.6volts for most of the run.

 

[ThunderCloud]

The 1 hour charger (which is really 2 hours to FULL charge) will charge an even or odd number of batteries.

The 5 hour charger will only charge in pairs (an even number of batteries).

Your application calls for 6, so no problem. But, if you ever want to use the batteries in an application that uses 1 or 3 batteries, you will wish you had the 1 hour charger.

Besides bicycle lights and flashlights (which do burn brighter), I use mine in a Canon PowerShot (faster recharge of the flash) and in an electric shaver (zoom-zoom).

Where did you get that information from?

According to powergenix website, the 3-5 hr charger charges 1-4 AA. Same as the 1 hour charger.

I want to get a set for my Sonicare toothbrush that takes AA's (zoom-zoom).

 

[Mockingbird]

Where did you get that information from?

According to powergenix website, the 3-5 hr charger charges 1-4 AA. Same as the 1 hour charger.

I want to get a set for my Sonicare toothbrush that takes AA's (zoom-zoom).

Apparently there is a new version of the 3-5 hour charger which isn't available yet. If you click on "More" info, it says coming soon. The batteries needed to be charged in pairs in the original slower charger as I understand it.

 

[etc]

Sounds interesting.

I want to try them in FiveMega 3xAA body with Malkoff M30 module.

 

[core]

The batteries needed to be charged in pairs in the original slower charger as I understand it.

And although the faster 1 hour charger accepts odd numbers of cells (got mine just today yay!), this direct quote from the manual has me scratching my head:

"1. Insert 1 to 4 AA or 2 AAA rechargeable NiZN batteries into the battery compartment; batteries should be charged in pairs for optimal performance."

I wonder what that means? If I insert a single cell it won't get charged fully? Because I find it hard to believe it would take longer to charge a single cell. Those are the only two possibilities I can come up with for "optimal performance".

The specifications page reads:
1 or 2 PCS AA 1500mA
3 or 4 PCS AA 750mA

If anyone's got any idea what they're getting at here I'd sure love to hear it -- I was planning on charging a single cell per day, but if that's gonna be bad for my cells then that's another matter.

Ahhhh wait... perhaps they are just trying to say it's best/fastest to not charge more than a pair at a time? That would make sense.

 

[Art]

Where do you buy this?
It would be interesting to use it on Led Lenser lights.. but I cant find AAA of this cells only AA.
Do they hold the charge ok?

 

[357mag1]

I charge single Nizn cells all the time and don't see any performance difference during use than when I charge two or more.

 

[BigusLightus]

I'm using the NiZn's in my 2xAA SolarForce host and driving a Malkoff M30. With only two cells it powers up nice and happy.

I've tried these in several lights with positive results. Not all are brighter due to regulation.

Safe chemistry, higher Voltage, common size, and non toxic. I hate to sound like an advertisement but I really like these cells.

My next test is 6xAA NiZn's in a 2D holder driving an 1185. We shall see...

 

[sunny_nites]

Some more unscientific testing but from a couple of personal observations:

I use a set of the NIZNs in a 3watt Maglite and they work great. I tried them in Xbox 360 controllers and compared to Eneloops, they didn't last as long.

My guess would be that they can put out a lot of current but have a higher self discharge than Enerloops. So, good for high power devices but maybe not the best for low power, long duration uses.

Personally, I think they are great and I hope development continues. Looking forward to the release of AAAs and dare I hope, N cells??

 

[h2xblive]

Does anyone know how to charge these batteries without using the OEM charger?

I would like to use these batteries as an alternative to NiMH and Lithiums with radio controlled vehicles. For example, I could get the power of an 8 cell NiMH battery pack, but only use 6 cells. And no, I don't want to use lithium batteries since I must keep the exact form factor and approximate weight of a 6 AA NiMH battery pack.

I was told it uses CC/CV charge algorithm similar to what Pb and lithium cells require, but I was wondering what any of you guys had to say.

 

[ampdude]

I think the NiZn will eventually take over NiMh as it has higher voltage, watt hour ratings will improve on them, and it seems to have low self discharge rates around that of LSD NiMh cells. I'll at least wait for the 2nd generation though before I dive in.

 

[was.lost.but.now.found]

From PowerGenix FAQ:

1. How quickly do NiZn batteries self-discharge?
   
   The self-discharge rate is the natural loss of battery power or energy capacity when the battery is standing idle and not in use. PowerGenix batteries have a self-discharge rate equal of approximately 8 percent per month at room temperature. This is comparable to other rechargeable batteries.

I was hoping for better, but I guess it's still better than conventional NiMH.

 

[Nite]

From PowerGenix FAQ:



I was hoping for better, but I guess it's still better than conventional NiMH.

Link?

 

[was.lost.but.now.found]

Link?

If you Google "PowerGenix FAQ" it will be the first result.

 

[Nite]

If you Google "PowerGenix FAQ" it will be the first result.

tried that and the first page was mostly links to this thread I'm in now

Ill try again

thanks anyway

btw the first hit is this thread.

 

[core]

Here's the link in question:
http://www.powergenix.com/faq.php

Also if you read the Amazon reviews, NLee the Engineer did some self discharge tests and found them to be better (self-discharge-wise) than conventional NiMH but understandably not as good as LSD.

As an aside though I fail to see why people insist on comparing NiZn to LSD in such a manner. If LSD works for your device, use them. If you want/need the extra voltage then use NiZn. Two different applications.

 

[MarioJP]

I am starting to wonder if the extra voltage from these cells will increase charging performance in my mobile usb charger to charge usb devices. Eneloops are great and they do work well but the voltage sag that I think is hindering the charging performance and could be better if I start using Ni-Zn in my mobile usb charger instead of eneloops to charge most power hungry usb devices like a Iphone or Blackberry. In comparison in mAh side by side. which one would last more??. Eneloop or Ni-Zn??

I know the advertisement says 2500mWh. But how much of that mWh translates to mAh???. Since NiZn has a higher voltage could this affect current draw??. Like would it draw more or less current with higher voltage like 1.6 vs 1.2v in devices like power boosters such as my 4AA mobile to 5V usb charger?