Polarion PH50 vs SUREFIRE BEAST

[Ken J. Good]

The only component does not produce for Polarion-USA distributed HID lights in-house is the Lamp Assembly.

The lamp assembly we do use is a known high-quality unit, German made.

I have replaced 2 for customers in the last 2 years. One of which I believe you are referring to and the other after a user opened the front end and shattered his lamp assembly through sloppy handling. I believe the first one was not a failure but a lack of understanding of what the lamp does when it is energized. The output actually changes shape as the gas moves and is super-heated. I might be a separate incident, but I am speculating.

I have had Special forces guys freeze, heat, drop from helicopter and otherwise abuse our lights. Returned battered and beaten but still functioning.

I have dropped our lights on solid concrete from heights of 6' +numerous times by accident. Still fine.

I just got a light back from a federal law enforcement unit that was dropped at height well above that. The bezel was deformed to the point that the filters would no longer fit on. It had to have been from 10-20'. Light still works...Not pretty, but works fine.

As far as durability in hostile environments, I have sent numerous PF series lights for use on machine guns to a variety of combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan; to date, not one failure/return reported.

As far as the infamous drop testing/parking lot throw of a SF Beast, do it without rubber bumpers and I will be glad to go toe-to-toe with a Beast on durability.

I may just get another Beast to bust (no-pun intended) this myth of non-destructiveness.

I just had a European fire department subject the light to some exceptionally high-heat conditions...To the point I thought for sure the batteries would explode. The Polarion moved right through it and they are now customers.

I am well aware of Surefire's manufacturing and quality control practices as I worked for them for a number of years. It's excellent and proven over time.

That being said, I am also aware of the shortcomings on particular models and runs as well.

EVERY manufacturer faces quality control issues.

In my mind what is also important is what you as a representative of a product line are going to do for the customer when the product does not meet expectations or specifications.

Surefire does a great job on this front as well generally speaking.

I believe Polarion-USA can make the same claim.

In terms of light output, the statement than an HID is an HID is not a correct statement. The defining/critical components is the reflector coupled properly coupled with the source and energy to that source. PH50 vs Beast...No contest in terms of output.

The Beast is 2,000 lumen light that runs for 2 hrs on it's rechargeable source.
The Polarion PH50 is 5,200 lumen light that runs for 1 hour on it's rechargeable source.

You can talk about beam shape all day long. The bottom if you need to find somebody in a hostile environment quickly I would grab an PH50 any day in almost any situation. Not because I sell them, but because I believe in them as the tool of choice.

I am not interested in selling just any commodity, I could be working for several entities at this point in my life. I am interested in providing the best tool for those that go in harms way on our behalf.

 

[Ken J. Good]

On anther note: Does the Beast II have a waterproof rating? If so to what depth?

Thanx Beast II owners.

 

[karlthev]

Great thread, great discussions--may we always have the time and interest to discuss. I recently bought a PH50 and am more than pleased with the light but sorry to say I will never, ever test it's ruggedness for it is a light and not a tool for distruction. That said, I have every confidence in Ken and his claims about the durability of this fine light. I am sure as well that the
SF Beast, with which I have no knowledge, has durability evidence in the highest standards as well. Different strokes folks.....


Karl

 

[Patriot]

Polarion is serious about the military market and it shows in the products that they've been developing. Ken from Polarion has given many examples of the ruggedness of Polarion lights and guys like DM51 are out there beating these lights up in heavy use without failure.

And above are some further awesome examples and testimonies by Ken. After those examples I'm going to guess the Polarion would handle being dropped on the floor of the Humvee just fine.

I'd love to see an old picture of the military test units that you got back Ken. I think you posted them once a long time ago.

 

[IceManArnold]

Ken J. Good: thanks for the awesome reply. When I save up the necessary funds to purchase one of your Helios lights, I will be calling. If you ever have a sale, please let me know!!

 

[KeyGrip]

IceMan: A quick word of advice, and I hope I don't come off as judgemental, but it doesn't serve anyone to be 100% brand loyal, and this is an excellent example. It seems you're going with the Polarion, which I think is a good idea because it's better suited to your use. Like the K2 and the M1, the Beast is one of SureFire's very specialized lights, and buying it just for the sake of brand continuity is, in my opinion, a mistake.

 

[FredM]

$35 is chump change to a person who paid $4100 for a light.

No joke thats like buying a Maglite and then complaing that the batteries cost 17 cents.

 

[HIDSGT]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me why on earth I or anyone would want to pay SUREFIRE $4,100 for their BEAST, pushing 2,300 lumens... when you can spend $2,200 on the Polarion PH50 and get ~5,200 lumens, (~6,400 with a high performance reflector) The Polarian PH50 Helios looks awesome, is shorter than the BEAST, more than twice the power, and half the cost. I currently own only SUREFIRE products, but I may deviate when it comes time to purchase my overkill firehose of light. Any suggestions, thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

There simply is no good reason to choose the Beast over the Polarian. I've seen both up close and there is absolutely no comparing the two. The Polarian is way brighter and simply better. The Beast is a waste of money IMO.

 

[Flashanator]

ROFL!! waste of money is an understatement for the Beast II.

so much money! so little lumens! :shakehead

 

[Patriot]

Guys, aren't we past basing the value of a light on output alone?? If that was a sensible measurement none of us would ever need to own anything more than a POB. Many CPFers own the Beast and they're hardly fools. We've been down this road before. Can we skip it this time?

 

[That_Guy]

One thing that many people fail to realize when comparing the lumen rating of the Beast to other lights is that the Beast lumen rating is out the front, while all the others are bulb lumens. The Beast produces 3200 +/-200 bulb lumens, exactly the same as all the other quality 35W HID lights out there (4300k Philips, Osram or GE bulb).

 

[BVH]

As HID guys and gals, we should be excited about all of the heavy iron players! We're on the same team here. More lights, more competition, lower prices! And it drives the technology further.

 

[jrv]

While the Beast is surely an excellent and tough light, so too, is the Polarion Helios. I don't believe the statement above is an accurate depiction of the Helios. I believe both lights are an excellent choice for military use.

In this rarefied company it may make sense to differentiate based on hard-user scenarios where the light is a necessary component of a successful mission but it well down the list of priorities of the gear that is carried.

The usual example I give is a search & rescue deployment where the medical pack, radio, etc, are all going to warrant protection in streams or against rocks, but the light has to take care of itself. In other words, a scenario where a $4k flashlight might not make the top-5 list of most valuable things in your pack...

It's too bad PK's Beast Toss wasn't captured on video. That would make clearer just what the extreme-use lights are about.

 

[BVH]

To answer this once and for all, were there rubber bumpers on the Beast during the toss?

 

[HIDSGT]

Guys, aren't we past basing the value of a light on output alone?? If that was a sensible measurement none of us would ever need to own anything more than a POB. Many CPFers own the Beast and they're hardly fools. We've been down this road before. Can we skip it this time?

Well output is the primary function of a any light isn't it? It's kind of a critical element of a flashlight considering one buys it to illuminate things. And it's not just output alone that makes the Beast overpriced. Is it a little more rugged then some of the other HID lights out there? Well I hope it does something for that price considering it's illuminating is a joke compared to the Polarian.

The question was comparing the two lights. When they are compared there is no comparison. They are both too big to carry in ones pocket and unless one plans to repeatedly drop their light on the road or trail I would say that the value of any light is primarily based on output, run time and the ability to recharge it when comparing it to another light of similar size.

I have owned my latest HID for about 6 months now and have never dropped it once and I use it every day at work 5-6 days a week. Output is and always will be the deciding factor for 90% of the people buying a hand held HID these days.

If the price was somewhat reasonable I could see some attraction, not much but some. It's over priced and underpowered so what exactly is there to skip when one asks for a comparison of the two lights. Just because some sensible people have bought this light does not make it a sensible decision.

The Beast is the size of my first HID that I bought 5 years ago:thumbsdow. One would think that Surefire could come up with a better and brighter design for a handheld HID considering they make great small LED and halogens. If anyone has the funds for R&D it would be Surefire.

 

[adamlau]

If anyone has the funds for R&D it would be SureFire.

The Beast is certainly the beneficiary of such R&D. For me it is the beam, gives a wide, expansive view.

 

[seery]

We're on the same team here.

+1

There are many reasons why folks feel the need to bash, most of which is related to jealousy,
insecurity, or unhappiness. It is what it is.

The Polarion is an absolute amazing light and has much to offer. When the need came about
for a light of this type, I researched and fielded my options. The Polarion offered much the
Beast II didn't, as was the case the Beast II offered much the Polarion didn't.

My personal decision was not based on emotions, but the reality of what each light has to offer.

There's no doubt the Polarion throws some serious light. There's no doubt the Polarion is built
tough. There's no doubt the Polarion is backed by a great team. These were never issues, for
me it came down these few simple factors, that for us were important.

The Beast II

- Includes (2) handles and can be run on both Li-Ion and primaries.
- The 12 LEDS greatly increases the number of roles in can handle.
- Amazing charging options, supply it power of almost any type, and it can be charged.
- Has twice the runtime.
- Needs half the charge time.
- Offers a lifetime warranty.

The Polarion is great. The Beast is great.

But most importantly....

Life is great. :twothumbs

 

[Patriot]

HIDSGT
Well output is the primary function of a any light isn't it? It's kind of a critical element of a flashlight considering one buys it to illuminate things. And it's not just output alone that makes the Beast overpriced. Is it a little more rugged then some of the other HID lights out there? Well I hope it does something for that price considering it's illuminating is a joke compared to the Polarian.

Maybe for you output is the most important feature. For someone in a combat zone or a hunter in the field it might be the ability to run on primaries or be able to run for over 120 minutes. Look at how popular long run LED lights are. The only light with similar features to the Beast is the Group 5 Engineering HB series and they don't have a rechargeable option.

HIDSGT
One would think that Surefire could come up with a better and brighter design for a handheld HID considering they make great small LED and halogens. If anyone has the funds for R&D it would be Surefire.

Here you're actually giving credit to Surefire for making great small LED and halogens but your HID arguement is exactly the same as the crowds who declare there is no reason to buy a Surefire LED light when a Fenix P3D Q5 will beat it in practically every measurable category.

I believe that your reasoning isn't consistent. You approve of Surefire LED's at twice the price of many competitors LED lights while calling the Beast overpriced and underpowered. The Surefire E2DL is $136 and only 120 lumens, while a P3D Q5 is $70 dollars and 205 lumens. What makes you recognize a certain value with the Surefire in this case while you can't see it when applied to a Surefire HID?

 

[jrv]

To answer this once and for all, were there rubber bumpers on the Beast during the toss?

All Beasts have the bumpers as far as I know. It's a built-in part of the light.

 

[Patriot]

All Beasts have the bumpers as far as I know. It's a built-in part of the light.

I think that BVH is making the point that the rubber bumpers go a long way to protecting the light under such abuse.

If it didn't have the bumpers on it though, that's mighty impressive. Likewise are the PH40s that survived drops onto concrete, as well as the one that dropped from 10-20' and survived.