Police Study of tactical use of Strobe

[InspectHerGadget]

You don't have to be a LEO (cop) to be tough or have common sense.
I seem to remember (my ancestors lived there) that Capricorns are a tough lot, specially in Australia.
So, from You, that accounts to me as a compliment
Thanks mate

Australia has changed a lot since then!

Ancestors? Aborigines have lived in this country for 40,000 years so probably all humans are linked when you go back far enough...

My ancestors are all from England and Scotland who in turn have populated the four corners of the globe. I was born in New Zealand but spend from 5 until 14 in the USA in Connecticut and my cousins still live in South Africa (lost touch), England and the USA (Massachusetts and Colorado).

Continue the good postings...

I ordered the Eagletac MX25L3 with the MT-G2 emitter. I know the limitations of the strobe but it can be useful.

Last night I was just about to go out for a walk, about 11:30pm. I heard a group of young teenagers who I think just got off the bus and had passed through the walkway in our cul-de-sac walking down the street. The next second I heard one of them kick our colour bond steel fence so I still had my Lenser P14R.2 in my hand so I raced out and spotted them with it and turned it up to boost, 850 Lumens and lit them up with the spot beam. One of them ambled, two ran (one a girl and the other probably the bloke who kicked our fence), the guy was running like a rabbit. My wife then stuck her head out and threatened to call the police but it was all over and a waste of time calling the police.

The incident made me think though. I could have been down the street facing them 30 seconds later. I guess if they had seen me probably nothing would have happened in the first place but...maybe

 

[Grizzlyb]

We strongly advice not to use strobe lights in situations you describe.
Use a normal light, to make things in the dark visible.

Groups of youngsters love the dark (like we did on that age) to do the stupid stuff youngsters do . . . .
Let the daylight in, (like you did) and they will go and play in other places.

Never use strong strobe lights in relative peaceful situations, that could have the opposite effect.
We only use strobes when the opponent is already very aggressive, non cooperative and only then when we want to mask/hide our tactics for a short period. (before arrest)

It is a tactical instrument, not a weapon.

 

[InspectHerGadget]

We strongly advice not to use strobe lights in situations you describe.
Use a normal light, to make things in the dark visible.

Groups of youngsters love the dark (like we did on that age) to do the stupid stuff youngsters do . . . .
Let the daylight in, (like you did) and they will go and play in other places.

Never use strong strobe lights in relative peaceful situations, that could have the opposite effect.
We only use strobes when the opponent is already very aggressive, non cooperative and only then when we want to mask/hide our tactics for a short period. (before arrest)

It is a tactical instrument, not a weapon.

Well, hopefully you are right and they play elsewhere. I ended up reporting it to the police this afternoon and they appreciate people reporting things as it can get fed into information about other incidents and affect potentially how and when they patrol.

Hopefully it is just a one off and they will think again before damaging property for a bit of fun.

The bright light had the desired effect anyway.

 

[Deadly_Pooh_Bear]

Very interesting article. I use a light with double tail cap switch that has a dedicated strobe button, but I never thought about throw vs flood. My light is more flood than throw and it makes sense that that would hinder you in a tactical situation. I also work with a lot of mental patients and I believe a disorienting strobe is the way to go if they get combative.

 

[Xacto]

We strongly advice not to use strobe lights in situations you describe.
Use a normal light, to make things in the dark visible.

Groups of youngsters love the dark (like we did on that age) to do the stupid stuff youngsters do . . . .
Let the daylight in, (like you did) and they will go and play in other places.

Glad you say that, thereby confirming my Modus operandi.

I had a similar experience a few days ago when a couple decided to have a quarrel outside our house. I just came home and saw a guy leaning on our fence. Observing the situation while standing on the front porch, I realised that he obviously wanted his girlfriend to go with him (to wherever), his voice changing from pleading to aggressiveness and back. After realizing (orientating) that the situation wasn't totally harmless, I decided to offer the woman a chance to escape. I went into the middle of the street (giving me more room to move, getting attention from our neighbours and possibly cars driving through the neighbourhood.

I switched on my Elzetta with a Malkoff flood optic and commanded the guy to let go of the woman. After an exchange of some pleasantries she turned around (twice) and said that everything was okay, which made me retreat. During the encounter, I had shortly considered the strobe setting in my Elzetta tailcap, but did not see any advantage at that stage. My flashlight and my command were backed up by my drawn Kimber Guardian Angel Pepper Spray (I assume the guy did not realise the latter).
But... and now I am steering back on topic.... how do you handle such a situation? Do you light them up with the constant on mode and then switch to strobe in case you have to make the arrest or do some of your officers carry a second flashlight for the pure illumination of the scene.
Is there possibly a slight deviation from the regulations and how things are being handled by the officers on duty?
Thanks
Cheers
Thorsten

 

[newdenny]

Hi Grizzlyb,

Any good news for the second tactical light?

 

[braddy]

I switched on my Elzetta with a Malkoff flood optic and commanded the guy to let go of the woman.

That is about a perfect way to get your self into a fight, from anyone that you do that to, not just some guy yelling at his girlfriend.

Among rough men, playing control games like that with a flashlight will send them coming after you.

 

[InspectHerGadget]

That is about a perfect way to get your self into a fight, from anyone that you do that to, not just some guy yelling at his girlfriend.

Among rough men, playing control games like that with a flashlight will send them coming after you.

It is a catch-22. If the person is just a little bit aggravated and not generally a violent sort, then the person can normally be calmed down or deterred easily enough, even just shining a light on them (not a strobe). The risk is as braddy says that if it is a more malignant individual then your life may be in grave danger if you approach them, pepper spray, death ray equipped or not, especially if you aggravate them using s strobe.

I would stay at a distance and just try to deter these sorts and make sure you can retreat somewhere easily enough before you get attacked, unless you're very sure of yourself. Even then, these days, if you hurt someone and you've used undue force, you can find yourself in a lot of trouble. Things like pepper sprays in Australia are regarded as offensive weapons so if you use one in a fight, it has better be crystal clear you didn't aggravate the situation and you were completely innocent.

I see a strobe and a pepper spray as only for use as a last resort if you find yourself attacked and there is no way out.

If someone's life is in direct danger then I would do something but you still have no need to put yourself in harm's way. A light can deter from 100m away, if a slight deterrence is needed.

My 2 cents...

 

[braddy]

My advice would have been to walk up to the man and conduct your business man to man, or yell at him from a distance telling him to knock it off or to not cross a line, or call the cops, or stay out of it, the actions taken would make even a regular guy chase a guy down and beat him up, I think the behavior was the exact type of thing that sets off males, it was annoying, timid yet invasive, and girly, and the type of thing that causes a male reaction to it.

There are reasons why some guys just have a knack for annoying other men and drawing their ire.

 

[18sixfifty]

Good stuff, thanks for the report. I have to admit I always thought of the "tactical" part of the flashlight scene as rather a joke. It's like a "little" hand to hand training. Just enough to make you think you're tough so you get your rear end handed to you in a fight. (like many of the kids after basic training did) Also I was "infantry" we were kicking in doors and almost always at night but with night vision goggles on so a light was something you used after securing the building. I hadn't really thought of it from a LEO or MP perspective.

I live out in the boonies so around here the biggest advantage to a light is one with a few thousand lumens to scare someone or something away. By far more likely a bear than a person! I don't think I want to hit a bear with a strobe and tick him or her off. I would rather just let the bear know I'm there so they leave.

 

[turkeylord]

I had a thought the other day. Now that we're getting to the point where we have planty of lumens to get the job done with a weapon light, has anyone considered a elliptical "hot spot" going from straight out to say, 30 degrees above vertical? This way you could keep your weapon aimed downward and still have light out in front of you... Good/bad idea for home defense or police use?

 

[BeauB]

Cool read. Thanks man!

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I just removed three OT posts.

Bill

 

[Grizzlyb]

Thanks Bill, for helping keep things on topic.

@Turkeylord,

Good thinking. We'll try working with your idea and see what pro and con comes out.

 

[LanWolf]

Is the light you use a light with a p60 drop-in? Like solarforce and surefire lights?

 

[Grizzlyb]

Is the light you use a light with a p60 drop-in? Like solarforce and surefire lights?

Sorry but No LanWolf,

There are so many requirements necessary to make a normal light into these dedicated Tactical Strobe Lights that, for the moment, p60 drop-ins cant be used.
It would open up some possibilities thou.

At the moment the latest innovations and technology is integrated in the last version of these Tactical Strobe Lights.
We'll keep the readers of this forum informed.

 

[LanWolf]

Mainly, i thought so, because of the versatility possible with the p60 dropins, and the form factor of the light looks a lot like it was a host for p60.

You are aware of the posibillity to totally build them by yourselves / programm them by yourselves?
There is a pretty standard driver , nanjg 105c (and variants on that) with an attiny 13a chip which can be programmed with your own firmware.


The biggest concern i would have is, that leos would swap out the dropin themselves, altough a drop of loctite would be able to overcome that part. (And i think those keen enough to know about dropins etc shoul also be keen enough not to screw with their issued lights..)

It is also possible to go little smaller too, with a host like the convoy s2. Not a dropin, but fixed host.
Add the led you wish and a programmable driver, possibilitys are also almost endless.

 

[Grizzlyb]

We agree on your concerns LanWolf,
And are aware of the possibillities of the p60 concept.
It has pros and cons. It will always be a work in progres.

Over time our trainings change, bad guys change, situations change and lights will keep changing due to new innovations.
At the moment we are just doing our best to get the best equipment that we can come up with to our LEO's, and that is difficult enough with all the hurdles that need to be taken.
(low budgets, slow working officials, countless commities, numnut managers, and millions of people all having different opinions)
Those things make it almost impossible to start new ideas.
But we made the start, and now slowly can make some improvements and work with new input. Thanks for yours

 

[magicstone12]

Thanks for sharing, very useful

 

[rugercat45]

Thank you very much for the great "thread"? on the Tactical use of the Strobe. It made me evaluate my light in reference to the technical specs you mentioned. I have on order an Olight M18 Maverick, and it's 23mm wide, 10 hz strobe, 127mm long, 500 lm bright, and uses 2 CR123 batts. or (I think) 1 18650. So, it's "in there" for the most part. I am very impressed with the research done in this regard, I will probably refer to this "article" for a long time. A big thanks to you!