SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

[romteb]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

My MC3000 had a little episode after i removed a charged 18650 from the 3rd slot:

 

[richardcpf]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Discharging 4x Sanyo GA at 1A with 50mA D.REDUCE and down to 2.7V I'm only getting ~3250mAh from these, is this normal?

Edit: Same test with my Opus 3100 v2.2: ~3450m/mAh. But I read the opus has higher reading than usual.

 

[gyzmo2002]

Discharging 4x Sanyo GA at 1A with 50mA D.REDUCE and down to 2.7V I'm only getting ~3250mAh from these, is this normal?

Rated capacity of 18650GA at 20Celsius is 3300mah discharged at 670ma or 25C 3350mah from 4.20v to 2.50v. Your result seems ok. You could have a bit more capacity if you discharge to 2.50v.

Edit: Forget the Opus....it gives too high results. Higher than the cell rating.

 

[kreisl]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Discharging 4x Sanyo GA at 1A with 50mA D.REDUCE and down to 2.7V I'm only getting ~3250mAh from these, is this normal?

Edit: Same test with my Opus 3100 v2.2: ~3450m/mAh. But I read the opus has higher reading than usual.

We can't compare results if everybody uses different discharge conditions lol. Please see my post:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=4819549&viewfull=1#post4819549

And you're always free to refine the calibration of your mc3k, as i had done before making that youtube video.

(…)

Yikes, my PCLS again randomly stopped logging data (without freezing or any other hints of crashing) during my latest 2 serious attempts of logging a discharge and a charge curve. Nase voll! :hairpull:

I really need now my brand new premium USB data cables. I got 1 from FT incoming and 1 from GB incoming, will take another 2 weeks until they reach me argh. Looking forward to both new cables. I'll report if the new cables fix my problem with the 'randomly stopped logging data'. The squirrel so frustrated

 

[richardcpf]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

My room temp is higher at 26C, discharge rate was higher than manufacturer's 0.2C, target volt was higher, when fully charging the cells I used termination current of 0.15A and the cell rested 2 hours prior to discharge test which made them drop to 4.18V. Had I used a lower termination current a bit more capacity could have been pushed into the cell.

So I guess my readings are correct, unless we test using the exact same condition as the manufacturer the numbers will never match.

BTW I also tested a Samsung 30Q with the same parameters and got 2960mAh, this is probably it being a high dishcarge cell was able to handle 1A better.

its funny how people go crazy about which battery to buy in order to get the maximum capacity possible, paying even $20 PER CELL which I think is ridiculous (bare cells are $8 a piece at most), and they don't realize these manufacturers rating are done in conditions we will never see in real life use. Discharge termination of C/50 is about low-low mode in flashlights which are rarely given importance in runtime tests, and a good percentage of the total capacity is in that <2.9V range.

 

[kappa7]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

My MC3000 had a little episode after i removed a charged 18650 from the 3rd slot:

It seems that the charger was applying some sort of trickle charge or maybe the "protection reset" feature that was "stuck" and keep providing current pulses.

 

[richardcpf]

I also ordered a couple 12V 40mm fans to install in the back of the unit where the heatsink is located, they will be connected in series and directly to the 15V power supply input port. I tested at 6V and they spun acceptably fast, the reason for this and not wiring them parallel at 15V is that they are quite noisy and I often leave my charger work overnight for discharge tests. If everything goes well I will also replace the tiny stock bottom fan which makes all sorts of weird noises. Anyone know if that one is 12V? Of course all this requires cutting the case, will update with some pictures.

With the stock fan the internal temperature can raise up to 75C while discharging 4 cells at 1A, this is no good for the life of the components.

 

[HKJ]

With the stock fan the internal temperature can raise up to 75C while discharging 4 cells at 1A, this is no good for the life of the components.

The most temperature sensitive components is usual the capacitors and they are rated for 105C.

 

[Devon]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Hi everyone

I've been lurking here for about 5 years now.

Thanks to everyone for the great info that's been posted. I've found it quite informative.

Question time

Can programming parameters be saved to file (pc or android) and then be uploaded to a second MC3000?
Can the programs be renamed to display on the UI, eg. Instead of 'program 1' can we display "AA dcd 1.25", or even better, someone's name, ie 'PeterD'?
Has anyone attempted to charge 3 aa's in a 1s3p setup in the charger using the quality white D cell adapters available from eBay at about $1/unit and can 4 adapters fit in the charger?
Can the charger be locked so settings and programs are not accidentally changed or lost?

TIA

Edit. Has anyone saved and uploaded 'ideal' programming parameters for download if possible and if not is there a ready reference available with most common battery types in the one place?

 

[HKJ]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Can programming parameters be saved to file (pc or android) and then be uploaded to a second MC3000?
Can the programs be renamed to display on the UI, eg. Instead of 'program 1' can we display "AA dcd 1.25", or even better, someone's name, ie 'PeterD'?
Has anyone attempted to charge 3 aa's in a 1s3p setup in the charger using the quality white D cell adapters available from eBay at about $1/unit and can 4 adapters fit in the charger?
Can the charger be locked so settings and programs are not accidentally changed or lost?

The answer is no to all your questions, except a squirrel has played with parallel charging of NiMH cells (Usual it is not a good idea, they have to be discharged exactly the same for it to work).

 

[Devon]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

The answer is no to all your questions, except a squirrel has played with parallel charging of NiMH cells (Usual it is not a good idea, they have to be discharged exactly the same for it to work).

The AA cells will be mounted in the adapter permantly except for occasional checking. They will be discharged in the adapter. Would you think that sufficient or should capacity checking on each cell be undertaken to initially match them and ongoing capacity checking be done say every 50 discharges or 6 months? We are using eneloop pro's.

 

[HKJ]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

The AA cells will be mounted in the adapter permantly except for occasional checking. They will be discharged in the adapter. Would you think that sufficient or should capacity checking on each cell be undertaken to initially match them and ongoing capacity checking be done say every 50 discharges or 6 months? We are using eneloop pro's.

I would expect that to work. To get them in balance it would probably be a good idea to start with a slow charger: 16 hours at C/10. If you start with full batteries, you can reduce the 16 hours significantly.

 

[sector9]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Edit. Has anyone saved and uploaded 'ideal' programming parameters for download if possible and if not is there a ready reference available with most common battery types in the one place?

Check out the MC3000 manual, page 11, to see some recommended charge and discharge parameters for various chemistries. Manual available in PDF form here http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=219

The ability to save programs and import/export programs is one of the requested features. No idea if we will get it eventually though. In the meantime, I would be interested in a thread where we manually post our programs for comment/sharing

 

[Devon]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

I would expect that to work. To get them in balance it would probably be a good idea to start with a slow charger: 16 hours at C/10. If you start with full batteries, you can reduce the 16 hours significantly.

Individually charged or inserted in the adapter?

Has anyone tested charging termination problems at the C/10 rate in this charger? Terminate on voltage to avoid this?

 

[HKJ]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Individually charged or inserted in the adapter?

In the adapter.

Has anyone tested charging termination problems at the C/10 rate in this charger? Terminate on voltage to avoid this?

I would not expect the charger to terminate at C/10 and with the above charge it is not supposed to terminate, except on time or capacity.

 

[Devon]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

In the adapter.



I would not expect the charger to terminate at C/10 and with the above charge it is not supposed to terminate, except on time or capacity.

Thank you. I have read many of your reviews...great work and most helpful.

An off topic Q.

Panasonic ncr18650GA....new, all my testing shows them to be of similar voltage (+/-0.01v) when from the same batch. I am yet to test capacity. What is considered a safe "mismatch" in terms of % of capacity to use 3 of them in series drawing at most 3 amps continuous?

 

[tjh]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

What was the overall final opinion of the thermal design of this charger? Terrible? Average? Good?

I know that Gauss163 thinks it's terrible, HKJ's review mentions it could be better but doesn't really say there's any issues. Kreisl has his on a laptop cooler. richardcpf is installing his own fans!

Is there anything here to be really concerned about? If so, always, or only when discharging 4 x batteries at 1amp?

Thanks!

 

[HKJ]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

What was the overall final opinion of the thermal design of this charger? Terrible? Average? Good?

I know that Gauss163 thinks it's terrible, HKJ's review mentions it could be better but doesn't really say there's any issues. Kreisl has his on a laptop cooler. richardcpf is installing his own fans!

Is there anything here to be really concerned about? If so, always, or only when discharging 4 x batteries at 1amp?

The cooling is not really enough to handle the full discharge power, but due to the thermal safety reduction of current it is not a problem. The charger will limit the heatsink to 85C, that is fairly cool for power electronic, they cold have increased this temperature to avoid current reduction, but that would increase the risk of wearing the capacitors out after a few 1000 hours of discharging.

 

[tjh]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

The cooling is not really enough to handle the full discharge power, but due to the thermal safety reduction of current it is not a problem. The charger will limit the heatsink to 85C, that is fairly cool for power electronic, they cold have increased this temperature to avoid current reduction, but that would increase the risk of wearing the capacitors out after a few 1000 hours of discharging.

Thanks HKJ. You have put my mind at ease.

 

[kreisl]

Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

Kreisl has his on a laptop cooler.

hehe not exactly true

but i did open up my engineering sample, looked at the assembly, and tampered with the fan installation (only needed: a stanley knife and 1mm thick rubber band). after that mod there is no more current reduction when discharging 4 x LiIon at 1amp because the internal temperature does not reach 85°C (in a standard warm room, that is 20-25°C room temperature) anymore. i've tested it countless times and the result is super nice, no more current reduction.

i actually documented the mod, uploaded photos of it on public image hoster but i won't share until later. point is, i cannot expect owners to open up their expensive device and cut stuff, only to get rid of the current reduction at full discharge load.

i am showing my mod to sky and maybe they'll like it