I think we would be remiss to neglect the Stargate franchise....especially with Stargate Universe starting October 2nd. They seemed to better understand the need for reliable instantaneous travel commensurate with the size of the universe.
Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back odditities
- Thread starter MiniMag_Crazy_Greg
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Patriot, lol! my friends actually DO call me Crenny. although i must say you are the first on cyberspace to do so.
and that is an awesome post starhalo. Exactly the kind of depth of research we need for discussions like this.
Im backing SW simply because i never watched StarTrek, it was before my time. And when Phantom Menace came out was at the right time for me to get all excited about it. I was like, 10 or something.
I agree and do find it odd that Anikan Skywalker, one of the best duelists around (obiwan: "If you practiced your Saber skills as much as you do your wit you would rival master yoda as a swordsman") Could find a match in luke. I guess its all down to luke being THAT much more force sensitve, and mechanical parts slowing you down.
as for the emperor dying because he fell, well, he had nothing to force jump FROM. Jedi cant fly, thats for sure, but im assuming he used up a significant amount of force energy electrocuting luke, and he would have needed something to jump from. I doubt he is very nimble in his older days. lol
Crenshaw
and that is an awesome post starhalo. Exactly the kind of depth of research we need for discussions like this.
Im backing SW simply because i never watched StarTrek, it was before my time. And when Phantom Menace came out was at the right time for me to get all excited about it. I was like, 10 or something.
I agree and do find it odd that Anikan Skywalker, one of the best duelists around (obiwan: "If you practiced your Saber skills as much as you do your wit you would rival master yoda as a swordsman") Could find a match in luke. I guess its all down to luke being THAT much more force sensitve, and mechanical parts slowing you down.
as for the emperor dying because he fell, well, he had nothing to force jump FROM. Jedi cant fly, thats for sure, but im assuming he used up a significant amount of force energy electrocuting luke, and he would have needed something to jump from. I doubt he is very nimble in his older days. lol
Crenshaw
haha....lol. It seemed to roll off the tongue....errm, I mean fingers. It was a good guess I suppose. 
StarHalo, you're the man with the illustrations there! :twothumbs
The fuel capacity seems a bit overkill in the case of fusion reactor doesn't it! I think I'd ditch 4 of those fuel tanks and fill them with star destroyers, AT-AT's and stormtroopers...
StarHalo, you're the man with the illustrations there! :twothumbs
The fuel capacity seems a bit overkill in the case of fusion reactor doesn't it! I think I'd ditch 4 of those fuel tanks and fill them with star destroyers, AT-AT's and stormtroopers...
direct comparison of these SF-movies:
in SW EVERY big ship explosion sucks. extremely!!!.
Small Explosions --> nice, but every big ship going
--> not even worth a joke.
... has not improved with the new films, or the new versions of part 4-6.
There is only one good, "big" explosion in Star Wars: Jango Fett's seismic mines
... and the only really good "big ship" explosion is the one of the Nostromo
back to SW vs. ST:
even when the Borg (are they really the best fighters?) and their shields might stop the swords eventually --> they still can be force pushed
and when it comes to Ship vs. Ship --> those spider shaped ones in Babylon 5,
they wont give a Borg ship the chance to block the 2nd shot
in SW EVERY big ship explosion sucks. extremely!!!.
Small Explosions --> nice, but every big ship going
--> not even worth a joke.... has not improved with the new films, or the new versions of part 4-6.
There is only one good, "big" explosion in Star Wars: Jango Fett's seismic mines
... and the only really good "big ship" explosion is the one of the Nostromo
back to SW vs. ST:
even when the Borg (are they really the best fighters?) and their shields might stop the swords eventually --> they still can be force pushed
and when it comes to Ship vs. Ship --> those spider shaped ones in Babylon 5,
they wont give a Borg ship the chance to block the 2nd shot
I can't have everyone keep ignoring ST's omnipotent Q character. Closest comparison would be to the ascended Ori in Stargate.
I'm sure Q would have found the SW characters sufficiently annoying that he would have vanquished them into obscurity.
I'm sure Q would have found the SW characters sufficiently annoying that he would have vanquished them into obscurity.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
The SW characters are from "A long time ago..", so they may have already evolved into Q..
That is possible, but I feel it is far more likely that they were simply vanquished into oblivion.
I guess it depends if you want to look to the future (ST), or dwell in the past (SW).
:lolsign:!!! You're funny Lux.
I guess I was ignoring it unintentionally. I knew that if we started in on this topic it could wind up in a whole bunch of heavy theological discussion that I probably wouldn't care to discuss to finality since the topic is fanciful to begin with. I over analyze things as it is so when I saw your word omnipotent I let out a sigh because of what it means to the discussion. Not that it's your own description since I think the reference, "omnipotent" is made or discussed in the ST series. On the surface it really comes down to the definition of omnipotence which is highly variable among individuals. I know what it means to my beliefs but many others would disagree with my interpretation. For example, if you believe that it's impossible for a deity to go against it's own laws, then Q isn't omnipotent. If Q isn't then omnipotent, then the limit's of their power have to be determined, which isn't possible to know with the information we have. IIRC, he (Q) is often punished for going against the continuum's own law and is even at one point made mortal (temporarily?) as penalty for his crimes. Again, I don't view the Q as omnipotent and would instead compare them a bit to what we know as angles in Christian theology. They do have power but are apparently regulated since regulation occurs in the form of disciplinary action. Thus power must be given to them by something even greater. It seems to me that in the ST vs. SW debate, which this thread has now morphed into....lol, that you stand a far better chance with the Q if you're human although this idea might not matter much in the grand scheme of my point. The Q continuum seems to have a system of justice in place that usually holds mankind in it's best interest. I don't see them taking sides or participating in the battle in the first place. Imo, they are sort of representative of the greatest power in ST, the way that the Force is the greatest power in SW. Granted, the force is more ambiguous and never takes on a form but essentially they're similar in that they answer to nothing else within the environment they're portrayed. This of course only leads to the question of who's stronger, the Force or the Q? I will say that the Force, as described in the SW series has certain characteristics of the Christian God, in that it "binds the universe together" or that it's ubiquitous. The "midiclorians" described in The Phantom Menace are similar to the Holy Spirit, one of the three persons of the Trinity. From what I've gathered in the ST movies, the Q are not ubiquitous or omnipresent. The Q clearly reproduce and give birth, so I would argue that they're created beings with some limited, "omnipotent" characteristics with assigned responsibilities. One might even likened the Q to Roman gods in a way, in that they have power but don't always act with proper moral judgment. What created them? ... who knows. In any case, if we assume "omnipotent" forces to be involved with our hypothetical galactic battle, any notions about who would do what become irrelevant since those subject to their power could be immediately over ridden at any time by a greater power. Cubes and deathstars become child's play when you're bring omnipotent power to the table or start talking about forces that bind the universe together. We either have to include the two top powers in the discussion, which takes all the fun away, or discard both powers as observers.
Enough of that for now, I'm going for some dinner. :wave:
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i actually do have to agree with patriot there. Once you get into omnipotent beings, all bets are off. I mean just take a look at marvel comics, X-men. It was all fairly well balanced, and fair. Then came along being like galactus, and the watchers. With DC there is beings like Spectre, and That omnipotent imp. Once you get into God like beings, it raises too many questions, like why cant they just wipe out everything? then everything becomes a moot point.
so i guess in a way, luxluthor is right, but it also kills the fun of discussing which series might win
Crenshaw
so i guess in a way, luxluthor is right, but it also kills the fun of discussing which series might win
Crenshaw
ypsifly
Enlightened
My 2 cents on some of the issues raised in this thread:
Yoda may well have recognized R2. He wouldn't have said anything because that would lead to Luke knowing Vader was his father too soon....or maybe he thought R2 was just another astromech. I would put money on the former.
I've always thought that ships operating under hyper drive were susceptible to weapons fire as they were not bending space and time like a ship under warp drive. isn't it possible for the Millennium Falcon to cruise into an asteroid and be destroyed while a warp driven ship would pass through with no problem? I might be mistaken on this.
When the Emperor was thrown down the shaft by Vader, he was at a moment of extreme weakness. He was channeling strong force powers that cost him physically. Look at how he was changed while flinging lightening at Mace Windu before Anakin intervened. He went from the normal looking Senator to the hollow faced Emperor. He was using the same powers, enough to damn near kill Luke before Vader chucked him down the shaft. He couldn't recover and levitate or whatever to save himself.
Luke was able to stand his ground with Vader because he was "the chosen one" the true one who would restore balance....kinda like Neo in The Matrix standing up to Agent Smith....the thread takes another turn.:nana:
Yoda may well have recognized R2. He wouldn't have said anything because that would lead to Luke knowing Vader was his father too soon....or maybe he thought R2 was just another astromech. I would put money on the former.
I've always thought that ships operating under hyper drive were susceptible to weapons fire as they were not bending space and time like a ship under warp drive. isn't it possible for the Millennium Falcon to cruise into an asteroid and be destroyed while a warp driven ship would pass through with no problem? I might be mistaken on this.
When the Emperor was thrown down the shaft by Vader, he was at a moment of extreme weakness. He was channeling strong force powers that cost him physically. Look at how he was changed while flinging lightening at Mace Windu before Anakin intervened. He went from the normal looking Senator to the hollow faced Emperor. He was using the same powers, enough to damn near kill Luke before Vader chucked him down the shaft. He couldn't recover and levitate or whatever to save himself.
Luke was able to stand his ground with Vader because he was "the chosen one" the true one who would restore balance....kinda like Neo in The Matrix standing up to Agent Smith....the thread takes another turn.:nana:
ypsifly
Enlightened
Oh, and Q:
While he was limited by The Continuum, he could have very well done away with Picard and crew, if not much more, but his biggest limitation was his personality. He would much rather play with humans than crush us like bugs. Putting humans through moral dilemmas is so much more fun for him than making a show of his true strength.
While he was limited by The Continuum, he could have very well done away with Picard and crew, if not much more, but his biggest limitation was his personality. He would much rather play with humans than crush us like bugs. Putting humans through moral dilemmas is so much more fun for him than making a show of his true strength.
Hope you had a nice dinner.
Indeed the Q (Continuum) tosses the deck of cards--that everyone has so carefully sorted into piles of relative power--up into the air. Same thing happened with Stargate Atlantis "The Ancients" who "ascended" yet remain interlocked in conflict with "The Ori."
One of the most remarkable things about all three series (ST, SW, SG) is that they all introduced a set of these somewhat flawed/vulnerable "super-beings" (including "The Force") without having crossed the line and subsuming people's actual religious beliefs.
As a result, you can (and should--to avoid a mod closing the thread) talk about their self-promoted powers in a non-Theological context of omnipotence & omniscience.
I actually have no basis to claim that Q would have favored ST forces over SW's. I just wanted to reserve the right in my certain belief that ST>SW to be able to toss the deck of cards (and clever StarHalo charts) up into the air. :devil:
Plus ST came first.
LOL! You think we are obsessing, have you seen the sets of videos, and considered how much time people spent making these? (Other links at this one)
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LOL....Oh my goodness, that first one about caused me to hyper-ventilate!!!
That's insane! I can't believe how well they're edited for just a you-tube video.
Thank you so much for that. I honestly had no idea how crazy people were about this stuff.
Oh yeah! ....just wanted to point out that the star destroyer detected and probed the Enterprise before the Enterprise could do the same. Better, more advance avionics and sensors I suppose?
:laughing:
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You guys are forgetting that ST has time travel capability. (USS Relativity from a Voyager espisode) so theoretically they could travel back in time and grab some jedi and SW tech. Or maybe the Borg would beat them to it and outfit their mechanical arm with a lightsaber instead of that useless turning thing. Hmmm, lightsaber torpedoes would be interesting. Or maybe there'd be some kind of fusion due to ST time travel. Yoda in a miniature starfleet admiral uniform? USS Chewbacca? Okay, I'll stop now.
Always more in to starwars, thanks for the link.
Starwars also had these two other super weapons other than the Death star..http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Centerpoint_station & http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Crusher
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Oh yeah! ....just wanted to point out that the star destroyer detected and probed the Enterprise before the Enterprise could do the same. Better, more advance avionics and sensors I suppose?
Blah Blah Blah.....just another Wookie Wanna-Be!
Never even heard of them before and the sun crusher is just strange. If it was so powerful why not construct a fleet of them? It's almost as if the writers anticipated a SW vs ST debate and just said, "let's create a galaxy destroyer that can cross the known universe in the blink of an eye."
Unlike ST's real things, that is impossibly fantastical.
It's sort of like a cat that is bored, and then finds a mouse. He plays with the mouse, he paws at it, pretends to let it go and then snags the mouse's tail at the last second. But he doesn't kill the mouse because he knows that once he does... He'll have nothing to play with, and will be bored again!
BTW, I always got the impression that the film which would become Star Wars: Episode IV was way more popular than anyone on the production team expected it to be.
"Aww crap, we need to make a sequel. What do we do with the existing characters? Anybody have some ideas?!"
I think they just made $#^% up as they went along.
