Surefire E1B MaxVision discussion

[tonywalker23]

If you're thinking about getting an E1B-MV, Amazon has them for less than $90 in their Deal of The Day which expires a few hours from now at midnight PST.

I wish I saw this a month ago

 

[GoVegan]

Did a runtime test today hope this is useful!
Fenix 16340 700mah vs sf 123. Fenix held 100% regulation for 30mins untill protection cutoff at 3.4v. Sf 123 fell out of regulation with in the first few mins and flickered really bad starting around 54% untill i terminated at 18%

When the E1B MV was released I thought that this would be a good option for a small pocketable light and I was hoping that it would have better regulation like the original E1B, instead it has a similar runtime chart as the 200/300 lumen EB1 lights.
I was really disappointed when I saw this chart back in Oct 2017 and not long after that ended up buying the Malkoff MDC SHO instead which I later replaced with a HDS light for better runtime.
I'd still like to consider the Backup MV as a backup light for the bag (to replace a Protac) and maybe an option for family gifts as the light is small and simple operation and not too expensive.

So can anyone confirm if this CR123 runtime as detailed in Jose's chart is absolutely correct, or if it was an issue that was later fixed?
For me personally I can not purchase a light that is supposedly rated for 1.3 hours but starts to flicker after 27 mins.
Damn I wish all companies produced runtime charts like Streamlight does, it would keep them honest and make purchasing decisions a lot easier for customers.

BTW thanks for taking the time to test and chart the light Jose.

 

[Modernflame]

I was really disappointed when I saw this chart back in Oct 2017 and not long after that ended up buying the Malkoff MDC SHO instead which I later replaced with a HDS light for better runtime.
I'd still like to consider the Backup MV as a backup light for the bag (to replace a Protac) and maybe an option for family gifts as the light is small and simple operation and not too expensive.

For what it's worth, the MDC SHO will also crush a CR123 in short order. The run time graph is quite similar to the SF, although I'm not aware of any flickering issues with the Malkoff.

 

[EzGoingKev]

I just picked up one of these for $63 brand new.

The 5 lumen low has the greenish tint to it. The 400 lumen high is a nice bright white light with a good beam with a little more spill than throw.

For really close up stuff I like the 5 lumen low better than Surefire's 15 lumen low on other lights.

IMO it should be:

5 lumens low
~75 lumens mid
400 lumens high

Surfire needs to learn how to give their lights more run time.

 

[tonywalker23]

$63 where at?

I just picked up one of these for $63 brand new.

The 5 lumen low has the greenish tint to it. The 400 lumen high is a nice bright white light with a good beam with a little more spill than throw.

For really close up stuff I like the 5 lumen low better than Surefire's 15 lumen low on other lights.

IMO it should be:

5 lumens low
~75 lumens mid
400 lumens high

Surfire needs to learn how to give their lights more run time.

 

[euroken]

I just picked up one of these for $63 brand new.

The 5 lumen low has the greenish tint to it. The 400 lumen high is a nice bright white light with a good beam with a little more spill than throw.

For really close up stuff I like the 5 lumen low better than Surefire's 15 lumen low on other lights.

IMO it should be:

5 lumens low
~75 lumens mid
400 lumens high

Surfire needs to learn how to give their lights more run time.

They have three levels?

 

[GoVegan]

They have three levels?

No that's not what he wrote.

IMO it should be:

5 lumens low
~75 lumens mid
400 lumens high

Surfire needs to learn how to give their lights more run time.

As for 3 levels, the light only has High/Low as it is designed as a tactical light, it needs to be simple, hence only 2 modes. But I agree it does need longer runtime. 250/5 lumens would make more sense and would then have over 3 hours of runtime on high.

 

[euroken]

Oh, got it. I thought he found one with 3 levels

Skimming over the messages...getting myself in trouble.

 

[jkid1911]

So when it comes to batteries, in summation....?

cr123s don't last worth a....
rcr123 will work but last no better than the cr123
icr16340 will work but are only marginally better than a cr123 and die without warning
imr16340 will work and offer the best performance overall

Now that my favorite AW IMR16340s are no longer available, is there a consensus on the best alternative?

 

[RobertMM]

So when it comes to batteries, in summation....?

cr123s don't last worth a....
rcr123 will work but last no better than the cr123
icr16340 will work but are only marginally better than a cr123 and die without warning
imr16340 will work and offer the best performance overall

Now that my favorite AW IMR16340s are no longer available, is there a consensus on the best alternative?

Fenix and Klarus make 16340s that actually top 700mAh at 1Amp draw, and the newer Vapcell 16340 does even better at 750mAh, as per HKJ's tests.

 

[jkid1911]

Fenix and Klarus make 16340s that actually top 700mAh at 1Amp draw, and the newer Vapcell 16340 does even better at 750mAh, as per HKJ's tests.

Great thanks!!

 

[GoVegan]

So I purchased my first Surefires recently and have been EDCing them both for 1 month or so.
Really I don't think I've ever been so disappointed with any other purchases. Ordered the E1B MV and the Titan-A.

As documented and graphed a couple of years ago, the runtime of the E1B MV on high is really terrible, specs list it 1.25 hours (1 Hour 15 mins), but when I tested it with a new battery I started getting very slight flicker (my eyes are very sensitive to it) just after 22 mins, and by 28 mins I think anyone would have been able to see it, by 32 mins it was bad, and it continued until 1 turned off the light just after 1 hour and 15 mins. I would say the lumens still seemed about 40-50 at that time but I tried turning it back on and nothing... not what you'd want in a tactical light.
I'm just really disappointed that Surefire never fixed the issue or the listed runtime specs because as far as I'm concerned they are just lying about the runtime.

Anyway I love the feel, great in a pocket, build quality is awesome, High/Low UI is great, just that runtime is awful. Also bought a Z68 tailcap for it too.
And on top of that one of my Titan A light's UI seems to want to stick to high occasionally (even after cleaning the threads), other one works fine.

So really not impressed with Surefire's specs/standards.

My hopes for future versions of the Backup series are to not see above 1.5 A draw, min 1.5 hour on high, flat regulated runtime, battery warning by flicker after 1.5 hours. If that means having a high of only 300 lumens, then so be it.

My advice to anyone considering purchasing the E1B-MV would be to look at the HDS EDC LE, or the Streamlight Protac 1L-1AA / 1L, Elzetta Alpha or even the Malkoff MDC SHO as they are all better lights, especially for run time, and in my testing none of these lights will leave you in the dark like the E1B-MV.

 

[archimedes]

....As documented and graphed a couple of years ago, the runtime of the E1B MV on high is really terrible ....

I'm just really disappointed that Surefire never fixed the issue or the listed runtime specs....

The ANSI FL1 runtime standard is basically how long to get down to 10% of the initial output (after 30 sec at max with fresh cells, etc)

To my understanding it says nothing about regulation. The decrease from 100% to 10% could be a straight line down, or held completely flat at 99% until crashing to 1% at that last second. Makes no difference for the reported spec.

Now, that may make a rather big difference in utility for certain purposes, but that has nothing to do with the definition of the spec.

 

[GoVegan]

The ANSI FL1 runtime standard is basically how long to get down to 10% of the initial output (after 30 sec at max with fresh cells, etc)

To my understanding it says nothing about regulation.

Of course I understand the ANSI standards and while far from ideal for certain applications such as tactical flashlights at least it is a standard. My issue is that that the flickering of a light (indicating that the battery needs replacing) should not be included in the advertised runtime.
Surefire lists the specs as 75 mins, but when it starts flickering after 27 or 28 mins, then it should be advertised as a 27 or 28 min runtime on high. Them listing it as 75 mins is just downright dirty and deceitful.

Surefire apparently used to under-quote and over perform in their listed specs, well this is certainly not the case with the E1B-MV.
I think this is what happens to them when they stick by their philosophy of #allthelumens no matter the cost in terms of battery safety, design of the specs and usage practicality. If they want to fight in the lumens war then their engineers should first understand the limitations of the the battery chemistry and the drivers/LEDs that they are designing their lights around, or at least not be driven by their marketing team.
At least for now, every time I see that ridiculous #allthelumens tag on social media posted by one of their shills, all I can think of is #disappointed.

 

[jkid1911]

I have one and absolutely love it. However, to be clear I use it a minute at a time at best and I always have 4 back up batteries at hand for it. I realize this doesn't contribute to the run time debate, but just want to add how much I like it and how unfortunate it is that the run is so limited regardless of claims. The beam profile is great and would be just good with less output. I'm guessing SF fell prey to the lumens war and overextended the,selves on this one....

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Anyway I love the feel, great in a pocket, build quality is awesome, High/Low UI is great, just that runtime is awful.

Agreed. Nice light but it's begging for a longer runtime medium setting of, say, 100 lumens. The 5 lumen low is fine for dark adapted eyes in the woods perhaps but not bright enough for most tasks like trying to find a connector that has come loose in car wiring (I speak from recent experience). And, if you run it on high, as GoVegan says, you get maybe 30 minutes before the battery tanks.

 

[WDR65]

Agreed. Nice light but it's begging for a longer runtime medium setting of, say, 100 lumens. The 5 lumen low is fine for dark adapted eyes in the woods perhaps but not bright enough for most tasks like trying to find a connector that has come loose in car wiring (I speak from recent experience). And, if you run it on high, as GoVegan says, you get maybe 30 minutes before the battery tanks.

Sounds like you're describing the PKDL PR-1. It's three modes and runs longer on high than the E1b while having a similar output. I think I asked about the difference between the E1b and it in this same thread. I have both and while the PR-1 isn't as floody it's close. I just wish it had Surefire style anodizing and knurling.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Sounds like you're describing the PKDL PR-1. It's three modes and runs longer on high than the E1b while having a similar output. I think I asked about the difference between the E1b and it in this same thread. I have both and while the PR-1 isn't as floody it's close. I just wish it had Surefire style anodizing and knurling.

I've got the PKDL PR-1 as well. I agree, I'd love the same functionality in the SF E1B MV. I also prefer the SureFire HA finish and knurling to the artistic funky aesthetics of the PR-1.

 

[GoVegan]

Greg Lapin of VATA talks about the Backup MV in this new video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8kVWaamPx8

Profile: http://vatagroup.net/about.html

 

[GoVegan]

There was a good article I read a while ago. I won't link to it here, but it comes up as the first URL when searching for the article title in DuckDuckGo.
Anyway she carries a SureFire E1B-MV

The 8 Things a (Former) Secret Service Agent Carries at All Times
"Surefire is the brand that I've always used. It is the best. Police use it, so if it's good enough for law enforcement and all the tactical teams, then it's good enough for you."