vadimax
Flashlight Enthusiast
3.2V with protected cell means its high current protection has kicked in.
Surefire EDCL1-T
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Vox Clamatis in Deserto
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High current protection that takes a half hour to activate? Must not be too effective, right?
I suspect the PTC trips due to the low voltage under load as the battery depletes. The 3.2 volts is a no-load voltage measured by the Nitecore D4 charger. I'm guessing the IMR cell in-circuit voltage drops well below that with the high current draw of the EDCL-1T.
I see that Gene has endorsed the use of IMR cells in his new Bodyguard light with this caveat to check the voltage:
https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.c...-small-led-flashlights/products/mdc-bodyguard
RobertMM
Flashlight Enthusiast
Agree, voltage even with IMR must be dropping below 3 volts, maybe even down to 2.5 because of the hungry EDCL1T current draw. 16340 is a small cell after all, IMR or not.
Voltagesag would be more pronounced than on bigger cells.
Voltagesag would be more pronounced than on bigger cells.
vadimax
Flashlight Enthusiast
You do not understand the physics of high current protection activation. Surefire lights a fully driven (I guess) and try to produce the claimed performance as long as possible. Later, at some point they drop out of regulation. So, when your battery is fully charged an EDCL1-T sucks, say, 1.8 A from the battery. Later the battery depletes and its voltage drops. Surefire driver tries to suck the same amount of energy. With dropping voltage it has to pull 2.5 A... and you battery protection circuit has, say, 2.2 A limit. Once you cross that line you suddenly discover yourself in the darkness while your battery is still 3.2 V and capable to release energy.Or it may be the case mentioned by RobertMM: loaded battery voltage drops below, say, 2.8 V (battery protection limit) -- the light goes off. You pull the battery out and measure its resting voltage which is 3.2 V.
This is why protected cells suck in serious applications.
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Vox Clamatis in Deserto
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And I don't think there is much runtime left in the IMR cell at 3.2 volts on the charger after my comparison with a non-protected IMR cell.
Both protected and unprotected IMR cells work great in this light but the low battery warning signs are more subtle than on some earlier lights. On an old SureFire L1 the light would work only in low mode for quite a while as the battery ran down for example.
I do like the low mode on the EDCL-1T better than the one on the E1B-MV. It seems to be significantly brighter, maybe 15 lumens versus 5 lumens.
RobertMM
Flashlight Enthusiast
Compared to my E1D, I find the EDCL1T quite the battery vampire.
With a close to dead(2.8+ Volts) Sanyo cell dated 2021 expiry, I used up much of the last of its remaining capacity to hunt for veins on the arms of one of my terminally ill ER patients yesterday, maybe 10-15 minutes constant high mode.
When I got home I checked cell voltage, 2.71 Volts and it will still light up on low. I used it for maybe an hour this night until I stupidly got curious enough to press harderto see if output would increase, then the cell died and would not come on again.
Final voltage was 2.59 volts.
Certainly a win for the two stage switch, over the hi-low or low-hi clickes found on the 6PX/G2X/E1D/E2D/E1B etc variants.
With a close to dead(2.8+ Volts) Sanyo cell dated 2021 expiry, I used up much of the last of its remaining capacity to hunt for veins on the arms of one of my terminally ill ER patients yesterday, maybe 10-15 minutes constant high mode.
When I got home I checked cell voltage, 2.71 Volts and it will still light up on low. I used it for maybe an hour this night until I stupidly got curious enough to press harderto see if output would increase, then the cell died and would not come on again.
Final voltage was 2.59 volts.
Certainly a win for the two stage switch, over the hi-low or low-hi clickes found on the 6PX/G2X/E1D/E2D/E1B etc variants.
Vox Clamatis in Deserto
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I should clarify that my observations above of a rapid decline with little or no tail as the cell depletes are with IMR rechargeables.
But, you are right, my book learning is kinda like the snow we had late last spring, none of it stuck.
I must somewhat sheepishly admit that I have an A.B. in theoretical physics from a liberal arts school. I misspelled the college motto slightly for my screen name. The med school is named after Dr. Seuss and his wife.You do not understand the physics of high current protection activation.
But, you are right, my book learning is kinda like the snow we had late last spring, none of it stuck.
RobertMM
Flashlight Enthusiast
My last post wasn't aan answer to yours, Vox.
Just observations of mine when I used up that primary, compared to the behavior of the E1D when I EDC'd it a lot, using primaries as well.
Just observations of mine when I used up that primary, compared to the behavior of the E1D when I EDC'd it a lot, using primaries as well.
I'm no studier of runtimes for various chemestries, and like the snow that Vox got... most of what I read did not stick but....
One of the take aways that kept me preferring primaries is the sudden decline of rechargeables if I recall correct.
Some of my regulated lights quickly shut down with primaries too. But in the cases of those with levels of output I do get a little time on low output versus ones that have low voltage protection circuitry.
I figured the 1 and 2T lights do give a bit of time on low to source more fuel when using primary fuel.
Is that the case?
One of the take aways that kept me preferring primaries is the sudden decline of rechargeables if I recall correct.
Some of my regulated lights quickly shut down with primaries too. But in the cases of those with levels of output I do get a little time on low output versus ones that have low voltage protection circuitry.
I figured the 1 and 2T lights do give a bit of time on low to source more fuel when using primary fuel.
Is that the case?
RobertMM
Flashlight Enthusiast
The 2T gives more of an abrupt drop and kills cells more quickly compared to the 1T which has more of a longer tail of diminishing output.
Lumen83
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Well after wrestling with the idea of purchasing the EDCL1-T for a very long while, I decided to buy it knowing I could return it if I didn't like it. The biggest thing keeping me away from buying this light right away was the 5 lumen low. I thought that would be much too low for most tasks and that the 500 lumen high would be too high for most tasks. I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised that I was wrong. I think the whole key to understanding the usefulness of this light is in the name EDC. Its not the best dog walking light, the best hiking light, the best long range spot light, etc. It is a light that is capable of any of those tasks when you need to do them with what you've got in your pocket.
Part of what makes the two different brightness levels useful is the beam profile. It has a big spot that transitions to a lot of spill. This really takes advantage of the "5" lumen (probably more like 15) low and is suitable for navigating indoors, and performing certain tasks like inspecting equipment up close. I've used it to navigate a short hiking trail at night, and it is capable but certainly not the best. Again, the usefulness of this light is being able to accomplish what you need to with the light that you have with you right now. The 500 lumen high lights up a huge area of my yard and I really love the wide beam profile. It is a bit too bright for most indoor applications, besides maybe trying to blind an intruder, but I've used it to light up a boat dock, check to see if there are any critters under the deck, etc.
When I first unpackaged the light my first thought was "wow thats never going to fit comfortably in a front jeans pocket". But, after carrying it every day for a couple of weeks I'm happy to report that I don't seem to have any problem with it, and it is not uncomfortable. I found that bezel down carrying in the front pocket works best and is the most comfortable. As for run times, I haven't tested it with primaries but that seems to be well documented already. I find that I get about a half hour and then straight drop off at 500 lumens using an lfp123a but when using an RCR123a I get a few minutes longer at what seems to be close to the 500 lumens and then it drops off much more gradually until it goes dim.
Pros:
2 stage gas pedal tailcap. Best UI ever in my opinion.
Beam profile
brightness levels
ruggedness
Cons:
Bezel is slightly larger in diameter than I would prefer for front pocket carry. But, it is still comfortable enough and quite do-able.
Verdict: I'm definitely keeping this light, and it is going to be my EDC light.
Part of what makes the two different brightness levels useful is the beam profile. It has a big spot that transitions to a lot of spill. This really takes advantage of the "5" lumen (probably more like 15) low and is suitable for navigating indoors, and performing certain tasks like inspecting equipment up close. I've used it to navigate a short hiking trail at night, and it is capable but certainly not the best. Again, the usefulness of this light is being able to accomplish what you need to with the light that you have with you right now. The 500 lumen high lights up a huge area of my yard and I really love the wide beam profile. It is a bit too bright for most indoor applications, besides maybe trying to blind an intruder, but I've used it to light up a boat dock, check to see if there are any critters under the deck, etc.
When I first unpackaged the light my first thought was "wow thats never going to fit comfortably in a front jeans pocket". But, after carrying it every day for a couple of weeks I'm happy to report that I don't seem to have any problem with it, and it is not uncomfortable. I found that bezel down carrying in the front pocket works best and is the most comfortable. As for run times, I haven't tested it with primaries but that seems to be well documented already. I find that I get about a half hour and then straight drop off at 500 lumens using an lfp123a but when using an RCR123a I get a few minutes longer at what seems to be close to the 500 lumens and then it drops off much more gradually until it goes dim.
Pros:
2 stage gas pedal tailcap. Best UI ever in my opinion.
Beam profile
brightness levels
ruggedness
Cons:
Bezel is slightly larger in diameter than I would prefer for front pocket carry. But, it is still comfortable enough and quite do-able.
Verdict: I'm definitely keeping this light, and it is going to be my EDC light.
knucklegary
Flashlight Enthusiast
Nice write up! I have been on the fence about this light.. Maybe B&H will have a Labor Day sale to further entice me!
Vox Clamatis in Deserto
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B&H already has a pretty good price on this light and the EDCL2-T, put it in the cart to see the 'unpublished' discounted price.
Lumen83
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B&H already has a pretty good price on this light and the EDCL2-T, put it in the cart to see the 'unpublished' discounted price.
Looks like they are throwing in a free olight keychain light too.
Vox Clamatis in Deserto
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It's a nice little AAA light. However, if you put one of the EDCL's in the B&H cart to see the price and then remove it, be sure to take out the 'free' Olight as well or it might be appended to your next order as a $10 item.
Swedpat
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Surefire EDCL1-T Runtime Tests
Thanks for the graphs! I have to say that I am very positively surprised of such a high capacity and that with a single CR123. It's pretty close the performance of the 500lm E2DL if I am right, and that light uses 2 CR123.
When I first read about this light I thought: "ahh, another 3min and then step down to 50%-light". But not: after a small initial decline it's flat until almost half an hour and the brightness should be perceived at stable for the eyes until at least 50min. This is indeed an attractive flashlight. Unfortunately difficult to get in Europe, and if it is, very expensive..
EDCL1-T runtime tests:
With Duracell Ultra CR123A:
With 16650 until the protection circuit kicked in:
With K2 Energy LFP:
Thanks for the graphs! I have to say that I am very positively surprised of such a high capacity and that with a single CR123. It's pretty close the performance of the 500lm E2DL if I am right, and that light uses 2 CR123.
When I first read about this light I thought: "ahh, another 3min and then step down to 50%-light". But not: after a small initial decline it's flat until almost half an hour and the brightness should be perceived at stable for the eyes until at least 50min. This is indeed an attractive flashlight. Unfortunately difficult to get in Europe, and if it is, very expensive..
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coffeeandlifting
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I really like this model. Mine runs great with a single LiFePO4 123 cell. I carry this more than any other light. Its a mini version of my eb2-T with a broader beam.
knucklegary
Flashlight Enthusiast
Is LiFePO4 the only recommended chargeable cell to use, or will 1x Orbtronic CR123 Lion protected cells fit and function okay without distroying the emitter?
Lumen83
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I believe its the only one that surefire approves of. Specifically, the one they sell. But, Mine runs quite a bit better on non LiFePO4 RCR123As. No issues yet. The K2s drop off and die much more suddenly. Non-LiFePO4 RCRs seem to taper off to a lower and more usable level giving me a bit of a warning, which I prefer.
