Tenergy 900mAh R123As? and Powerizer?

[Markcm]

I can't resist but to put in my two cents

I haven't tested anyone else's cells myself (I could be wrong) but I will make an educated guess that at this time NO manufacturer in China including the manufacturer of my cells at www.e-lectronics.net is anywhere near 900mAh on a rechargeable IC reduced 3 volt cell.

The IC in these cells takes up about 6mm which is about 18% of a standard CR123 and don't forget the small energy loss from dropping voltage through an IC; I could be wrong but 900mAh just sounds way higher than technology offers today. And believe me when I say that you can have anything you want printed on a battery from China, based on conversations I have had with Chinese manufacturers I believe they get caught up in marketing trying to out do the last highest capacity "rating" with no regards to actual performance. For instance, I see a lot of retailers who advertise 1000 recharge cycles, I'm admittedly not a battery chemist but I don't believe many standard grade normal use Li-ion batteries are going to make it past 500 cycles and be worth using anymore(correct me if I'm wrong here). I am trying to explain to them that brand recognition of a quality well represented product is worth many times more than a one-off label claiming high capacity....sooner or later people test products and demystify false claims. This is a whole new theory to the Chinese manufacturers I have talked with. Don't get me wrong, some of their product is very good, I guess determining which ones is our job here at CPF.

I personally believe in representing these cells exactly for what they are, I provide the best data of which I have personally collected and that shared by CPF'rs. You can see plotted performance of e-lectronics version of IC reduced versus a standard RCR123 HERE The best I can tell is that 600mAh is a good true value for these Chinese RCR123 3 volt IC reduced cells.

I don't have all the answers about these cells but I'll share the ones I do.

Does anyone have a set of these and a Maha 777 battery analyzer? I'd be interested to know what the capacity is too.....I'm guessing ~600

Okay, maybe that was my 3 cents worth :laughing:

-Markcm

 

[jsr]

Looking forward to the results.

 

[Brighteyez]

I've never believed anything that is put on a package or spec page from a Chinese manufacturer. The claims are too far-fetched to be believable by any reasonable person.

Insofar as the 1000 charge claim, that's stolen from the NiCD battery claims that have been around for a quarter century or more. The Chinese vendors use that same claim for both NiMH and LIon batteries. Vendors in the US that sell these batteries (or products using these batteries) are more likely to claim 500 and 300 respectively for those two chemistries.

I can't resist but to put in my two cents

I haven't tested anyone else's cells myself (I could be wrong) but I will make an educated guess that at this time NO manufacturer in China including the manufacturer of my cells at www.e-lectronics.net is anywhere near 900mAh on a rechargeable IC reduced 3 volt cell.

 

[JimH]

Does anyone have a set of these and a Maha 777 battery analyzer? I'd be interested to know what the capacity is too.....I'm guessing ~600

I have some ordered, and I have a CBA II from West Mountain Radio. I'll post results when I get the batteries and have time to test them.

 

[Markcm]

I've never believed anything that is put on a package or spec page from a Chinese manufacturer. The claims are too far-fetched to be believable by any reasonable person.

Insofar as the 1000 charge claim, that's stolen from the NiCD battery claims that have been around for a quarter century or more. The Chinese vendors use that same claim for both NiMH and LIon batteries. Vendors in the US that sell these batteries (or products using these batteries) are more likely to claim 500 and 300 respectively for those two chemistries.

I have been having extensive discussions with my manufacturer recently regarding Chinese vs. American marketing. I stess to them that building a quality product and representing it well will go much further than a bogus label; they seem to be responding, my RCR123A 3.0IC are still marked 600mAh by my request.

The Chinese manufacturers tend to believe that inflating the numbers will help the product sell, when one of them does it the next bumps it up a bit more yet the product has not changed at all :tsk: . Then we have to test it to find out how well it really performs and then the brand gets a bad name for overstating the performance. 1000 cycles out of a Chinese manufactured Li-ion cell or 900mAh from a 17280 cell with 3 volt regulation speaks for its self. INFLATED!

I do give my manufacturer some credit, they have recently been very interested in my input regarding what we consider appropriate marketing and design. I'm listening to the requests here at CPF and pass them on. Hopefully the outcome will be better represented products with design changes such as protruding + terminals on protected 18650 cells.

-Markcm

 

[greyfox]

I have been having extensive discussions with my manufacturer recently regarding Chinese vs. American marketing. I stess to them that building a quality product and representing it well will go much further than a bogus label; they seem to be responding, my RCR123A 3.0IC are still marked 600mAh by my request.

The Chinese believe that inflating the numbers will help the product sell, when one of them does it the next bumps it up a bit more yet the product has not changed at all :tsk: . Then we have to test it to find out how well it really performs and then the brand gets a bad name for overstating the performance. 1000 cycles out of a Chinese manufactured Li-ion cell or 900mAh from a 17280 cell with 3 volt regulation speaks for its self. INFLATED!

I do give my manufacturer some credit, they have recently been very interested in my input regarding what we consider appropriate marketing and design. I'm listening to the requests here at CPF and pass them on. Hopefully the outcome will be better represented products with design changes such as protruding + terminals on protected 18650 cells.

-Markcm

agree! quality is what we need

 

[Brighteyez]

Exaggerated claims seems to have become more prevalent as the manufacturing economy in that region has grown over the last 25 years, starting with Hong Kong when it was still held by the Brits, then Taiwan, and now the mainland.

Insofar as Tenergy is concerned, initial research seems to reveal that it is the US name of a California corporatin that grew out of All-Battery.com, rather than being the actual name of a manufacturer in China.

The Chinese believe that inflating the numbers will help the product sell, when one of them does it the next bumps it up a bit more yet the product has not changed at all :tsk: .

 

[jsr]

JimH - any updates on the testing of the Tenergy 900mAh R123As?

 

[JimH]

When I bought the Tenergy R123's, I didn't buy a charger because I already had a couple of 3v chargers that I got with my 3v Ultralast R123's.

Because of the circuitry to drop the voltage to around 3v, 3v R123's appear to be very finicky critters. The Ultralast chargers work fine on Ultrlast batteries, but would not charge the Tenergy batteries.

I ordered some Tenergy 3v chargers and have just completed charging up some batteries. I'll try some tests tonight - if not tonight, then tomorrow.

 

[jsr]

Jim - thanks for the info on the finickyness of the 3.0 cells. That kinda sucks that each seller's/brand's cells require their own specific charger. Looking forward to your test results on the 900mAh Tenergys. I'm still on the fence if I want to get these as I have 3.6/3.7V R123As already and most my LED lights run fine on these. The 3.0V R123As would help drive my 2-cell LED lights tho...hmm..

 

[Sub_Umbra]

...Any other/updated comments on Powerizer? Their primaries and NiMH are pretty well priced.

I ordered my first batch of Powerizer Ds, AAs and AAAs a couple years ago. I don't have the equipment to quantify the capacity of them but they have served my needs well. Admittedly , I may not use my lights the way most do.

Mrs Umbra uses the Powerizer AAAs ALL the time in a personal radio that gets used hours every day. I have used the AAAs in a digital voice recorder more than anything else and they have saved us a lot of money in just these two applications.

We both use the Powerizer AAs in lights and have no complaints.

I have two six cell sets of Powerizer 9500mAH Ds that get constant rotation (along with a third set of another brand) through my CD boombox. I come close to charging one set a week and have been using all of these D cells for over two years. In other applications (like my EL Hyper Blaster) I've been surprised by a much lower self discharge rate than what I expected based on what I'd seen on the charts.

All of my Powerizers have only been charged on my Accumanager 20. (AC2020)

I don't think that this post necessarily conflicts with the reports of others. If I used many different brands and could better quantify and compare their performance I might sing a different tune. For MY uses the Powerizers have been fine and there is no doubt that they have saved and continue to save me a bunch of money with no downside that is apparent to me.

I don't buy the cheapest lights but I definately didn't want to spent 1.5 times more than what I paid for my boombox on three sets of cells for it, either. My point in all of this is that Powerizers are probably not for everyone, but for my uses (in lights, digital voice recorder, camera and boombox) they have worked very well for me. I'm not at all sure that I would be able to see any difference in performance that may justify spending up to twice as much on each cell up front.

I'm going to order Powerizers for my third time from batteryspace within a month or so.

YMMV

 

[jsr]

Jim - any update on your testing of the Tenergy 900mAh cells? I'm wondering if they stack up to their capacity claims and if so, if only under unrealistic operating/drain conditions.

 

[JimH]

I've been spending all my time testing L91's, but now I expect to be getting back to testing R123's. I just wish I had more than 1 CBA.

 

[jsr]

Jim - just wondering if you had a chance to continue testing the Tenergy 900mAh 3V R123As?

 

[JimH]

I've just tested a small hand full so far. The results were very strange and erratic. I haven't had time to test further yet, but I can say that the capacity is nowhere near 900mAh. It's actually closer to 250 mAh.

Before I do more testing, I need to check my test equipment, which I'm in the process of upgrading, and my test procedures. Part of the upgrade is my new universal battery holder.

 

[jsr]

Jim - any updates on your Tenergy R123A testing? Perhaps with more cycles, their performance as stabled out? I'm still curious on their 900mAh claim.

 

[T4R06]

are these Tenergy R123a V3.0 900maH will work on ultrafire R123a V3.0 charger?


thanks