The new Arc-LS

[Longbow]

Hopefully it won't cost too much more than the compareable Fenix??

 

[CM]

Hopefully it won't cost too much more than the compareable Fenix??

You're kidding, right? Arc does not play on the same playground as Fenix does, or for that matter, many of the other come lately manufacturers. This is a high end light, with most likely a high end price, but as they say, you get what you pay for.

 

[Longbow]

If indeed it were true, "You get what you pay for.", what a perfect world it would be.

 

[Isak Hawk]

With Arc flashlights it is IMO. You pay top dollar but you get the best (quality and reliability-wise, not necessarily brightness-wise although in this case I think it will be brighter than the competition aswell). Second best has never been good enough for me; I don't mind paying alot more for something that is better but to each his own :shrug:

 

[McGizmo]

Hopefully it won't cost too much more than the compareable Fenix??

This bait is just too tempting to ignore. With the new Arc-LS yet to be specified in any significant terms, on what grounds or basis can one presume that Fenix has a comparable model? I suspect the basis is one of price and price alone. Well, there is the shared presumption of a bright LED, battery and aluminium flashlight body as well. At this level, a Fenix is 2x to 3x the price of a light comparable to it. :shrug:

I have no idea of what the the final form or functions/ features the new light will entail but unless Peter scraps all that he has been working on, his design set of goals is so far from those apparent in a light like the Fenix and its target market that I suspect that if price is the primary consideration a decision will be easy for the potential buyer to make. There will be others who evaluate the new light on a much more comprehensive level. It will be those people who will determine the level of success or failure the new light will enjoy on the market. Those who are justifibly satisfied with the Fenix likely need not waste their time or the time of others in discussion or comparisons. A diverse market has room for diversity in product. A market driven only on price and price reductions does not support such diversity.

A perfect world would presumably satisfy all inhabitants and unless it precludes humans as they now are, it would have to support diversity as well. Some would enjoy a good whine resulting from sour grapes and others would enjoy a good wine from a stellar vinyard.

In either the world we live in or some utopian model of a perfect world, I have no idea how Peter or his still in the design stages light, would fare. In the former, only time will tell.

 

[this_is_nascar]

Hopefully it won't cost too much more than the compareable Fenix??

You've got to be kidding. How can you state the Fenix is "comparable" to a light that has not even been publicly spec'ed yet?

 

[carrot]

Hopefully it won't cost too much more than the compareable Fenix??

lol??

Fenix doesn't even offer a microprocessor-controlled light yet...

 

[mahoney]

Don't forget that "you get what you pay for" is not a linear function. The cost difference between "good" and "the best" is frequently much greater than the cost difference between "adequate" and "good", which in turn is usually greater than the cost difference between "crap" and "adequate".

 

[ViReN]

As you know, I have already announced that I am working on a new version of the Arc-LS. This thread will hopefully organize information that formally was spread among several threads.

The History

The CPF has changed a lot since I originally joined. So, for the really new people:

I designed the Arc product line and started the Arc company. I came up with the name, "Arc" because its short and the hue of early white LEDs reminded me of an electric arc welder.

Like all natural things, there have been easy/hard times in the history of this endeavor. You can read more about the company from the FAQ, wiki, this forum, etc.

Arc Design

As should be evident from our various products, Arc designs tend to favor:

- Utility first
- Minimalist aesthetics
- Mission driven features (types of cell, size, brightness class, etc)
- Utility, customer service, price. Pick two.
- Niche market only

The new Arc-LS

The Arc-LS series was the first flashlight on the market to use a, "high power" LED. First introduced in 2001, it has evolved over several years through various names, features, etc. Each time, getting brighter and most of the time- more useful. You can read about previous generations in the FAQ.

The latest version currently in development will continue this trend. Brighter, smaller, longer run times, easier to upgrade with the latest LEDs, easier to use, more durable, etc.

I do not plan on announcing the price, delivery and other specifications until the development is done. When will that be? Well, research is not always an orderly thing. It is the nature of discovery for it to be somewhat surprising. The project may be done next year, it may not.

I realize some people may not know what a typical (newer) LS series looks like:

- 1x123 cell is the primary power source
- high power LED of some sort
- designed for "EDC Pocket" mission
- usually quite expensive
- durable construction
- multiple output levels

--

Here's the latest progress:

btw, I wrote this with the assumption that our competitors read my posts the most closely.

The prototypes are in their 6th revision. Although the prototypes may look like production lights, there is still a lot to be done. The LED I want to use has been delayed by the manufacturer. In the meantime, I have been working on refining the driver and mechanicals.

You have heard the saying, "you don't plan for the last war, you plan for the next war."

The driver electronics have exceeded the original project goals. Refinements left to do include smoothing out some of the functions, finishing the user interface and automatic functions firmware, adding features to the windows application, etc. This driver is designed to work with a wide variety of LEDs: both those presently available and those yet to come. This is an important feature to me since I believe that the rate of LED improvements will increase. We might see LEDs doubling in brightness every 12 months. I would love to be able to provide an LED upgrade for less than $50. Making upgrades easier would cost us sales only if everyone only bought from us. But that is not how a real market works. This strategy, if it works, will increase our sales while reducing the cost to the consumer and most importantly, take advantage of the latest technologies.

The mechanicals are mostly done but there are a few rough edges. I also am not done making changes to the optical section, the new LED has a lot to do with that tweaking. It currently works with LEDs available now. I have been using those to test the other functions. I can say true 60 lumen is not a problem with the currently available LEDs.

Full power is temperature protected of course. That keeps the LED from being "over driven". The driver can be programmed to protect new LED types if needed. Even though a new led comes out that is x brighter, if you are like me, there is no such thing as a bright enough max power setting. Oh sure, there is such a thing as a, "prudent" level of illumination for a given task, but never arbitrarily cap the maximum power available to the user. We will still want to drive it at the highest possible power while safeguarding its temperature. The battery is usually the weak link, of course those are getting more powerfull as well.

Btw, since this is a single cell Lithium light, it requires less babysiting than multi-cell lights.

The windows interface application is stable and I am glad I have it. I find it very useful for testing the light. If time permits, it would be nice to add more features to the application and make it available to the mod community. I have been cautioned that this would make us more of a software company than a flashlight company with tech support issues and all. Since this interface is sufficiently low level enough to enable a modder to make changes that could damage the hardware, if we did offer it, it would be done with a disclaimer of any resulting damages.

The irony is, this light is more sophisticated than any previous LS but as easy or easier to use.

Yesterday, I invited a small group of local CPF'ers to preview the LS prototypes. I also gave them a quick tour of the windows app and some of the accessories. I had a lot of fun. They can tell you the light is small, bright and easy to use. Easier to use, brighter and smaller than the previous LS (Arc4).


That's it for now. This thread should be used for future discussions of the new LS so as to keep things more organized. Thank you.

Peter

edit: typos

Dear Peter,

Nice to hear the update, I havent read through the all the replies, but To me, it seems like a near 'copy' of JSB's IndiumSmart....

How would this light differ from JSB's IndiumSmart??? Please correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Indium Smart is the First light to have a Windows Based Interface

Arc LS... perhaps the second one....

it would be highly appreciated if you could clarify the doubt...

ViReN

 

[greenLED]

Hopefully it won't cost too much more than the compareable Fenix??

Sorry, but that's like saying a Jaguar and a Mitsubishi Lancer are comparable.

 

[Penguin]

Lancer Evolution maybe. haha, just joking. Arc products have always been top notch with amazing attention to detail. My LSH-P was built like a TANK and so are the current Arc AAA's. The new LS will be considerably more than a Fenix, but the price reflects the quality you're getting.

 

[MorpheusT1]

Dear Peter,

Nice to hear the update, I havent read through the all the replies, but To me, it seems like a near 'copy' of JSB's IndiumSmart....

How would this light differ from JSB's IndiumSmart??? Please correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Indium Smart is the First light to have a Windows Based Interface

Arc LS... perhaps the second one....

it would be highly appreciated if you could clarify the doubt...

ViReN

Copy...Doubt it.
Edited:Speculative comment removed!

And The abilty of changing the settings through Windows,is not copyrighted as far as i know.
Neat feature,but not groundbreaking.


As for the Fenix VS Arc comparison...
I`ll take an Arc over a Chinese light any day!

I own many Fenixes,but would not trust my life with one.
Fenix has a long way to go still...
Great for modding purposes and gifts but not a user light.

BUT,
They are getting close,the JET-I by our very own Emilion is very close to a American Quality light and in many areas kicks the snot out of the competiton.


Go Arc!!!




My 2 cents ¤%&#!
Benny

 

[McGizmo]

I predict that the new Arc light will have little grounds for comparison with the current Fenix line. If the new Arc is well received, there may be cause down the road for comparison of new Fenix offerings with the Arc light. Right or wrong, successful or not, the Peter I have met will never follow a company like Fenix. If he is on a good track, I would not be surprised to see others follow him.

That this thread, at this point, is polluted with discussion relating an unknown future light with an existing light of another manufacture is credit to good bait. It is also makes me look forward to time away from CPF.

I suppose in terms of market awareness, just having this thread stay alive could be argued as a good thing for Peter and Arc. Hype and speculation, fans and detractors are part of the landscape. To bad, IMHO but I guess it's cool if you have the time and interest for it. :wave:

[Bait rejected]

 

[D@rk Messenger]

Blargh! You've done it again and stopped me from reaching for my wallet and getting another light, can't wait to see how this turns out

 

[Lebkuecher]

[Bait rejected]

Don

In all fairness to longbow this might not be bait but a post from someone who truly doesn't know the difference between cheap china light and a quality tool. Seems like half the forums activity now days is over these cheap uni-level lights. Could be that he spends most of the time in the café reading and posting and never visits the manufactures forums.

Just a thought but maybe this would be the time for some education on the differences between the lights so that all the china lovers can get a better understanding of the differences.

 

[javafool]

I'm not sure that I will shell out big $$$ for another flashlight. But I still use my Arc-LSP on a regular basis and no matter how hard I try to replace the Arc-AAA(P) in my pocket, it still goes with me everywhere.

Okay, I really need a change. I think I will dig out my red Arc-AAA CPF special and carry it again for a while. Keep going Peter, you still have a lot of fans and support in the flashlight world.

Terry

 

[greenLED]

Dear Peter,

Nice to hear the update, I havent read through the all the replies, but To me, it seems like a near 'copy' of JSB's IndiumSmart....

How would this light differ from JSB's IndiumSmart??? Please correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Indium Smart is the First light to have a Windows Based Interface

Arc LS... perhaps the second one....

it would be highly appreciated if you could clarify the doubt...

ViReN

I hadn't thought about that... and the Smart has patents, AFAIK.

 

[Gransee]

I get the impression the windows interface is one of the Indium's top features that makes it different. And that interface is very refined. For the LS, it is just a minor feature and the interface is basic. It was added to help me with my tests. If people want it, we might make it available in some limited form. It is not presented as the first light with such a feature nor should people think that the feature is a big reason to buy the light.

The reason I spent more time talking about it compared to some of the other aspects of the light, is *because* the feature is so minor. That makes it a safe subject. The more important features would give too much information away to competitors.

I enjoy a professional relationship with Jon. Since we talk about a lot of things, he has known about the new LS much longer than most people. Of course, he knows it has a basic windows interface. If he had a problem with it, he would have told me a long time ago.

Peter

 

[Longbow]

lol??

Fenix doesn't even offer a microprocessor-controlled light yet...

Thank God!! But hey, different strokes for different folks.

 

[Gransee]

On another topic...

Besides McGizmo, I enlisted the help of several other CPF experts when designing the new LS:

Dat2zip
Newbie
CM
Lebkuecher

I also have presented various iterations to people like greenLED to get their opinion. This type of research is nothing new for me. Although I have *definate* opinions on what the finished product should do, I have no problem with bouncing various implimentations off people I trust.

Peter