The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (HOLA)

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pyro

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

[ QUOTE ]
js said:

Thus, it is well protected as it is



[/ QUOTE ]
ah, you are right.

Did i mention that i am interested? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Now i have to look for a M6 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

btw, the M3 LOLA MN15 runs at ~7V,
Probably this can be used as LOLA for the M6-R too.
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

pyro,

Indeed! MN15, eh? Yeah, thanks for the suggestion. I have been so focused on the HOLA and support hardware that I haven't even started to look into the M6-R LOLA situation. Good to know. Also, what about the N2? What voltage does that want? Maybe that's a possibility.
 

Kiessling

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

WoW !!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Two great innovations for the King of all lights!
Great work js! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Unfortunately I am out since it's rechargeable ...

bernhard
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

[ QUOTE ]
Kiessling said:
WoW !!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Two great innovations for the King of all lights!
Great work js! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Unfortunately I am out since it's rechargeable ...

bernhard

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernhard,

Why are you out? Because it's rechargeable? What do you mean? If you mean that you personally always steer clear of rechargeables, well then, OK, and that's too bad, because I was hoping you would want to be a field tester.

BUT, if you mean that you are out because the charger will not work in Germany, then, NO you are NOT out! All I need to do is get a power supply designed to turn your line voltage into 18VDC--not hard, and I'm sure that I can get Frame57 to find one for me. Or there's even the possibility of finding a universal supply that can work on all of the different line voltages out there.

So, which is it? Because I'm not about to let down CPFers on the other side of the ocean from me--I didn't for the TigerLight Upgrades and I won't for the M6-R.

Let me know.
 

pyro

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6

I don´t have a N2, but that should be very similar,
with better beam shape.

@Kiessling: you donßt have to recharge the pack,
throw it away after enjoying the full regulated runtime /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It is impressive that the rechargeable version is able to produce almost
the same runtime as with primary cells, and even brighter when the cr123
begin to loose their initial power.
what is the "real" runtime with MN21 on lithiums, not the 20 minutes from surefire?

another (stupid?) thought: what about using the LVR and 6 123cells in series?
this should provide about 15 mins regulated runtime or so, right?
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6

pyro,

According to many reports, the "20 minute" advertised runtime of the SF M6 is--*ahem*--rather optimistic. Plus, as mentioned, on 123's the brightness declines somewhat over the runtime, although as far as voltage vs. time curves go, they're pretty good.

So, the NiMH's actually more or less beat the Lithium 123's. hehe. It's due to the voltage drops in the lithium batteries from the internal resistance--the higher the current the worse the power loss in the cells. At 2.5 amps, you reach the point where so much power is lost that the NiMH chemistry becomes competitive. Yes, it's only 1.2 volts per cell, but high-rate NiMH batteries will hold that voltage under load.
 

Kiessling

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6

pyro /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

js .... it is because I really dislike rechargeables for numerous reasons. I won't go into this in order to maintain the integrity of your wonderful thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
I really appreciate your work and efforts, and am flattered that you'd thought of me for beta-testing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif.
Just in case you won't find a tester in good old Europe I will of course do any test you like on the improved King of all Lights, but I really don't think this will be a problem /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

BTW ... pyro's thought about 6x123 and the LVR is really intriguing! Is this possible? I'd be *very* interested in such a mod /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif !

bernhard
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6

OK Bernhard, no problem, and thanks for your discretion /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 

Ginseng

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

Nice work Jim. I've been waiting to see this hit the light of day and I suspect it'll be a great success. Congratulations on some very ingenious engineering.

Wilkey
skulking back to his bulbs and batteries
 

Prolepsis

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

Hi Jim! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have most of your TigerLight mods. Because of your mods, I sold my two M6s. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

1) I'll keep an eye out for TL charger system. I have a smart charger, but it doesn't make sense to remove the battery/LA each time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

2) I'm in for sure for your M6 rechargeable system. This just means that I'll have to track down an M6 again. I would love to field test, but I don't have an M6 at the moment, nor do any of my favourite dealers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

In fact, if I can track down two M6s, I'll take two battery packs. For now, put me down for one complete system (charger, battery, Jim fan club card, and so on) for sure!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Thanks again!
eric
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

Prolepsis,

If you have a smart charger already, all you need to do is buy a spare TL harness and send it to me--or better yet, I'll buy it for you--and then I can modify it so that you can plug it into your charger. (I assume it has banana plug receptacles).

Also, as I mentioned, instead of buying the whole charging system for the M6-R, all you need is a cable with the Molex micro-fit connector on one end, and two banana plugs on the other ends. Then you can use the smart charger you already own for your M6-R pack--but it needs to be a general type charger and not one made specifically for, say, a StreamLight Ultra Stinger or what-not.

As for field testing, I'd love it if you'd help me. We'll deal with getting you an M6 one way or another. Unless you say otherwise, I'll count you as one of the field testers.

Catdaddy, count yourself in the field testing as well.

On another note, the documentation with the MAX712 recommends providing a power source that is (1.9 volts*#cells+1.5 volts) to be "safe". I don't know what sort of batteries they are talking about, but after doing some testing, I can see that the maximum voltage across the packs during charging is less than 13.5 volts. Add 1.5 volts to that to account for the drop across the transistor and diode, and you get 15 volts. I already have some 15 volt 833 mA supplies, so I will try that in place of the 18 volt source I am currently using. No need to put extra load on the heat sink or transistor. I just need to change out a couple of resistors.

Also, if MAXIM-IC sells printed boards for this chip, that would save me a LOT of labor and would bring the cost down significantly. I'm looking into it today.
 

Prolepsis

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

Awesome, thanks Jim! I can also test your charger system, as one can never have too many chargers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I suspect that once word gets out about your project, more people will be interested. Why?
- easy to swap between the battery pack and a fully loaded 6x123 M6 cartridge - you can keep the spare 6x123 battery set nearby, and swap in the field quickly, if need be
- regulated
- warning flashes for when the battery needs to be recharged
- much cheaper to run in the long run

The only feedback I have at the moment is with regards to the soft-start feature of the LVR3I, though you already mentioned that you're seeing if you can reduce the soft-start time.

Sending you a PM with some extra details.

Thanks again,
eric
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

Prolepsis,

I hope you're right about more people becomming interested once the word gets out, but even so, right now there is enough interest for me to start the whole process rolling. There will definitely be a build run (assuming I remain alive and capable during the next few months).

I will reply to your PM tomorrow, as I have to get off line for now, but thanks for your encouraging words.

BTW, I'm getting a quote from MAXIM on the boards, but even if that doesn't work out, I've found some really nice proto-type boards with three hole and buss copper-plated soldering pads to make the job of making the circuit easier. Right now, my board has only plated (one side only) holes. (i.e. single hole solder pads). This is a bit annoying to work with, as far as I'm concerned. More tomorrow . . .
 

Prolepsis

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

Thanks Jim.

Absolutely no worries or rush with regards to my PM. My job is to stay out of your way so you can work on this project. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I can't wait to EDC an M6. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 

will7079

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

I will be in for one as well.

Will
 

J_Oei

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

I'm in. I already have the TL85 and a stock M6.
I also have my own Triton charger.

Let me know.

(Also, please include the fan club card...) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

I performed the resistor swap-out and tested the charging setup with the same wallwarts I use for the Tiger85 harness mods and it was a disaster! When they say "15VDC at 833 mA" they are . . . well . . . lying. First of all there is a significant AC ripple. Second, even the PEAK of the ripple is lower than 15 volts at 800 mA, and third, even the RMS voltage at 550 mA is less than 15 volts. So, the short of it is that this $5 wallwart will NOT work as a supply for the charging circuit.

When I tested it, it failed to stop fast charging and I finally had to disconnect the battery pack to prevent damage. So next, I decided that maybe it was because the pack had been fully charged just the day before, so I discharged it, and then started it charging with the M6-R charger + 15VDC wallwart. An hour and a half later it had prematurely ended the fast-charge. Oh well, the applications notes specifically warn you about these problems if the MAX712 is not adequately powered, AND they discuss the nominal ratings and ripple of wallwarts, and what the real output is like. So I was warned. Next I reconnected the 18VDC regulated supply and finished the fast-charge cycle. The circuit then worked flawlessly and terminated fast charge well before the pack was too warm.

But I still believe that the 18VDC regulated linear supply which I am currently using is too much of an overvoltage, so I am thinking of using a variable high-quality bench supply to see if a TRUE 15VDC source would be adequate, because I found a 15VDC switching power supply for $15. (The 18VDC regulated linear supply I am using right now is $10--but it weighs something on the order of 2 or 3 pounds, which really adds to the freight charges).

But even with the extra over-voltage the transistor junction temperature is well below it's maximum (150C) and I do like this monster linear supply--plus it's cheap.

I haven't done any more work on brightnorms M6-R pack, but I plan on finishing it this weekend, along with a couple other tasks on my priority list.

Oh, and a word on the zero delta-V MAX712 vs. the negative delta-V MAX713: the 712 only charges NiMH, while the 713 can do both NiMH and NiCd. However, the circuitry of the 712 keeps the peak cell temperature of the battery pack cooler than the 713 does, and by a significant margin. It works quite well, actually, even when charging a pack that is already pretty well at full charge. Some chargers will seriously overheat a battery pack in this state--I'm thinking of my Hitec CG-340 specifically, whose instructions warn the user against trying to charge a full pack.

So this is a very nice feature, and along with the transition to trickle charge after fast charge, means that you can always keep your pack nicely topped up, even on a daily basis if you wish.
 

js

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Re: The SF M6-R: a regulated rechargeable SF M6 (H

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
Nice work Jim. I've been waiting to see this hit the light of day and I suspect it'll be a great success. Congratulations on some very ingenious engineering.

Wilkey
skulking back to his bulbs and batteries

[/ QUOTE ]

Wilkey,

I just noticed the "skulking" bit. What's up with the skulking? Ixnay on the Ulking-skay! The creator of the preeminent AURORA should never deign to skulk: he should walk haughtily into a room and slap a few people here and there with a leather glove (just for good measure) and look distantly off into space. He is the true ubermensch, condescending to accept the adulation of flashaholics everywhere and always. (Of course, it is to be hoped that the JWX will be an even greater acheivement--well we can dream can't we? hehe.)
 
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