stoli67
Enlightened
I have tried number 1 on my Ti PDS and it worked very nicely.... one handed operation is now quite easy.
I will try number 2 on another light over the weekend
I will try number 2 on another light over the weekend
TiTi Twister lube
- Thread starter fyrstormer
- Start date
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fyrstormer
Banned
Cool! I'm actually surprised to hear TTT1 made your PD-S easier to turn (though it certainly should be smoother), as I created TTT2 to address the "problem" in my mind that some twisty lights were too difficult to twist using TTT1. However, if it works for you I'm certainly not going to disagree. I use TTT2 on my McLux3-T, which for some reason is a little harder to twist than my other PD-style lights.
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i got mine.
i'll be testing them out when i get some free time.
as for initial impression(s).
-my TTT1 sample seems to have developed some separation between its components. i can clearly see through the syringe that an oil-like substance has separated from the thicker substance. it looks like it's not a homogenous mixture anymore but i don't see any major issues with it since i should be able to mix them up again within the syringe.
-the TTT1 does smell kinda funky. i'm not detecting anything with the TTT2.
i'll be testing them out when i get some free time.
as for initial impression(s).
-my TTT1 sample seems to have developed some separation between its components. i can clearly see through the syringe that an oil-like substance has separated from the thicker substance. it looks like it's not a homogenous mixture anymore but i don't see any major issues with it since i should be able to mix them up again within the syringe.
-the TTT1 does smell kinda funky. i'm not detecting anything with the TTT2.
fyrstormer
Banned
Hmm. The TTT1 does separate a bit over time, though I'm surprised it happened so quickly with your sample. I'll have to revisit that to see if I can stabilize the mixture better.
RocketTomato
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2008
- Messages
- 475
Krytox oil thickened with Teflon is basically what Krytox grease is.
Does the Molybdenum disulfide additive you use stain clothes or skin?
fyrstormer
Banned
Yes, I use the pre-mixed Krytox grease in TTT2. For TTT1 I have to mix the Teflon and the petroleum oil myself.
It is *supposed* to be dry flakes, so they should wash off just fine -- but they are extremely small dry flakes, so I could envision them getting stuck in white cotton fabric and never completely washing out. However, I haven't had any staining issues that I've noticed in the couple years I've been testing the stuff.
gravelrash
Enlightened
I finally had some time to play with the TTT lube I received (thanks fyr!).
I tried the TTT1 on an Eagletac D25C Mini Titanium after a cleaning. I will admit that I did not use any solvent to clean the old lube, just a lot of work. It doesn't take much lube and TTT1 is thin enough that it seemed to "wick" a bit into the threads. This light has a twisty interface and it definitely felt smoother with the TTT1 lube. It still has a bit of a gritty feeling in the threads. Maybe gritty is too strong a word. I found that I can now use the light with one hand (mostly) reliably where I could not before - even the special modes. TTT1 is very dark; you know when you've got some on you. I will say that it does, as noted previously, have a smell. I guess I am more sensitive to it than others; it actually gave me a headache and made me nauseous for a few minutes. Next time I'll use it outside. I also noticed that it seemed to have a bit of "bind" when the head is tightened to the body and took a bit of torque from my hand to get it loose again. To be fair, it seemed to exhibit this same behavior with the factory lubrication.
I tried the TTT2 on my V10r Ti. This light does not have a twisty interface; it just screws together. After a good cleaning with a cloth I put a bit on. It is definitely thicker than TTT1 but still easy to apply. It seems to be a bit lighter in color than TTT1 but still dark. It does not have a smell that I could sense. The light was pretty smooth with TTT2 and exhibited less of the "bind" I felt with TTT1. I really like this lube.
Overall I like TTT2 better than TTT1, but to be fair I want to clean these two lights (my only TI lights), swap lubes and note any differences.
I would also like to try them on an HDS and a Surefire. Fyrstormer, do you recommend these lubes for non-TI lights?
I tried the TTT1 on an Eagletac D25C Mini Titanium after a cleaning. I will admit that I did not use any solvent to clean the old lube, just a lot of work. It doesn't take much lube and TTT1 is thin enough that it seemed to "wick" a bit into the threads. This light has a twisty interface and it definitely felt smoother with the TTT1 lube. It still has a bit of a gritty feeling in the threads. Maybe gritty is too strong a word. I found that I can now use the light with one hand (mostly) reliably where I could not before - even the special modes. TTT1 is very dark; you know when you've got some on you. I will say that it does, as noted previously, have a smell. I guess I am more sensitive to it than others; it actually gave me a headache and made me nauseous for a few minutes. Next time I'll use it outside. I also noticed that it seemed to have a bit of "bind" when the head is tightened to the body and took a bit of torque from my hand to get it loose again. To be fair, it seemed to exhibit this same behavior with the factory lubrication.
I tried the TTT2 on my V10r Ti. This light does not have a twisty interface; it just screws together. After a good cleaning with a cloth I put a bit on. It is definitely thicker than TTT1 but still easy to apply. It seems to be a bit lighter in color than TTT1 but still dark. It does not have a smell that I could sense. The light was pretty smooth with TTT2 and exhibited less of the "bind" I felt with TTT1. I really like this lube.
Overall I like TTT2 better than TTT1, but to be fair I want to clean these two lights (my only TI lights), swap lubes and note any differences.
I would also like to try them on an HDS and a Surefire. Fyrstormer, do you recommend these lubes for non-TI lights?
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fyrstormer
Banned
TTT2 seems to be the favorite thus far, which doesn't really surprise me; I didn't want to "go public" until I found a way around the smell of TTT1, even though it works well and doesn't really smell like anything when the light is in-use. Naturally, TTT2 is also far more expensive to make. :ironic: Thanks for the feedback though, it's great to see people are using it and liking it.
There will always be some roughness in Ti-on-Ti threads, even with my lubes, because my lubes introduce ceramic powder into the interface between the threads. However, what that ceramic powder accomplishes is it gets in the way and prevents the Ti from binding together on a microscopic level and tearing off little bits of itself, thus allowing the threads to self-polish over time the way steel and brass do. The roughness you feel now will taper off as the threads start to self-polish.
I suppose they would work on non-Ti lights, but for aluminum, brass, and steel I prefer wheel-bearing grease. If one of the thread pairs is Ti, liquid oil works better than grease, because Ti really needs a lube that can re-flow around the threads when they're twisted; for the brass-on-Ti threads on my Muyshondt and Jetbeam lights, I use Nano Oil. Nano Oil also works well on aluminum and steel, but I prefer the heavily-damped feel of wheel-bearing grease.
There will always be some roughness in Ti-on-Ti threads, even with my lubes, because my lubes introduce ceramic powder into the interface between the threads. However, what that ceramic powder accomplishes is it gets in the way and prevents the Ti from binding together on a microscopic level and tearing off little bits of itself, thus allowing the threads to self-polish over time the way steel and brass do. The roughness you feel now will taper off as the threads start to self-polish.
I suppose they would work on non-Ti lights, but for aluminum, brass, and steel I prefer wheel-bearing grease. If one of the thread pairs is Ti, liquid oil works better than grease, because Ti really needs a lube that can re-flow around the threads when they're twisted; for the brass-on-Ti threads on my Muyshondt and Jetbeam lights, I use Nano Oil. Nano Oil also works well on aluminum and steel, but I prefer the heavily-damped feel of wheel-bearing grease.
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fyrstormer
Banned
Yes, I do plan to offer it for sale. There are several ducks I have to line up, though, and there's this "life" thing that keeps distracting me from my hobbies with stuff like "working for a living", "cooking dinner", and "keeping the girlfriend happy". I will post a sale thread when I'm confident that I'm in a position to fill orders in a timely fashion.
tobrien
Flashlight Enthusiast
very nice man, i'll be first if draven doesn't beat me
PhotonFanatic
Flashlight Enthusiast
I find threads dealing with thread (no pun intended) lubrication to be fascinating, but somewhat off the mark.
I'd be much more interested in an analysis of thread surface finish and % of thread engagement, combined with various lubricants.
As one who has cut a fair number of threads in Ti, most of which have been very smooth, I will readily admit that there are outliers--some threads just come out not perfect and will require some further work, usually with diamond polishing compounds to remove the roughness. And then there are the really sad cases, where the threads seem perfectly normal, smooth, etc., and yet when you screw the pieces together, they gall--end of light. :-(
In my opinion, the few cases of galling have occurred when the thread engagement has been fairly large, like over 75%, and I have inadvertently over-tightened the pieces. The forces generated when screwing items together are incredible, and not to be taken lightly--so my advice is to never tighten Ti pieces together with any force.
However, in my experience, what makes for really smooth Ti threads has nothing to do with the lubricant, and everything to do with the surface finish on the threads--get the surface roughness down to next to nothing and you will have great threads that will not bind, will not feel rough or gritty (unless you get dirt in them), and will not require lubrication at all.
Can some lubricants improve poorly made threads--absolutely. Nano Oil does that, and from what I've read in this thread, fyrstormer's ceramic powder may be doing the same thing.
My advice, though, for those who have gritty threads? First, get them absolutely clean, or as clean as possible. I like to wash them in boiling water with dishwashing detergent, in lieu of an ultrasonic cleaner, but if you have an ultrasonic cleaner, use that. Second, invest in some diamond lapping compounds--I'd suggest a range from 18 microns down to 1micron. Start by applying a small amount on opposite sides of the male threads, apply some light oil, and then with a light touch thread the pieces together and keep going back and forth, screwing/unscrewing, until you reach the end of the threads. Remove the compounds and drop down to the finer grade.
Is that a lot of work? Yes it is, but once you've done it, let me know how they feel. :devil:
I'd be much more interested in an analysis of thread surface finish and % of thread engagement, combined with various lubricants.
As one who has cut a fair number of threads in Ti, most of which have been very smooth, I will readily admit that there are outliers--some threads just come out not perfect and will require some further work, usually with diamond polishing compounds to remove the roughness. And then there are the really sad cases, where the threads seem perfectly normal, smooth, etc., and yet when you screw the pieces together, they gall--end of light. :-(
In my opinion, the few cases of galling have occurred when the thread engagement has been fairly large, like over 75%, and I have inadvertently over-tightened the pieces. The forces generated when screwing items together are incredible, and not to be taken lightly--so my advice is to never tighten Ti pieces together with any force.
However, in my experience, what makes for really smooth Ti threads has nothing to do with the lubricant, and everything to do with the surface finish on the threads--get the surface roughness down to next to nothing and you will have great threads that will not bind, will not feel rough or gritty (unless you get dirt in them), and will not require lubrication at all.
Can some lubricants improve poorly made threads--absolutely. Nano Oil does that, and from what I've read in this thread, fyrstormer's ceramic powder may be doing the same thing.
My advice, though, for those who have gritty threads? First, get them absolutely clean, or as clean as possible. I like to wash them in boiling water with dishwashing detergent, in lieu of an ultrasonic cleaner, but if you have an ultrasonic cleaner, use that. Second, invest in some diamond lapping compounds--I'd suggest a range from 18 microns down to 1micron. Start by applying a small amount on opposite sides of the male threads, apply some light oil, and then with a light touch thread the pieces together and keep going back and forth, screwing/unscrewing, until you reach the end of the threads. Remove the compounds and drop down to the finer grade.
Is that a lot of work? Yes it is, but once you've done it, let me know how they feel. :devil:
fyrstormer
Banned
Interesting to have a machinist's perspective on the issue. Thread quality is definitely a concern, as even macroscopically-smooth threads are still microscopically rough, and most titanium lights don't even achieve macroscopic smoothness. Pretty much every titanium light I own, except for a few custom-made pieces, have required cleaning machining debris out of the threads, which is always "fun", because titanium splinters may be super-thin and flexible, but they'll cling to the threads by their still-attached end with incredible strength for their size.
However, I have cleaned titanium threads with boiling water, solvents, and manual scrubbing many times, and sometimes polished them too (though not with diamond compounds), and the grittiness always returns eventually. You're certainly correct that smooth clean threads are far better than rough dirty threads, and making sure the threads are clean and free of burrs and splinters is of course the first step. However, due to the nature of titanium, even mirror-smooth threads will eventually become rough again, as the soft oxide layer scrubs off unevenly and exposes the underlying metal to direct contact in some spots and not others.
There is also the issue of accumulated dirt -- I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've never managed to keep the threads on my lights perfectly clean of lint and tiny bits of dirt indefinitely, and those get wedged in the threads and start scratching things up, accelerating the breakdown of whatever polished surface you may have managed to achieve. Periodic refinishing is a valid option for those who have the patience, but I prefer to take the approach of modifying the frictional interaction between the threads using a good lubricant so I don't need to worry about whether the threads are perfectly clean and smooth. That's why I spent so much of my free time developing TiTi Twister in the first place.
- - -
Speaking of which, I've ordered the materials to make for-sale batches of TTT1 and TTT2. This isn't a sale thread, obviously, but I will open one when the lube is ready, which should be sometime next week.
However, I have cleaned titanium threads with boiling water, solvents, and manual scrubbing many times, and sometimes polished them too (though not with diamond compounds), and the grittiness always returns eventually. You're certainly correct that smooth clean threads are far better than rough dirty threads, and making sure the threads are clean and free of burrs and splinters is of course the first step. However, due to the nature of titanium, even mirror-smooth threads will eventually become rough again, as the soft oxide layer scrubs off unevenly and exposes the underlying metal to direct contact in some spots and not others.
There is also the issue of accumulated dirt -- I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've never managed to keep the threads on my lights perfectly clean of lint and tiny bits of dirt indefinitely, and those get wedged in the threads and start scratching things up, accelerating the breakdown of whatever polished surface you may have managed to achieve. Periodic refinishing is a valid option for those who have the patience, but I prefer to take the approach of modifying the frictional interaction between the threads using a good lubricant so I don't need to worry about whether the threads are perfectly clean and smooth. That's why I spent so much of my free time developing TiTi Twister in the first place.
- - -
Speaking of which, I've ordered the materials to make for-sale batches of TTT1 and TTT2. This isn't a sale thread, obviously, but I will open one when the lube is ready, which should be sometime next week.
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fyrstormer
Banned
Well, that took longer than expected. However, a nice fresh batch of TiTi Twister II is mixed, packaged, labeled, and ready for sale. The sale thread is over on CPF Marketplace.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/deusexaethera/sales/CIMG5247.jpg
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http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/deusexaethera/sales/CIMG5247.jpg
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fyrstormer
Banned
Plenty still available for sale here if anyone wants some.
127.0.0.1
Flashlight Enthusiast
coupla months now using TiTi 2, on what was a gritty-arse Ti light
only seems to get smoother over time if anything..turned a 30-grit scrape onto butter
only seems to get smoother over time if anything..turned a 30-grit scrape onto butter
Onthelightside
Enlightened
Very cool stuff. I don't own any titanium lights (too expensive) but this seems like a great product. I am a Chemical Engineering student and I find it quite amusing that you made this in your kitchen 
.
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fyrstormer
Banned
Glad it continues to work well for you.
fyrstormer
Banned
Sadly, I lack an out-building that I can put a machine shop in, unlike some of the more rural CPF contributors, so my kitchen will have to do.Very cool stuff. I don't own any titanium lights (too expensive) but this seems like a great product. I am a Chemical Engineering student and I find it quite amusing that you made this in your kitchen
It just gives me an incentive to be extra careful.Used on my ET D25am Ti. Threads were gritty. But, I'd been twisting it off an on since I got it, when ever they came out. It had smoothed somewhat, but wasn't as nice as I wanted. So decided to give this a shot. A significant improvement. Just as easy for one hand now as my old jb cle and pd1. Quite impressed. Well worth the cost. And if it improves with time, even better.
As I doubt any manufacturer aside from custom types will go to the extent of diamond polishing for threads, this lube is needed. Thanks.
As I doubt any manufacturer aside from custom types will go to the extent of diamond polishing for threads, this lube is needed. Thanks.
