Tritium zip pull..

[toby_pra]

Established craftsmen - how come? Toby either deliberately misleads you guys here or knows nothing about machining. Read his posts. I am a mechanical engineer, all aspects of my product such as design, development and manufacture are controlled by me. If you want to believe things that simply are not true, suit yourself.

HOW longe do i need to accept these insults and accusations???

Where mods are you?

I NEVER said that i am a engineer; i am leo. You have read my posts? Read my posts!
I always told that this is my design idea, a good freind of mine is an engineer and
converts my ideas and these will be milled by a german milling department
with an very good reputaion. That was never secret.

I do anodize, beadblast them, put lanyards on it, and i put the tritium in it, fix
it with norland, all learned by myself.

Whats your problem man!!! First you copy me design, then you blame me!

 

[Robocop]

Gentlemen I have not read through this thread completely however briefly skimming over it I can see there are some problems. I have no idea if any moderation has been issued however none the less it appears that there should be.

Honestly much of this should be discussed by PM and until I can read through all of it I suggest to all involved to simply stop with the drama. Mostly CPF has a policy to not become involved with private transactions however it is often necessary to moderate threads where the content of the thread will disrupt the group as a whole.

As far as any misconduct is concerned our members here are smart enough to decide on their own and should be allowed to do so without any insults or drama. Honestly I would like to catch up on this much more before taking any action. It may be possible that no action need be taken other than to warn everyone involved to remain civil. Again transactions between members usually work themselves out however rudeness, speculation, and insults will not be tolerated.

For now my response to this is more along the lines of a fellow member rather than that of a moderator. If there is in fact some type of patent violation by all means follow up with some action with the proper persons. If there is not proper evidence to support such a claim then it is what it is and each member can decide to either support or not support any certain person.

Again we at CPF will try hard to remain neutral on these type situations however if it becomes a source of trouble for the membership we will have no choice. I feel sure those involved know how to be adults and can resolve this without speculation or insults. Carry on gentlemen and allow me a little time to read through this please.

 

[toysareforboys]

Very professional reply Robocop!!

I hope you have a stronger opinion once you read the entire thread.

If I was a mod, as a "penalty" to St. John for coming up with such a "similar" design, punishment would be that St. John would have to give credit to, and a link to, any of Toby's current products (possibly not even related to the pulls, if he chooses to no longer manufacture them) in ANY of his posts, like every single post, maybe as a signature, as well as any "for sale" postings, etc.

Harsh I know, but hey, Toby was here first

And Toby, please, four crits in your new design!!!

-Jamie M.

 

[Silgt]

Why should St.John be "penalized" until he can show his final work and disclose his designing process? If he indeed did infringed on Toby's original design, then members will make their own choice with their wallets, or Toby could indeed take proper legal actions, or they could work it out by themselves. But I would think St.John, being an engineer should be able to come out with a different design with a unique signature all to its own so we don't have to have these dramas here!

I have not the privilege to hold Toby's original design but only seen them via photographs and at first glance they might looked similar but since St.John have already mentioned his design is different, and right now I am not in a position to tell until I can compare both side by side....work it out guys I don't think it is so bad that proper negotiations cannot take place behind the scene to resolve this. We the community will benefit with better and more cost effective products being made available!

 

[Robocop]

As a group we should not have to have to figure out the details of patents or design. Yes they are of very similiar design and I have no idea if they are different enough to satisfy any claimed patent filing. My point on this is simple and it is that if it is a valid violation then to the patent holder move forward with whatever decision you wish however do so away from this forum.

If it is a known violation then to you stjohn I suggest you make sure and know the rules of this forum on illegal activities. I am trying to stay neutral to both parties however if worst comes to worst I will shut down the entire process simply for no other reason than to keep our forum free from heated dispute.

As a fellow member I have my personal opinion that I will keep to myself. As a moderator again I must remain neutral and do what is best for this forum as a whole. Gentlemen I do feel for you both and again stress that this issue can be worked out in private. If legal action must follow it should not include the forum members as this will obviously create two distinct sides and lead to trouble among us all.

As far as any unique punishments are concerned we simply do not do that. The choices are simple as in it usually begins with a warning then advances to a few days away or if need be a permanent ban from our group. History has shown us that if we allow things to "brew" it results in major disruptions with the whole forum. I say this again to all involved simply do what is right. If you do not wish to do it for yourself or for me do it for the forum as a whole.

To the other spectators I understand your intentions may be good however to add speculation does nothing but cause others to do the same. Eventually we have many angry members over something that simply did not have to be. As far as new products and competition being good for us all I agree to a point. If it is a violation of criminal, civil, or patent laws then we would all be guilty of being selfish to allow that for our personal purchasing of new toys.

I have read this through and again as a member formed my own opinion. As a moderator I have no way of proving a violation exist and as such for now will warn all involved to keep this in private. If I have reason to move forward I will do so however keep in mind I do not need others piling on what they think we should do based on speculation.

I will discuss with my fellow mods and perhaps they may add something to this however for now it is simple.....keep the insults,speculation, and emotion away from this thread. Good luck gentlemen.

 

[toby_pra]

To me its simple...there is a similar design. In no
way different enuogh to talk of an own design. Many
people here think the same.

And as it is not by far enuogh he blames me and
talks of misleading. I cant believe it. He does not stop.
I thuoght its enuogh now...

 

[Robocop]

Toby trust me I understand however again if indeed you have a legal grounds in your country to move forward do so and I will keep the drama from this thread. If in fact I find reason to believe others are misleading our members or in violation of any laws I will take action.

I know many here think the same however allowing our members to choose sides is only asking for trouble in many ways. If the majority of our members agree with you they can do so in many ways other than stirring the pot here. This is an issue that can effect our group here in a positive way as much as a negative way. I assure you that if we allow our members to whip this into a frenzy it can only have one effect and that will be in a bad way.

I do agree it is enough now and as such I have stepped in to stop the insults and rude behavior. As far as the actual dispute we have no way of knowing the true details at this time. Give me a little time to discuss this issue and there may be future moderation coming. As for now I do trust my addition to this thread is very well understood.

To all other members please leave your opinions to yourself for now and to Toby and stjohn try to discuss this by PM or email. If you have anything to add or simply disagree please contact me by PM. I work late shift and will not be available until later tonight....thanks for the time.

After further thought I have decided to close this thread and ask any further discussion be taken to private.