USPS again

[Gransee]

I got this email this morning:



I had botten a arc aaa a couple weeks ago and shipped through fedex. Got my light in 4 days and was so happy with it I ordered another one a day later. Shipped through USPS and i never got the package. I know you have a disclaimer about USPS but if lights get stolen you should not even give the option!! If I donot get my light I will cancle my payment and you will not get paid!



If you remember, years ago we only offered FedEx as an option because of the problems with USPS. You begged me to provide USPS as an option and I finally did but on the condition it was your responsibility. It also says this on our website. This person evidently knows about this already.

First off, if you don't know already: it is our experience that USPS looses more packages than Fedex. Occasionally we will get people who can't believe USPS looses packages. Simply: they don't have experience shipping as many packages as we do. When you ship a small number and have no problems, this is called anecdotal evidence. Same thing if you walk into a casino and hear machines paying out. Typically, USPS looses about 6 of our packages each Christmas. The claims process takes usually 90 days and they rarely pay out. This costs money.

Another thing people may not understand. The concept of Transparent Cost. Question: When we pay for a lost package or spend time on a claim, who really pays for this in the end? If you are customer who always selects FedEx and never has a problem, are you ok with paying a small amount on your next order for the customers who choose USPS? If we are refunding lost shipments then you are doing this anyways. Wealth redistribution. Taking the money of responsible people to pay for the decisions of those who like to take bigger risks for the chance of an immediate payout.

If you are the person taking the risks, you want other people to foot the bill when your chute doesn't open. If you are the person who is more careful and works hard for a living, the feeling is a bit different. We want people to be well and make good choices. Maybe the best way to do that is to let them experience the full result of their choices from time to time.

How would you respond to the customer above? Usually people ask for an exception in their case, admit their mistake, etc, In that case, we choose to take your money (by spreading the costs) to provide them assistance. But what about a person who doesn't think they choose a risky path and has a sense of entitlement? Do you still want to pay for his mistake?

peter

 

[Manzerick]

I donot get my light I will cancle my payment and you will not get paid!

WOW!! It seems so bold that one would choose to use the non-prefered method of shipping (for this very good reason!) and then try to pull a childish game of "It's my ball... I'm going home".


Sorry to hear of this Peter!!! What goes around...ehhh.... nvm

 

[mraymer]

I use the USPS for shipping all the time, 2-3 day priority mail. I've never had an issue with it or a package lost. However, admittedly, I'm sure I don't ship out anywhere near the number of parcels you do. I always use delivery confirmation. This makes it easier to determine where something got lost. I know the item was delivered and if there's an issue with delivery it's easier to track down. This proves the item was shipped, allows you to track it and whether or not it was delivered and it only costs an extra .65 cents. In my opinion, it's well worth the piece of mind it provides.

 

[orcinus]

Just my humble opinion, but USPS should be left as an option for international customers. I've had only the worst experiences with my local FedEx service provider (in 10/10 cases over a period of 1 year or so) and only the best experiences with USPS international services (ranging from 1st class, over priority to EMS).

In my experience, FedEx turned out to be unreliable, incompetent, slow (10-14 days for shipping and 7 or more days stuck locally for processing) and much more expensive for international shipments.

 

[Gransee]

Because we ship enough volume with USPS, we get delivery confirmation and tracking number for each package for "no extra charge". Of course, not a lot of help if it is lost while in the USPS system, which is usually what happens. As you know, the USPS tracking number doesn't provide the detail a FedEx tracking number does. When a package is lost, all it says is that USPS has it but no indication which depot exactly.

Usually, people are very polite when they email us so we just send them another flashlight. The email above was the first indication the package didn't arrive, he admits he knows our policy and yet decided to not ask politely. Not a typical email of course.

Anyways, in the age of "bailouts" and "openness", I figured I would see what you guys thought about your costs being affected by other people's decision to take on additional risk.

peter

 

[GLOCK18]

I use USPS to ship 20 to 30 packages a week, I don't give buyers a choice on insurance it is required. I've never lost a package so far.

 

[NeonLights]

I work in the shipping industry (for the "other" company, not FedEx or USPS) and personally handle a million packages a year at work, and I realize some of the different things that can happen to a package in transit. I've used both FedEx and USPS options from Arc in the past, and have not had a problem with either, although I do realize I'm taking a chance with USPS. If I had an issue with USPS shipping, I'd do what I could locally through my PO, but definitely wouldn't take it out on Peter/Arc. It is my experience that most packages that get lost/damaged/destroyed in transit are due to just those issues, not theft. Sure it does occur on occasion, but it is rare. Why would a person risk a good-paying job and interstate theft charges for a $40-50 light?

The person who sent that email to Peter about cancelling payment is way off base, and frankly should be ashamed of themselves. They read the disclaimer, took a chance, and it didn't work out for them. Their fault, not Peters. I have had problems with USPS shipping in the past, but I don't recall anything not showing up, but sometimes packages were damaged with contents missing, or I'd receive the package a very long time later, like 4-6 weeks. This disgruntled customer who is threatening to cheat Peter out of his money sounds like the kind of person who wouldn't notify Peter if the package showed up weeks later, he'd likely just keep the light and the money. Shame on him.

 

[paulr]

Really, I don't think ideological stubbornness about USPS reliability is that useful to a flashlight business. I dunno how many packages USPS actually loses, but I'd be amazed if it was more than 1%. So if a package got lost (no delivery confirmation) and you simply sent out another one and ate the cost, even counting it at full retail value that would add 50 cents or so to the cost of an AAA-GS. Since the cost differential between USPS and Fedex is much more than 50 cents, it's better to just build the lost package cost into the retail price and replace a package once in a while, rather than ask the customer to pay several dollars extra for Fedex shipping that can't be 100% reliable either. I'd make USPS the default way to ship.

 

[russthetoolman]

Peter, hear this and see the smile on my face as I tell you as a friend...
Well, you know better, so when are you going to stop offering USPS?

Russ

 

[cree_buyer]

USPS, yeah... I only had problems with them damaging stuff I ship out especially in bigger boxes. USPS Priority Mail and USPS Priority International Mail service is a Top Notch service, it includes a $100 USD insurance... their supplied priority envelops and boxes are excellent for what I do! Sorry to hear about disgruntled customers from no fault of your own...

 

[AMRaider]

To whoever lost their light, I am sorry, but the words on Arc's website "at your own risk" would seem to apply here.

I once lost a package which had a value several times that of an Arc AAA. You know who's fault it was? It was mine because I opted for no signature required for delivery. The neighborhood in which I live has been going downhill for some time now, and I suspect one of the neighborhood goons grabbed it while it was sitting on the doorstep.

Anyway, I learned my lesson the hard way and I now know better. To whoever lost their light, your life lesson may have been cheaper than mine, but I think you can still learn something from it.

 

[kelmo]

Let him cancel the payment. Then defend your position with the credit card company, Paypal or whatever instrument the buyer used to pay for the transaction with. You do clearly state your position on the USPS option on your website. If you send out a replacement, you're still out $50. What have you got to lose?

Caveat emptor.

 

[Robocop]

You know this makes me a little angry and I am wondering if some people simply do not understand what a disclaimer is. It is simple black and white with no grey area at all.....no guarantee on USPS. The dealer stated clearly his terms and the buyer chose those terms what is so hard to understand about that I would ask from the buyer.

I as well as others have no doubt that the item was shipped as agreed and any fault would be that of the USPS. We have some very good dealers on CPF and many of them would go very far to help out a customer however after listing a disclaimer with warnings I know of no dealers who would assume the liability of loss to a buyer with a lost shipment.

I would ask the buyer to take this issue up with the USPS and in the very least assume some responsibility for this situation....good luck regardless.

 

[Gransee]

update: I got an email from the dad and he said the package came in later. So, it sounds like everything is resolved.

peter

 

[Cuso]

update: I got an email from the dad and he said the package came in later. So, it sounds like everything is resolved.

peter

So this was some kid using his "dad's" credit?? NO wonder...

 

[vol89]

Dear Sir, I have purchased over 6 lights from ARC and had them all shipped through the USPS when available without any issues. The USPS has some of the best investigators on record. A postal inspector will track down the package. I have complete faith in the USPS.

 

[Wattnot]

I'm glad to hear this has a happy ending.

These shipping issues come up on virutally every forum I participate in. These days of technology have brought about a massive (and growing exponentially) mail order market with virtual stores all over the world. It's really changing everything.

Generally, the shipper is responsible for the package until it arrives at it's destination (I said generally). It's wise that you put the onus back on anyone who choses USPS. However, if the buyer does a chargeback, it will most likely stick. The credit card companies will look at what they consider the bottom line: Guy paid, guy didn't receive item. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying from what I've heard and seen, this is usually the outcome. If you accept Paypal, be REAL careful because they are WAY TOO protective of the buyer. There is a movement by some Ebay sellers (they even put up their own site but I don't remember the URL) against Paypal because they've lost so much money. I personally know TWO sellers who PROVED the person received the item and STILL LOST both the money and the item!

So what I would suggest to our mechants here is not disclaimers but mandatory insurance. I've heard of problems with ALL of the carriers but if USPS is where you feel you need the protection, then make the buyer pay for insurance. Not only will you have an easier time getting reimbursed but the post office will pay more attention to an insured item being lost over a non-insured one since they are on the hook for actual cash instead of just pissing you off by losing it!

 

[blub]

I have never lost anything using USPS after shipping probably 700-800 packages, except when I sent some knives to Canada, three made it, someone stole one out of the box and I'm guessing it was Customs. Of course it was one of few times I didn't buy insurance.:sigh:

 

[Timmee]

I got this email this morning:



I had botten a arc aaa a couple weeks ago and shipped through fedex. Got my light in 4 days and was so happy with it I ordered another one a day later. Shipped through USPS and i never got the package. I know you have a disclaimer about USPS but if lights get stolen you should not even give the option!! If I donot get my light I will cancle my payment and you will not get paid!



If you remember, years ago we only offered FedEx as an option because of the problems with USPS. You begged me to provide USPS as an option and I finally did but on the condition it was your responsibility. It also says this on our website. This person evidently knows about this already.

First off, if you don't know already: it is our experience that USPS looses more packages than Fedex. Occasionally we will get people who can't believe USPS looses packages. Simply: they don't have experience shipping as many packages as we do. When you ship a small number and have no problems, this is called anecdotal evidence. Same thing if you walk into a casino and hear machines paying out. Typically, USPS looses about 6 of our packages each Christmas. The claims process takes usually 90 days and they rarely pay out. This costs money.

Another thing people may not understand. The concept of Transparent Cost. Question: When we pay for a lost package or spend time on a claim, who really pays for this in the end? If you are customer who always selects FedEx and never has a problem, are you ok with paying a small amount on your next order for the customers who choose USPS? If we are refunding lost shipments then you are doing this anyways. Wealth redistribution. Taking the money of responsible people to pay for the decisions of those who like to take bigger risks for the chance of an immediate payout.

If you are the person taking the risks, you want other people to foot the bill when your chute doesn't open. If you are the person who is more careful and works hard for a living, the feeling is a bit different. We want people to be well and make good choices. Maybe the best way to do that is to let them experience the full result of their choices from time to time.

How would you respond to the customer above? Usually people ask for an exception in their case, admit their mistake, etc, In that case, we choose to take your money (by spreading the costs) to provide them assistance. But what about a person who doesn't think they choose a risky path and has a sense of entitlement? Do you still want to pay for his mistake?

peter

As a postal employee, if your customer wants you to send it USPS, I'd recommend shipping high value items registered, as any postal employee that handles the package is required to sign for it. Also, when the registered item isn't in transit or out for delivery, it is held under lock and key. If a registered item goes awol, then it's easier to track down, as they should have an internal record of the last person to have handled the item.

 

[parnass]

Welcome to CPF, Timmee. Thanks for the info about USPS registered mail.