Why no P60 talk anymore?

[KITROBASKIN]

So many fine flashlights these days. No way will the P60 format be as popular as it once was. Personally, the Oveready Z bodies still ring the bell. We do not have an XP-G2 Hi that can make that small sized reflector work as a 'medium thrower' but with multiple emitters we can get a plenty decent area-light in a P60. And for a general purpose light, it is fine. PFlexPRO is working on a heat transfer technique in their SolarForce hosts that does allow simple 'plug and play' with dropins. Taking some time with wrapping seems to work fine for many of us, Even the scorchers.

 

[stephenk]

With so many decent budget lights from the likes of Convoy and Thorfire, which cost far less than many P60 drop-ins, there is little reason for the majority to continue down the P60 route.

 

[F89]

With so many decent budget lights from the likes of Convoy and Thorfire, which cost far less than many P60 drop-ins, there is little reason for the majority to continue down the P60 route.

Well the majority can have them.
There's nothing like a good P60 drop in, particularly in a 6P, and surely enough there are still plenty of awesome ones being made either off the shelf or as a kit. I'll never turn my back on the P60 drop in.

 

[texas cop]

The P60 is so flexible with the many dropin's, batteries and accessories. It's still my number one light. I'd like to see some new host in 20700 and/or 21700 sizes to take advantage of triple and quad dropin's or much extended run times. XHP35's with newer boost converter boards for throw or XHP50's and 70's for flood. Interest has slowed but great potential still exist.

 

[ChibiM]

Thanks guys for all your insight.

But outside the Malkoff junky thread there isn't much talk about it.

One thing in particular that attracts me to the p60 model is that the parts are easily replacable and upgradable, and once a new LED is out, you can buy a new drop in, or just without too much hassle replace the LED board.
Newer lights (especially with side switches) are much harder to open and repair, and after 1 year they are old, and spare parts are difficult to find etc.
But again, it might have been the lumen wars that dropped these out of interest by the marjority?

 

[Rob Babcock]

Yeah, that modularity is key for me. I can keep using the same bodies/hosts forever practically, they're well made. If there's some radical improvement in LEDs or great new emitters come out eventually Gene will incorporate them into his next gen of dropins. Will there be a day when no one wants P60 parts? I suppose that's possible. There are plenty of turnkey lights by a wide variety of makers. But the 6P and compatible hosts keep getting the job done for me, and I have other lights if I want uber high power.

 

[scout24]

I just got a Yuji'd P60 today. 3200 to boot.

:thumbsup: Those led legs aren't soldered, but held in with the spring tension. Won't go anywhere. I'd run one of those since MaTumba's last group buy with no troubles.

I think everyone gets hung up on heat dissipation with P60's, but show me a same sized light with big output that DOESN'T step down fast. (2x18350, 1x18650) The P60 platform is no better or worse than lights of equal mass in my opinion. It does however have a HUGE advantage of aftermarket parts support, modularity, and near instant interchangability. Bykfixer can swap that 5mm Yuji running on a single primary with dummy cell in his 6P for an Oveready Lux-RC powered 3000+ lumen Triple fed by 2x18350 faster than I typed this sentence if he wanted to. Can't beat that with a stick. Nobody will be able to tell me different. (Stubborn old man warning) Feel free to try to convince me, though. It's the small block Chevy of the flashlight world in an era where everyone's saying "Look how fast my Honda or Subaru is!!! No offense to Hondas or Subarus, but you didn't invent the wheel.

 

[Jose Marin]

60k lux xpg2 de dome 6p

 

[Modernflame]

60k lux xpg2 de dome 6p

That's impressive! Can you say a bit more about that drop in?

 

[peter yetman]

Modularity is what does it for me.
I love the fact that P60 based lights can mostly be taken apart and busted bits replaced.
I've replaced evry part of my original MD2, is it the same light?
P

 

[ven]

WOW love that beam Jose, awesome!

I love and can talk p60's all day long, my fav platform for sure. I can not see anything changing any time soon. As with others, love the flexibility, swap hosts, swap engines.............heads,tail caps etc.

I use p60's in work and have done for years. In fact my latest work light is a z2

3 of my work lights, all p60's here(have more but not in pic)OR 219b mule, 219b triple and 219c triple

p60's, mules and triples/quads mainly
p60vn quad 219c

p60vn triple 219c

Sportac triples offer excellent value imo, love their 219b and 219c flavours

Yep, i love p60's

Few others

Other hosts

Quad 219b 4000k h17f

Incand to

Some quad p60s with other quads, as much as i like them all a lot, the p60 format does have a little more size/mass(host dependent, but generally speaking) over many 18650 lights.

I can run a quad with over 1000lm for decent times, bump it up to 3000+ if/when needed. Cant do that with smaller lights like the D4. When wrapping them, i always check them and how heat is dissipated to the host, making sure its adequate in case the need for it being used in anger. Still most of my uses in work are sub 200, home similar. But when i need say 5-600lm i dont have to worry about a red hot light. Then host options, swap and change, different applications or p60's could mean swapping to a more suitable host. My single mode sportac 219b lives in a cooly for now, no worried of using that for long periods for example. Bonus of ~5000mah 26650 tank as well!

My work ones are continually gaining patina which is cool

Someone mention p60?

 

[bykfixer]

I'll try to put this to a perspective along the lines Scout24 began.

In the P60 heyday CNN was the only source of news besides the big 3 and PBS (Maglite, Streamlight and Ray-o-everything else).
You wanted news any time of day, you watched CNN. Want small and bright, P60.

Today there are dozens of "news channels" using lots of platforms to perform the task so the audience has become split amongst the group. CNN no longer has ratings with the same dominance they once had and P60 has lots of competition as well.

But what is the benchmark in 2018? CNN and the P60.

Plus user serviceable has become a novel idea in the market place as well. The masses prefer cheap, disposable products instead.

Now regarding the small block Chevy.... yup good reference. It is still the CNN of the racing community.
When I'm at a red light in my 91 Honda Prelude with it's pop up headlights and slight wisp of oil smoke due to ring issues from an aneamic 2.1 litre engine, the classic car driving fellows rev their engines in taunt. But when I pull up beside them in my whisper quiet 97 model with its 60mph in 2nd gear ability with 3 more to go..... they decide to change the radio station, or check their nose for hair in the rear view mirror. lol. :nana:

The bi-pin Yugi is quite possibly another soon to be user serviceable popular adaptation for the P60 platform. Now that the bright, brighter, brightest LED lumen wars has begun to go the way of news channels... off in niche directions and "good enough" with an uber runtime phenomenon is begininng to take shape, the P60 module with an already burnt bulb is a "small block Chevy" just waiting to be built.

Coming soon to an eBay listing? "bare P60 modules"....

 

[Timothybil]

The P60 is so flexible with the many dropin's, batteries and accessories. It's still my number one light. I'd like to see some new host in 20700 and/or 21700 sizes to take advantage of triple and quad dropin's or much extended run times. XHP35's with newer boost converter boards for throw or XHP50's and 70's for flood. Interest has slowed but great potential still exist.

I think with the larger cell sizes the D36 drop ins, rarer though they are, would probably be a better fit. That extra 10mm of reflector diameter gives a light that can better utilize the extra capacities of these larger cells.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Mtnelectronics offers a dedomed XP-G2 S2(?) 0D that throws like Jose Marin's and has a decent tint, but it is not quite up to snuff when paired with an incredibly wonderful tint XPL Hi 5200K V3-3A quad by PFlexPRO. (Dog's white/light tan fur has a slight, but distracting green cast with the dedome). By itself, not directly used with another flashlight, the dedome really is fine. Maybe Oveready will make a redomed XP-G2?

Oveready used to make a 26650 P60 host that I've been using the most for quads and triples these last couple years. Fed with the new Orbtronic high-drain/high-capacity cells with the PflexPRO solid copper P60 module, it Does the extended-runtime job for sure. It is so, so not necessary to carry a larger light for massive area-light up to 80 meters or so.

Ven is so right when he talks about the Emisar D4 throttling down or it will burn itself up after about 23 seconds full-on, when a lot of light is called for. For some, that system is OK for short burst needs.

Apologies for the over-enthusiastic response.

 

[Timothybil]

Thanks guys for all your insight.

But outside the Malkoff junky thread there isn't much talk about it.

One thing in particular that attracts me to the p60 model is that the parts are easily replacable and upgradable, and once a new LED is out, you can buy a new drop in, or just without too much hassle replace the LED board.
Newer lights (especially with side switches) are much harder to open and repair, and after 1 year they are old, and spare parts are difficult to find etc.
But again, it might have been the lumen wars that dropped these out of interest by the marjority?

There isn't much to talk about, because they aren't new any more. Standalone P60 drop ins were a big thing when we were doing the first transition from incandescent to LED. They stayed a topic of conversation as they moved up the LED ladder as new LEDs and drivers were developed. They are now about as mature as they are going to get. Admit it, we talk about something because it is new and we want to share it, or it has problems and we want to warn others/fix it.

The other thing is that almost all of the new development in LEDs is going to larger dies, which don't fit well into the P60 format. The P60 is already fighting the relatively small reflector size and depth, and the larger, hotter dies just can't be shoehorned into that form factor.

I've got four real live incan P60s sitting on my shelf because as soon as I got my P60 hosts - a G2 and a 6P - I dropped in LED P60s. The one I like the most is the CUXM/CUXP with a Nichia emitter in OP I got from Mountain Electronics. For a while there I was chasing the throw demon and didn't use my P60 lights much, but I'm over that now and back to appreciating how nice it is to have a 6P just sitting there being available when I need to grab a basic light.

 

[Jose Marin]

That's impressive! Can you say a bit more about that drop in?

It was originally a vinh p60 but wanted the customizable pflex pro ap driver instead. I had randy move the led to his driver because this particular xpg2 from vinh is brighter, higher lux and good tint compared to my other xpg2 de dome direct drives. Kind of curious if anyone has the osram oslon black flat in a p60 and what kind of throw they're getting. That would most likely be the replacement for this one

 

[cp2315]

You can look for some more info in pflexpro drop in thread. I have two p60 drop ins from Randy. Both are in surefire 6p. Dead reliable and versatile with the earlier 22 mode driver. Thinking about getting another one with the advanced program driver. 100% recommended.

 

[kamagong]

They're no longer sexy. But who cares? Connoiseurs still appreciate them. Like 1911s, there will always be a place for the user serviceable, upgradeable P60.

Despite the fact that the market has moved in a different direction I still overwhelmingly prefer the robust, reliable simplicity of the P60. There's little to go wrong, and should i prove unlucky I can fix the problem myself. I have four of them now, so I can say with a straight face I don't need any more lights. Want however, that's another thing entirely.

6P Classic w/ M61WLL

6PL w/ M61NL

MD2

6P Original w/ M61WL

The P60 is never a wrong answer.

 

[marco.weiss]

I can not see myself using a flashlight that is not modular.


I created a kind of trauma or prejudice regarding non-modular flashlights because you can not make upgrades in it, you can not change parts in case of failure.


Using the words of PK, great genius of Surefire: a non-modular flashlight is a flashlight that was born dead.


I recently had great interest in the Protac 1L 1AA model from Streamlight, but I was dismayed by the fact that there was no lens or tailcap for replacement.


In the P60 we have all the possibilities of customization and maintenance.


The decline of the p60 standard is certainly due to the fact that there are plenty of good low priced options, such as Streamlight Protac 2L. You get this flashlight for 45 dollars, the same value of a good dropin (sportac and malkoff are good examples).


In addition to good flashlights like the Streamlight mentioned, we also have an absurd infinity of cheap and disposable Chinese lanterns, which win their customers due to some factors, such as:


a) lack of knowledge / experience of users;
b) marketing work very well done;
c) fun and cute features ...
d) Low price.

 

[Newlumen]

Yea.. picked up 2 p60 like 5 weeks ago.
Surefire z2 combat dual 218c / dual xpl hi
surefire 6p. Quad xpl hi 6500k
surefire 6p. Xpg2 dedome
adventure sport . Xhp70