Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS +

FroggyTaco

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Have you considered that the SC51 might be a ringer? The performance when compared to the Fenix (which is fairly well known as one of the leaders in circuits) leaves me wondering if the LED was hand selected. Car manufacturers have been known to do this by giving journalists cars with tweaked engines to test. I wonder if we might be starting to see that happen in the flashlight world. :laughing:

Allegedly ZL chose a driver with a very limited voltage range(1.2-2.1V) in order to achieve above average efficiency & performance. Beyond that an EE will probably have to weigh in on the matter.
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Have you considered that the SC51 might be a ringer? The performance when compared to the Fenix (which is fairly well known as one of the leaders in circuits) leaves me wondering if the LED was hand selected. Car manufacturers have been known to do this by giving journalists cars with tweaked engines to test. I wonder if we might be starting to see that happen in the flashlight world. :laughing:
This is always a potential concern, but to date it does not seem to be a problem. I've bought a number of shipping versions of lights I've reviewed (different makers), and performance has always been within a typical expected range (so far ...).

I would think using ringers would be a dangerous game to play. Once the shipping lights get into enough hands, any significant discrepancy to the comparison results here would be noted pretty quickly (i.e. I am not just "test-driving" but directly measuring and comparing performance metrics). And that would tarnish a company's reputation pretty fast (and for a long while, since folks here have a long memory ;)).

Also, unless someone seriously altered the components, a ringer in one sense is likely to underperform in others (i.e. higher output but shorter runtime, or vice versa). Cherry-picking a good tint is always possible - most everything else would be tougher, unless defined bins were known (e.g. Vf).

Besides, if ZL were going to send a ringer, I would think they would have picked one with a higher PWM on Low2. :rolleyes: (although there again is an example of trade-off - lower PWM usually translates into higher efficiency).
 
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Minjin

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

I was looking at this again and I still find it crazy. I don't get how ZL is able to achieve this performance with a PWM circuit when Fenix, Quark, and others use a current regulated design which to the best of my knowledge SHOULD have a better output/runtime ratio. :shrug:
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

I was looking at this again and I still find it crazy. I don't get how ZL is able to achieve this performance with a PWM circuit when Fenix, Quark, and others use a current regulated design which to the best of my knowledge SHOULD have a better output/runtime ratio. :shrug:
Actually, I believe the runtimes above are all in current-controlled modes. I only found evidence for PWM on Med2 and Lo2. I haven't tested the runtime performance on those levels, due to the length of time it would take.

But judging from the SC50w specs (which similarly uses PWM on Med2), you can see there's a loss of efficiency there - i.e. half the lumen output, but only twice the runtime for Med2 compared to Med1. Since emitters become more efficient at lower drive levels, that illustrates a performance hit. I'm sure a current-controlled Med2 would last a lot longer than twice Med1 runtime for half the output.

I imagine the problem is producing low output through current-control - not easy to do (especially on circuits with a wide voltage range). You see this on some of the 4Sevens lights as well, a combination of PWM (and lower modes) and current-control (on higher ones).
 

Lobo

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Selfbuilt, did you get any word on when zebralight is going to start sell the SC51? After reading the review, I can barely wait.
Would be a perfect light for a lot of my outdoorsy friends who are not that keen on spending money on a good light. But the size, output((the wow factor is pretty important to convince non flashoholics), easy battery format and ability to use as a headlamp makes it perfect for about all the activities my friends are up to (backpacking, ultralight weight hiking, fishing, general use etc etc).

And you won't happen to review the new nitecore D11? :naughty:
Would be interesting to see how the output and throw have been affected in the latest D10(well, D11). Especially compared with the new zebralights.
 
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Wire Edge

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Your review pushed me over the edge. My first Zebralight is on it's way. Thought I'd give the SC50+ a try. The UI sounds very interesting, looking forward to trying it out first hand!
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Selfbuilt, did you get any word on when zebralight is going to start sell the SC51? ... And you won't happen to review the new nitecore D11? :naughty:
I don't have any details about the launch of the SC51. Probably best to check with typical ZL dealers (they would be in the best position to know). I gathered it was supposed to be soon. :shrug:

Don't know about the D11 yet ... I expect Nitecore will send it along for review, but as yet I haven't heard.
 

Lobo

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

I don't have any details about the launch of the SC51. Probably best to check with typical ZL dealers (they would be in the best position to know). I gathered it was supposed to be soon. :shrug:

Don't know about the D11 yet ... I expect Nitecore will send it along for review, but as yet I haven't heard.

I'll send a mail to zebralight then, and one to nitecore as well. I'll post back here if I get any informative replies.
 

jason978

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

it's up for preorder now, shipping est is oct 23
 

jason978

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Also, according to ZL website, 14500 batteries are NOT supported.
 

mhphoto

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Great review!

Frankly, PWM isn't really an issue if the freq is high enough. It is pretty much undetectable in kHz range, and typically only enters your perception threshold somewhere <1kHz. Under ~200 Hz or so is very noticeable for those who are sensitive to it. You will see it as a corner-of-your-eye "flicker" (or more accurately, latent "ghost" images during your eye saccades).

I'm not sure why, but I'm extra sensitive when it comes to that flicker. I can definitely tell if PWM is in use, even with little movements. Heck, I don't even like being under fluorescent lights for too long, makes me nauseous. :sick2:
 

davidt1

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

it's up for preorder now, shipping est is oct 23

Thanks for the information, but it's a "no go" for me. What's the difference between 200lm and 140lm? Very little, to the eyes. In other words, I think the 200lm is unnecessary. They already have a great mode setup with the SC50+. Why did they have to change it? Why? Why? Why?
 

qtaco

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

200lms from a AA is nice to have, and a significant factor in all the buzz around the new Zebralight lights. I think of it like this: 200lms for 0.9hrs is included for the prestige; 140lms for 2hrs is there as a good compromise between runtime and output.
 

bigfish5

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Talking about the beam on this little light, it sounds like this light has a big hotspot with alot of spill. But looking at the lux numbers would make you think it might be a little throwy. Which is it, i cannot really tell from the whitewall shots.
 

davidt1

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Talking about the beam on this little light, it sounds like this light has a big hotspot with alot of spill. But looking at the lux numbers would make you think it might be a little throwy. Which is it, i cannot really tell from the whitewall shots.

There are some great beam shots of the H51 here (same light as the SC51 but with an angled head).

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/283934&page=8
 

Lite_me

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason. :thinking:
 

FroggyTaco

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason. :thinking:

The original commentary during development was the the driver they were using to achieve the high output & long run times was achieved by limiting the voltage range.

If memory serves me the max voltage was 2.1V so that would exclude 14500's for sure.
 

SloNicK

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason. :thinking:

Response to my question is this: "We are somewhat concerned with safety of using off-brand 14500 batteries."
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

I'm not sure why, but I'm extra sensitive when it comes to that flicker. I can definitely tell if PWM is in use, even with little movements. Heck, I don't even like being under fluorescent lights for too long, makes me nauseous. :sick2:
I find some fluorescent lights better than others - some don't bother me, and some have obvious 60Hz flicker (may have more do with the ballast?). So I also avoid lights with visible PWM.

What's the difference between 200lm and 140lm? Very little, to the eyes. In other words, I think the 200lm is unnecessary. They already have a great mode setup with the SC50+. Why did they have to change it? Why? Why? Why?
I agree that the difference between 140lm and 200lm is not that great. Personally, I'm glad to have the lower Hi mode, as it makes a great battery runtime saver.

Talking about the beam on this little light, it sounds like this light has a big hotspot with alot of spill. But looking at the lux numbers would make you think it might be a little throwy. Which is it, i cannot really tell from the whitewall shots.
There are some great beam shots of the H51 here (same light as the SC51 but with an angled head).
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/283934&page=8
Thanks for the link - the H51 should look the same as the SC51.

I wouldn't really call this light throwy relative to other lights. As for the lux numbers, you have to keep in mind that the overall output of the SC51 is much higher than the other lights. If the other lights were matched for output level, the SC51 would likely be below average for throw.

Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason. :thinking:
The original commentary during development was the the driver they were using to achieve the high output & long run times was achieved by limiting the voltage range.
Response to my question is this: "We are somewhat concerned with safety of using off-brand 14500 batteries."
I really don't know - except to say that if the driver were limited in voltage range, then the 14500 runs here would likely have fried it.

There are a number of examples where makers choose to be conservative and not officially support 14500 (even if the driver can handle the voltage). That may be the case here. I honestly don't know. :shrug:

P.S.: :welcome: SloNick.
 
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Gaffle

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Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

As of right now the 2 most intriguing lights IMO are the SC51 and the Jetbeam RRT-0. I must say that I am really really leaning toward the SC51 now.

Is the headband a regular accessory with this light or was that a fluke? I mean I know that the SC50W had the band, but was that just a mistake in shipping?
 
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