ZebraLight SC600 MkII

[Etsu]

Both of these last two posts pretend that Cree is the only game on the planet and neglect the existence of Nichia and their very reproducable tints when that is what's required.

Has either one of you guys ever had a Nichia 119 Haiku?

Zebralight loves brightness. I like the Nichia 219, but it's only about half as efficient (in terms of lumens/watt) as a cool white Cree XM-L2. It's great for most purposes, but ZL loves to advertize lumens. I think that's why they stick to Cree in most of their top sellers.

 

[markr6]

The thing that really frustrates me is that my Nitecore EA4W (far from a "premium" model) has the most perfect neutral white tint XM-L. But all of my Zebralights with the same emitter were NOWHERE close. Did I get lucky, or does Nitecore have some trick on getting only perfect tints?

 

[UMDTERPS]

does anyone know where to get the latest edition of this light? (the one with 1100 lumens)

 

[tonkem]

Out of stock most places. Check the marketplace or dealer section of cpfmarketplace for a couple of dealers. illumination supply and e2fieldgear are the 2 I have dealt with. Just checked illuminationsupply and they have the cool white in stock.

 

[UMDTERPS]

Out of stock most places. Check the marketplace or dealer section of cpfmarketplace for a couple of dealers. illumination supply and e2fieldgear are the 2 I have dealt with. Just checked illuminationsupply and they have the cool white in stock.

Thanks!

There might be a local store near me that may have it (I just emailed them) called, knife center?
http://www2.knifecenter.com/ not sure if anyone has dealt with them.

 

[jbrett14]

Both of these last two posts pretend that Cree is the only game on the planet and neglect the existence of Nichia and their very reproducable tints when that is what's required.

Has either one of you guys ever had a Nichia 119 Haiku?

I hear ya, and I do not disagree that there ARE ways to make a flashlight that has a more consistent tint. But this was not the issue in which I personally was posting about.

The issue in which I was speaking had more to do with buyers who KNOW that those more consistent tints are NOT what is being used in the ZebraLights, and yet, after buying a ZebraLight, with this foreknowledge, and receiving a tint which they deem unworthy because it doesn't have the "perfect" tint (subjective), they want to return the item back to the seller, putting the burden on him to replace it.

If somebody wants to make sure they get a tint which they are happy with, they ought to buy a brand which they know uses more consistent tints. Otherwise, they should accept what they get, or sell it, not send it back to the seller, as if he sold them a defective item.

To my knowledge ZebraLight never advertised that every buyer would receive a "perfect" white tint. If they did, then yes, the buyer has an argument for replacement.

Again, my position is not to argue whether ZebraLight should or should not try to use more consistent tints. That's their business. If they choose not to, and somebody STILL buys them, then the buyer ought to be responsible and accept the luck of the draw, so as not to burden the seller.

 

[markr6]

I don't know, on the fence about this. But most stores online let you return for any reason, often specifying "Other" or "Changed my mind" as the reason.

So if I purchase a pair of gloves and I simply change my mind, or they are navy blue instead of the cobat blue color on my monitor, it shouldn't matter. It's in their policy and they accepted that as a part of doing business (i.e. 30 days to return for whatever reason - if they are tired of getting them back, just change the policy!!) That could affect sales, but so could bad QC, bad customer service, slow shipping, an act of God or a million other things)

 

[jbrett14]

I don't know, on the fence about this. But most stores online let you return for any reason, often specifying "Other" or "Changed my mind" as the reason.

So if I purchase a pair of gloves and I simply change my mind, or they are navy blue instead of the cobat blue color on my monitor, it shouldn't matter. It's in their policy and they accepted that as a part of doing business (i.e. 30 days to return for whatever reason - if they are tired of getting them back, just change the policy!!) That could affect sales, but so could bad QC, bad customer service, slow shipping, an act of God or a million other things)

Excellent points markr6.

You are right, if a business has a policy like that, then it's their own fault if they don't like it when somebody with higher expectations returns something.

But there is a fine line of providing "customer satisfaction". These policies are designed to attract business, but no business owner could survive if 100% of their customers acted upon it. There is always some financial loss calculated into the working budget of the business. It's expected, but only to a degree. They know that MOST customers will be somewhat reasonable, allowing them to take financial hits to satisfy the unreasonable customers.

Within the circles of flashlight dealers, we are talking about very small businesses, relative to a business like Amazon. I just think we buyers need to be more mindful of the difficulties of running a small business, and learn to be more reasonable with them. They cannot survive if we ALL returned lights because of slight tint dislikes. The only reason they can afford to please those who DO send these non-defective lights back, is because of customers who never would. It is the profits they make from the majority of customers which allows them to lose profits to those customers with special requests.

I know this from running a small business myself. I don't mind making less profit from SOME customers, because I know that with MOST customers, we will make the needed profits to survive. So we can "satisfy" ALL customers so long as the number of special requests is kept to a minimum. Nobody wants an unhappy customer, so we, at times, "bend over backwards" to satisfy even the most unreasonable customer. But again, this is only possible because of all the wonderful reasonable customers we have.

 

[18650]

How does the market take care of itself if not through marketing approaches, product development, customer demand, pricing, customer service, reliability and here we go, product predictability. Some products by design deliver what they promise, while others get their supporters to accept compromise as the rule of thumb. Now what's your point?

In this case, the manufacturer promises a Cree XM-L2 of 4400K in their product and that's what they deliver. Maybe it's just a vocal minority and the rest don't view it as a compromise or maybe they don't care enough to start a crusade over it. Personally it seems all silly to me because from my perspective people are arguing "ugly" green vs "ugly" yellow. Full disclosure: I own 1 Zebralight and it's not a Cree.

 

[18650]

The thing that really frustrates me is that my Nitecore EA4W (far from a "premium" model) has the most perfect neutral white tint XM-L. But all of my Zebralights with the same emitter were NOWHERE close. Did I get lucky, or does Nitecore have some trick on getting only perfect tints?

3C vs 4C is not the same.

 

[markr6]

3C vs 4C is not the same.

Then they should switch to whatever is in the Nitecore because it is perfectly white. Then again, coming back to personal preferences (but I think 99% would agree with me)

 

[toysareforboys]

Finally got my shipping notice for my SC600W MKII L2!!! Can't wait to get it, should hold its brightness good on my -40 degree walks!

-Jamie M.

 

[fnj]

In this case, the manufacturer promises a Cree XM-L2 of 4400K in their product and that's what they deliver. Maybe it's just a vocal minority and the rest don't view it as a compromise or maybe they don't care enough to start a crusade over it. Personally it seems all silly to me because from my perspective people are arguing "ugly" green vs "ugly" yellow. Full disclosure: I own 1 Zebralight and it's not a Cree.

Oh, they promise 4400K? Not 4399 or 4401? May I ask where is that promise made?

Also, LEDs with the same CCT can have significantly different tints.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Much of this tint discussion is being repeated although some differently worded, valid points are being made on both sides.

Just to reiterate something perhaps not mentioned recently: We want ZL and stocking dealers to know that their wonderful lights have had some really bad tint issues compared to other competitive brands and ZebraLight CAN do better, evidenced by even budget manufacturers. How best to get their attention? $$$$.

Hopefully they have improved, maybe less green and more yellow.

Taken from a dealer's website that I do business with:

"Products returned for cosmetic or personal preference issues such as: LED tint, LED centering, inductor noises, etc will not be considered RMAs."

So, dealers make their own decisions regarding what they will do, as will consumers. Tell us what you'll do; present your case. If it sounds like you are telling me what I have to do, well.....

 

[18650]

Oh, they promise 4400K? Not 4399 or 4401? May I ask where is that promise made?

Also, LEDs with the same CCT can have significantly different tints.

That's what it says on the product page. They buy what Cree calls a 4400K emitter. That's it. Seriously. People are content to call the 219A a 92 CRI emitter but it only reaches that rating when driven near max. No one seems concerned enough to start crusades about that.

What if moonlight mode on one is higher than another? What if the LED is off by 0.5mm? What if the ANSI FL-1 ratings are off by a couple percent? What if one sample has a slightly louder buzz at a lower level than another sample? What if one sample has shorter or longer battery life because of small Vf variations in the emitter? Do you get upset about that too?

 

[kaichu dento]

Hi KaichuDento,

I understand where you are coming from. I love my Nichia 119 Haiku as well as my other Nichia 219 powered lights. They produce the best tints available. Having said this, I must say that I was once a tint snob and preferred only HCRI or at least a neutral in the Q3 5A/B range, but lately I tend to be a little more easy on tints. Greenish, yellowish, or even slightly bluish is fine because I realized that in actual use now, I don't really care that much. Of course it doesn't mean I will not have a stronger preference towards neutral or HCRI when it comes to choosing a light, especially if it's a Nichia in there.

This pretty well mirrors my feelings too, and if we know a particular brand is known for 'bad' tints then we can either avoid or mod.
Biggest disappointment with Zebralight is the desirable designs they've come up with paired with difficulty of modding.

The thing that really frustrates me is that my Nitecore EA4W (far from a "premium" model) has the most perfect neutral white tint XM-L. But all of my Zebralights with the same emitter were NOWHERE close. Did I get lucky, or does Nitecore have some trick on getting only perfect tints?

That's a better example of my premise that 'decent' tints are not that difficult to obtain than the one I made myself. If other providers of decent lights are able to deliver, why not the rest of the field as well, particularly when they go through the trouble of presenting us with the one letter suffixes which supposedly indicate a given tint. Said it before although I think it should go without saying, yellow, pink, orange, pink or red are all warm, green is not.

I hear ya, and I do not disagree that there ARE ways to make a flashlight that has a more consistent tint. But this was not the issue in which I personally was posting about.

The issue in which I was speaking had more to do with buyers who KNOW that those more consistent tints are NOT what is being used in the ZebraLights, and yet, after buying a ZebraLight, with this foreknowledge, and receiving a tint which they deem unworthy because it doesn't have the "perfect" tint (subjective), they want to return the item back to the seller, putting the burden on him to replace it.

If somebody wants to make sure they get a tint which they are happy with, they ought to buy a brand which they know uses more consistent tints. Otherwise, they should accept what they get, or sell it, not send it back to the seller, as if he sold them a defective item.

To my knowledge ZebraLight never advertised that every buyer would receive a "perfect" white tint. If they did, then yes, the buyer has an argument for replacement.

Again, my position is not to argue whether ZebraLight should or should not try to use more consistent tints. That's their business. If they choose not to, and somebody STILL buys them, then the buyer ought to be responsible and accept the luck of the draw, so as not to burden the seller.

Excellent points markr6.

You are right, if a business has a policy like that, then it's their own fault if they don't like it when somebody with higher expectations returns something.

But there is a fine line of providing "customer satisfaction". These policies are designed to attract business, but no business owner could survive if 100% of their customers acted upon it. There is always some financial loss calculated into the working budget of the business. It's expected, but only to a degree. They know that MOST customers will be somewhat reasonable, allowing them to take financial hits to satisfy the unreasonable customers.

Within the circles of flashlight dealers, we are talking about very small businesses, relative to a business like Amazon. I just think we buyers need to be more mindful of the difficulties of running a small business, and learn to be more reasonable with them. They cannot survive if we ALL returned lights because of slight tint dislikes. The only reason they can afford to please those who DO send these non-defective lights back, is because of customers who never would. It is the profits they make from the majority of customers which allows them to lose profits to those customers with special requests.

I know this from running a small business myself. I don't mind making less profit from SOME customers, because I know that with MOST customers, we will make the needed profits to survive. So we can "satisfy" ALL customers so long as the number of special requests is kept to a minimum. Nobody wants an unhappy customer, so we, at times, "bend over backwards" to satisfy even the most unreasonable customer. But again, this is only possible because of all the wonderful reasonable customers we have.

As usual, a couple of excellent postings and some of your points are behind why although I thought I'd be one of the first to buy an SC52w, I've avoided buying so far. If I were to buy one I'd be expecting ugly tint, and if I found it at least bearable would consider myself lucky.

In this case, the manufacturer promises a Cree XM-L2 of 4400K in their product and that's what they deliver. Maybe it's just a vocal minority and the rest don't view it as a compromise or maybe they don't care enough to start a crusade over it. Personally it seems all silly to me because from my perspective people are arguing "ugly" green vs "ugly" yellow. Full disclosure: I own 1 Zebralight and it's not a Cree.

If you really want to use the word 'crusade', then you'd have to admit its existence on both sides of the issue, predominantly appropriate when used to identify those who are all too willing to exaggerate and label anyone who dares disagree with them.

That's what it says on the product page. They buy what Cree calls a 4400K emitter. That's it. Seriously. People are content to call the 219A a 92 CRI emitter but it only reaches that rating when driven near max. No one seems concerned enough to start crusades about that.

What if moonlight mode on one is higher than another? What if the LED is off by 0.5mm? What if the ANSI FL-1 ratings are off by a couple percent? What if one sample has a slightly louder buzz at a lower level than another sample? What if one sample has shorter or longer battery life because of small Vf variations in the emitter? Do you get upset about that too?

There you go with that word again, and apparently it is becoming more and more applicable to your intolerance for opposing views.

The entire last part of this post is what's called a straw man argument, as the one has nothing to do with the other, but is a blatant attempt to marginalize.

Anyone happy with the ZebraLights as they are are welcome to like them, and those of us who have chosen to hold off buying one are free to express our hopes that they'll at some point take this more seriously.

 

[18650]

Sure you can but just remember it's not a defect. It's a subjective quality that you don't like. I'm just pointing out it's not broken and the multiple return and try to win the lottery type things being advocated is ridiculous, thus I intolerantly poke fun at it. In the ZL threads it's always the same few individuals drilling the same thing over and over again.

Like you said, Cree isn't the only game in town so people can go there as an option. I'll even freely admit my one Luxeon based light is the only one of my lights that has a truly neutral tint with very little if any color cast in any particular direction. Tint-wise it's way better than any of my Cree lights which range from slightly green, to slightly blue, to slightly purple, or slightly yellow. It's just not a flaw that merits the amount of ink I see used on it.

 

[kaichu dento]

We're never going to agree on certain perspectives, but at least this most recent post of yours is fairly sober in approach and I too agree with most of it.

I'm with you certainly in not enjoying incessant postings going after ZL's already known poor offering when it comes to tint and mostly simply accept it, but on the other hand it's no more enjoyable being grouped with others whose views I don't necessarily share simply because tint matters a lot to me as well.

It would be great to see Luxeon come back strongly into the game and I believe that it will be the multi-level competition between emitter makers that will eventually give us the type of tint predictability that is for the most part standard when it comes to bulbs of all types for home usage.

 

[Matt.m]

Any idea on which 3400mah protected cells will fit in the SC600 MKII L2 if any? I'm looking to pick up some Orbtronic 3400mah protected cells for my TN32 I just ordered and figured I would get an extra for this light as well. Just not sure if they will fit. If not would it be ok to go with an unprotected cell. What are the caveats to that?

 

[P1X4R]

Orbtronic 3400 mAh protected cells fit fine. that's what i exclusively use in my sc600 mkii l2.