Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search Light Finally Completed

New Beam shots:

To the twin tree in the woods, it's exactly 374ft (125 yards or 114 meters).


Zoom in to the 374ft twin tree target in the center:


Franken MagDEFT SST-50 at night time:


Camera Zoom in/ It's capable of Very large area coverage at 374Ft out
I'd imagine it's really useful for hunting when need to spot animals 200-300 yards away, where conventional reflectored flashlight isn't suficient anymore.

There is only one over 1000 lumen led light that could match MagDEFT in throw,
that is DR90, but SR90 is a lot bigger in size.





I am in the thrower mood right now, just made a DEFT Jr. here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/264722

Now I want something bigger & badder, something that could throw like DEFT but pumps out > 1000 lumens,:devil:
something that will have a beam spot size similar to Arcmania X6 but can out throw the X6.

Starting with the DEFT Host (DX 4213), the 109-LED Mega shower head, which has a bezel diameter of 3.15".

Now, install a optical glass 3" HID Projector into the DEFT bezel:
(THE HID projectors are sold by the pair only, I have two but only need one if anyone want the other 3" Aspherica lens to try this, PM me, $20 +$3 shipping, US only).

The lens need an "adaptor" to be mounted, so I glued a set of double wire around the lens edge, so the lens will fit snag & won't move sideways, but still need something to hold it in place vertically.



Then I cut open the shower head mash:


Cut away the core & leave the rim section only, this is then mounted back in the bezel to hold the lens from below.


After install the "bracket", I make a "spring" using steel wire so that fits into one of the thread, together with the bracket, the combo is able to hold the lens in place without moving around.



Now, the DEFT head with 3" Aspheric lens mounted next to the DEFT Jr. & mag sized Aspheric head:


I always felt the DEFT has a disproportionally small body vs head:



The next step is a big challenge, as I want to mount a SSR-50 & over drive it to match DEFT Cree R2 surface Brightness. The DEFT host clearly does not have enough room for a beefy heat sink, the body wall is also too thin for the amount of heat I am expecting out of a SSR-50 running 7.5 Amp.


This is when I came up with the Franken MagDEFT idea, If I could force the DEFT head onto the Mag D Body, I will be able to mount beefy heat sink & still have plenty room left for drivers:

I started with grinding away the threads on Rebel LED Mag 2D tube:



Followed by grinding away the inside thread of DEFT head:


NOW, the results of Mag & DEFT "Arranged Marriage" :naughty:
I think they look good together


Couple more pictures of the MagDEFT:





This is all I can do for now, I am still waiting for the drivers to come as well as Mag D sink. The plan is to drive SSR-50 to 7.5 Amp, which I believe it's necessary to match up the LED surface brightness of DEFT based on my math below, feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

The 3 Leds below at their rated Spec Current limit have similar surface brightness (My laymen's term & understanding that the surface brightness is roughly equal to Lumen per square mm die area), all three are around ~250lm/sq mm.

XRE R2 Max Spec 1 AMP ~ 250lm/1 sq mm
XPG R5 Max spec 1.5 AMP ~ 495lm/2 sq mm, I.E. ~ 250l lm/ sq mm
SSR-50 Top bin Max Spec 5 Amp ~ 1250lumen/5 sq mm, ~250 lm/sq mm

However, DEFT is over driven the R2 to 150% of spec, I.E. ~ 1.5/1.6 amp.
I need to over drive the SSR-50 by 150% as well to keep up the surface brightness of DEFT.

I.E. I need to drive SST-50 to 7.5 Amp (150% of 5Amp spec).
By the same logic, one can match DEFT Cree R2 surface brightness by driving
XPG R5 to ~2.3 Amp.

Although I've done SSR-90 & the idea of SST/SSR-90 is tempting, I don't think it is practical for the goal of this project.
As I'll need to over drive it to 13.5 Amp to keep up the surface brightness, even if I could find a way to deliver 13.5 Amp, I don't think I can keep it cool enough to avoid overheating problems. That's about 45 Watts. The SSR-50 at 7.5Amp will be about 25 Watts only.

This is it for now, I have top bin SSR-50 ready, once I get the heat sink & drivers in, I can then continue to finish it up.

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower beast

Reserved

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

ma_sha1 said:

The next step is a big challenge, as I want to mount a SSR-50 & over drive it to match DEFT Cree R2 surface Brightness.

Click to expand...

ma_sha1 said:

The plan is to drive SSR-50 to 7.5 Amp, which I believe it's necessary to match up the LED surface brightness of DEFT based on my math below, feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

The 3 Leds below at their rated Spec Current limit have similar surface brightness (My laymen's term & understanding that the surface brightness is roughly equal to Lumen per square mm die area), all three are around ~250lm/sq mm.

XRE R2 Max Spec 1 AMP ~ 250lm/1 sq mm
XPG R5 Max spec 1.5 AMP ~ 495lm/2 sq mm, I.E. ~ 250l lm/ sq mm
SSR-50 Top bin Max Spec 5 Amp ~ 1250lumen/5 sq mm, ~250 lm/sq mm

However, DEFT is over driven the R2 to 150% of spec, I.E. ~ 1.5/1.6 amp.
I need to over drive the SSR-50 by 150% as well to keep up the surface brightness of DEFT.

I.E. I need to drive SST-50 to 7.5 Amp (150% of 5Amp spec).
By the same logic, one can match DEFT Cree R2 surface brightness by driving
XPG R5 to ~2.3 Amp.

Click to expand...

Sorry but you will not get that SSR-50 to match the surface brightness of the XR-E R2 in the DEFT. I just don't see it happening. The XR-E R2 is a 275lm per mm sq @1A not 250. The FTP is running at 340ish per sq mm. One I am working on at the moment is at close to 390 per sq mm.
Besides all that your assumptions as to just bumping one up 150% do not pan out in the real world. You will have to de-rate the lumen output for that SSR-50 much more than would be necessary for the XR-E in the same light.
So first off the chance of you even being able to match the surface brightness of the XR-E at similar energy densities is next to impossible and then you have the real world application to worry about. Using the mag body will help but not for very long.

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

I put together a Deft clone a couple of months ago. I liked the idea of a mag body, but gave up after the threads not matching.

I give it to you for making them fit. :twothumbs
You have made me look seriously at making a Jr clone.

I am very curious to see the results. I understand why a xre is suppose to be the best thrower, but I wonder how much the eye will be able to differentiate.

What is the thickness of your lens? What is the diameter at the base of the convex section?

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

I think you're right about the 109 shower head looking more natural on a Mag body. It looks awesome.:twothumbs Can't wait to see your comparative beamshots.

What is a, "HID Projector"? Where did you find this lens? Do you know its focal length?

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

parnell said:

I put together a Deft clone a couple of months ago. I liked the idea of a mag body, but gave up after the threads not matching.

What is the thickness of your lens? What is the diameter at the base of the convex section?

Click to expand...

The thickness is ~30mm, total diameter 74mm, convex section 69mm.

Al Combs said:

I think you're right about the 109 shower head looking more natural on a Mag body. It looks awesome.:twothumbs Can't wait to see your comparative beamshots.

What is a, "HID Projector"? Where did you find this lens? Do you know its focal length?

Click to expand...

Thanks!

I got the lens on ebay, Lens are for modding cars where people
mod Halogen light using reflector into HID Lights with Projection beam,
thus they call it "HID Projector". Thus, they sell it by the pair only.

I don't know the EFL, but they are all short EFL Aspheric type.
The original DEFT thread, if you remember before he started making plastic lens for DEFT production, was made using a lens out of Subaru SVX headlight, it's the same type of deal.

The original DEFT thread here for reference:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183261


The next big challenge for me is to manage driving it to 7.5 Amp without
I plan to use 3 P7 drivers in parallel (I used 2 in parallel here to get 5 Amp).
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254481
.

I have 2 Top Bin SSR-50 ready, in case one goes , I'll stil have one for plan B. :naughty:
.

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

ma_sha1 said:

The thickness is ~30mm, total diameter 74mm, convex section 69mm.

The next big challenge for me is to manage driving it to 7.5 Amp without
I plan to use 3 P7 drivers in parallel (I used 2 in parallel here to get 5 Amp).
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254481
.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the specs. A Subaru SVX lens is ~29mm and around a 54mm focal length. That should mean that the 30mm lens should have a slightly shorter focal length.

Hopefully it doesn't go at 7.5, but if it does atleast you will have suceeded in finding an ~max voltage.

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

ma_sha1 said:

I got the lens on ebay, Lens are for modding cars where people
mod Halogen light using reflector into HID Lights with Projection beam,
thus they call it "HID Projector". Thus, they sell it by the pair only.

I don't know the EFL, but they are all short EFL Aspheric type.
The original DEFT thread, if you remember before he started making plastic lens for DEFT production, was made using a lens out of Subaru SVX headlight, it's the same type of deal.

The original DEFT thread here for reference:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183261

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on the aspheric.

I think you're right about Luminus LED's being able to take a lot of power. The SST-90 is rated at 9 amps max. But the CST-90, which looks identical, is rated for 13.5 amps. I looks like it's mounted directly to a metal bracket with a built in thermistor to throttle back the regulator when it's about to self destruct. An estimate from the Relative Output Flux vs. Forward Current graph on page 9 of their docs gives a 331% increase in output over the 3.2 amp rating. That's almost 4,000 lumens. Jtr1962 tested an SST-90 at the bottom of post #336 from his white lumens thread. He stopped at 11.75 amps because it was a loaner.

The SST-50 should scale pretty well since it's the same type of LED. Good luck and keep us posted.lovecpf

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

Thanks for the info. Since I haven't seen data on what if 7.5 Amp, Assume the SST-50 Scale same way as SST-90, the SST-90 Curve you referred to extends to about 2800 Lumens at 13.5 Amp (By visually extending the curve).

2800/2200 = 1.27.

Assume 7.5Amp is 1.27x of the 5A lumens on SST-50 as well, then 1250x1.27 =1588 lumen
Divide by 5mm, this would estimate to be ~ 318 Lumens/mm surface brightness.

per Saab response earlier in this thread, his DEFT FTP is running at 340ish per sq mm, so this will be just shy of the DEFT FTP Cree R2 surface brightness, but not by much thou.

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

ma_sha1 said:

Thanks for the info. Since I haven't seen data on what if 7.5 Amp, Assume the SST-50 Scale same way as SST-90, the SST-90 Curve you referred to extends to about 2800 Lumens at 13.5 Amp (By visually extending the curve).

2800/2200 = 1.27.

Assume 7.5Amp is 1.27x of the 5A lumens on SST-50 as well, then 1250x1.27 =1588 lumen
Divide by 5mm, this would estimate to be ~ 318 Lumens/mm surface brightness.

per Saab response earlier in this thread, his DEFT FTP is running at 340ish per sq mm, so this will be just shy of the DEFT FTP Cree R2 surface brightness, but not by much thou.

Click to expand...

The problem is you are not taking into account the real world affects of the heat generated by all that power running through the SSR-50. You would be far better off losing the MCPCB under that thing and soldering it directly to some copper. The SST-90 jtr tested was mine and I mounted it directly to copper. Do not assume your LED will scale along with that one when yours is on an MCPCB.

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

Thanks, Saab,

I know the heat management will be much harder to over come on the over driven SSR-50.
Thus, the Mag body idea to battle it. It's just a math to get me a understanding on where would it be in an ideal case.

In real world, I am not expecting this to be in the 132,000 lux/1M zone, the DEFT FTP measured by Big C.

I am hoping it'll come out to be >100,000 Lux at one meter, thus
almost twice as bright as the ArcMania X6 (Someone measured it at 56,000 lux/1M).
The excitng part to me is to see >100,000 lux on a 5x bigger beam area over XRE via 3" lens.

I think 100K lux/1M is a reasonable target as the SR90 was able to achieve 112K lux/1M using a reflector.
And I am guessing the SST-90 used was not even over driven. I can't imagine the mass mfg. would overdrive it
as too much liabilities. However, the SR90 does have another advantage that is that it uses a 4 inch head.

I plan to send to Big C for a measurement when done & see what it'll be, assuming no

It is entirely possible that I may both the SSR-50 I have & end up with zero lux at 1 meter

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower

ma_sha1 said:

I know the heat management will be much harder to over come on the over driven SSR-50.

Click to expand...

An old thread was recently resurrected about peltier coolers. Newbie's post#23 pointed to an short article about a heat pipe used in an LED lighting fixture. Don't all the really good CPU heatsinks use heat pipes? Why not an LED flashlight? Maybe there's a way you can integrate one of them into your designs. How about something like this? A nice flower arrangement. :laughing:

But all kidding aside, what if you had a MagD with 1" PVC as a lateral spacer for NiMH C cells. And then you cut a slot the length of the PVC wide enough to thermal epoxy a heat pipe the whole length of the battery tube. Now instead of just the reflector housing being what ultimately dissipates heat to the surrounding air, it's the entire flashlight.

Speaking of the Mag's reflector housing, this is something I've always wondered about. Everyone is very careful to glue their LED's onto the heat sink with the thinnest layer of Arctic Alumina or Arctic Silver epoxy possible. Then put some AA or AS thermal compound on the heatsink to maximize the thermal transfer to the battery housing. And lastly screw the reflector housing back onto the battery housing with Nyogel-760?:thinking: OK, AA or AS compound tends to seize up after sitting for a while and it's probably bad for the O-ring. But think of all the play in those threads that have nothing but grease on them. Which gets hotter, the reflector or the battery tube? Meanwhile the heatsink is basically storing all that built up heat.

I saw and interesting thread by Leef when he and Milkyspit released the Gotham. Take a look at post #18 by Milky and do a Ctrl-F browser search for "copper". He indicates their heat sink was originally copper but they got better performance using aluminum. Copper can conduct heat twice as fast as aluminum, but has a lower specific heat (storage ability). So if you can't dump the heat after conducting it, you've got a problem. I think this LED Zeppelin heatsink is one of the best design concepts I've seen as far as a combination of aluminum and copper. :thumbsup:

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed

Finally, all my parts came in. I was able to finish this light.

The Heat sink is bare Alu. H22A Mag D sink.
I had to grind down the post in the center to let the star sit on the big surface below.



Also need to grind away the edge of the heat sink.
To allow the sink to sit deep & focus the led to the focal point of the lens.
The start is glue down with Arctic Silver.
The sink is inserted in the tube with Thermo paste.


I was not able to fit 3 drivers in, so I wired 2 P7 driver in parallel to get 5 Amp. With the dual 2.8Amp driver, the led measured 4.99 Amp at turn on with 2x LiFePO4 26650 (6.7V). The Amp draw at tail is 3.5Amp.


These are my new safe chemistry LiFePO4 big C cells (26650).
The LiFePO4 26650 can deliver 10 AMP max & 7Amp constant working current, so 2 in series could be used to drive SST-90 too.



When finshed, the heat sink is deep inside the tube.
The Head is glue to the body with JB Weld at the focus point.
Small focus adjustment can be done by turning the bezel, because
the the lens is fixed on the bezel, there's quiet a few turns of thread to allow focus adjustments if necessary.



It's raining out side, but I couldn't wait, so I am taking shots in the rain (very small rain the humidity is 100%).
This is extreme top bin SSR-50 At 5 Amp, 1250 Lumens mated up DEFT head & 3 inch glass Aspherical lens,
I think it should throw further than ArcMania X6 & give a similar large hot spot, useful as a long distance search light.

I am comparing with my Benchmark Mag 85, the 1000 Luman Incan thrower. There is a car at the end, between the Garage & the building. The distance from light to the car is about ~180 feet, from light to the front of the garage is about 130 ft. I have the camera zoomed in quite a bit.
Because the car is at the end of a narrow pathway, the Mag 85 light up the side a lot but not enough throw (It's raining, it diffuses the beam which would have had better throw in a clear day) to light up the car.
Imagine a rainy day, a bad guy hiding at the end of the narrow passage way about 180 feet away next to the car. The Mag85 will not be enough because you can barely see the car.



Now, the SSR-50 MagDEFT Search Light under the same manual exposure setting, you can see the car much better & the bad guy would be fully exposed! It's still raining outside, but still, the MagDEFT has no problem getting the job done!



Still with zoom on, but less zoom then the photos before. I was holding the light by hand, so it's a bit fuzzy, but you can see how bright it is vs. the light bulbs at the door.

Nice!!!!


Can't wait to see some more beamshots!

Certainly. One of the clear days, I plan to take it to one of the light house places around here for some longer distance shots.


Another update, after about 10 min use, the light starts blinking non stop,
LiFePo4 battery measured 3.1V (Started at 3.35v). Then I realize that the driver was meant for 2x4.2v Li-ion, this could be the driver's low voltage warning function at work?

So I re-rig this into running 2x4.2V IMR 26650, Wola, even brighter than Yeasterday!. The low voltage warning is nice, reminds me when it's time to charge. The IMR 26650 is 4000mAH, even higher capacity for rock solid output!

The current set-up:
There is a tiny magnet on top of the left battery(hard to see) to help making the positive connection to the switch.
The inside of tail cap is de-anoed & The spring is recessed for Running 2x 26650.

That is SWEEEET!!!

Now just waiting for the distance shots with comparisons to you other throwers.

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed

i know it is out of topic but i have to ask - are you willing to sell reflector from that Mag LED.

Nice result!

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed

jarekdadej said:

i know it is out of topic but i have to ask - are you willing to sell reflector from that Mag LED.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I am planning to try the Mag Rebel LED Reflector on a SST-90.

toby_pra said:

Nice result!

Click to expand...

Thanks

Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed

ma_sha1 said:

Sorry, I am planning to try the Mag Rebel LED Reflector on a SST-90.

Click to expand...

Are you planning on using the Rebel reflector in the regular MagD reflector housing? I noticed you also bought one of Fivemega's Finned/Flutted M*g "D" Heads. I almost bought a Mag-Rebel 2D because of Techjunkie's comment, "The Mag Rebel reflector wins for throw and hotspot hands down." And again he had good things to say about that reflector in the build thread. But when I held the regular MagD next to the Rebel-Mag at my local Home Depot, the Rebel reflector housing is about 1/4" longer. Spending 30 bucks for a plastic reflector isn't as ridiculous as it sounds, because I also needed the host. I just wasn't sure if they could be easily modded to work together. If you are planning on trying it, please let us know the results.

BTW, I love your beamshots of Franken-Deft up against that Mag85. Amazing that an 1185 looks sick up against any kind of LED.