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Thread: New Petzl NAO !

  1. #1

    Default New Petzl NAO !

    Just saw this. Looks crazy, seems to be way to much for a headlamp. A person can just as easily turn a knob to adjust brightness.

    http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/head...m_content=home

  2. #2
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by arizona1 View Post
    Just saw this. Looks crazy, seems to be way to much for a headlamp. A person can just as easily turn a knob to adjust brightness.

    http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/head...m_content=home
    I can see this light doing something automagic which will PO the user, making them use it in manual mode.

  3. #3

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    This is a great concept! Can't wait to see how well this technology works.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Amazing!
    If the light sensor performs really well, i will absolutely buy it. Really cool.

  5. #5

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Cool! I fear the price and the functionality, though... (I'm still trying to figure out if it changes to throw just because it's level, or because of a gesture upwards.)

    Ash? You got that functionality coming in Spike v3?

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* kevinm's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    That's brilliant! I'll consider buying one in 3 generations when they have the bugs worked out.

  7. #7

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    I dont know i just cant seem to like the concept of this headlamp. It just seems ridiculous to have a light sensor on it and automatically adjust the brightness. It takes so little effort to manually do it. Plus the headband doesn't look comfortable to me. The only thing i like about it is 355 lumen on max, but its run time isnt long enough for me. Im sure this thing will be really expensive and i cant rationalize the use of it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    I'm guessing the spot beam will come on if the flood beam is at max and there still isn't enough light getting back to the sensor.

    It's interesting as I've been wondering why a light with this technology hasn't been made yet and how long it would take for someone to do it, it seems a good idea for a headlamp.

    However, the main problem I can see is what they define as the 'optimum amount of light' I'm guessing it is set to a certain lux level in the sensor, but it would be better if the user could also vary the overall lux amount which the sensor tries to maintain, we effectively have adaptive light level technology built into our eyes so it makes sense to take advantage of that too. I mean it's great that it can maintain an overall lux level depending on what you're looking at, but some activities e.g. walking require less light than others in general e.g. running. They seemed to address this at one point saying it could be adjusted, but it appeared like it had to be pre-programmed using software on a computer, they should have incorporated that adjustability into the light in my opinion.

  9. #9

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
    That's brilliant! I'll consider buying one in 3 generations when they have the bugs worked out.
    +1

    it's a great concept. we'll see about the execution.

    anyone else notice that it takes what looks like an 18650 and that the cell looks to be replaceable?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    maybe it will be ideal when climbing between snow/dirt/rocks and it will adjust the light better
    as you transition between different reflective surfaces [than by hand] ?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    It certainly seems to have some innovations for Headlamp -

    - Recharging via USB connector
    - Using 18650 cell
    - Profiles can be downloaded by PC or custom User-profiles created.

    The video shows a few limitations of auto-brightness -
    - Do your colleagues smile when you shine your light in their eyes ???? I guess the next generation will have a face detection camera to dim the light when you aim it at someones face, rather than just a simple light-level sensor ? Damn, maybe I should have patented this ???
    - Rain or fog will cause high level light reflection into the sensor and dim the light to minimum.

    Now we just have to wait FIVE months to see how good it is !
    Last edited by MikeAusC; 01-19-2012 at 03:27 PM.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Cute idea from Petzl, and this comment
    > face detection camera to dim the light when you aim it at someones face
    is brilliant.

    I wonder if I could mod an old camera with infrared focusing into being a flashlight? Hmmm ...

  13. #13

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    That is the best headlight I've seen come out of Petzl since the Zoom!
    The programmability is very good.
    It lacks is a better spot beam, but the flood and power level look great.
    Good for a weekend camper, but I worry about not being able to replace the battery on extended trips. I would burn through that battery 2 - 4 times in one night.


    borrower, no the V3 doesn't have this. I could do it by using a tilt switch on one pin of the uC, but I doubt it would be a good feature. I got so many complaints over my previous 'Intelligent UI' that this sort of thing would drive people nuts. Most users just want a few simple modes.
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  14. #14
    Flashaholic* nein166's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    I knew I'd seen this before but it was in a flashlight called the Reflex
    Also programmable but they used the sensor and made the computer flash the code thru it onscreen. The USB connection is new
    guess you could use a usb charger that runs off alkalines on the trail but that won't help during the night
    Would work for jogging and around the house though, I wonder if the software lets you set your own lumens/distance levels
    I like it

  15. #15
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    From the looks of things the software lets you configure you own kind of usage/setup. I should be interesting.

    At least Petzl put a date on their concept unlike others who show things and put in catalogs and then never make it available.
    Last edited by cue003; 01-19-2012 at 07:47 PM.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    nice idea...but its one more thing to go wrong,but if with a few people in close proxsimity dressed in black int it going to try and blind them? i thing it anoth case of creating a solution for a problem they just invented.
    oh and what will happen if i look the them with my head lamp?
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  17. #17

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by petersmith6 View Post
    oh and what will happen if i look the them with my head lamp?
    Ha! I hadn't thought of that.
    Doe this mean that if a Nao wearer is running towards me, (say 50m away) I can accidentally hurt him twice? First by shining a thrower at him and secondly by shutting down his own light?

    I suspect it wouldn't be all that bad.

    Something I did wonder when I was watching the video, is how the auto adjust would work since

    A. No light coming in the sensor can mean:
    1. It's very dark and I only need a tiny bit of light to see.
    2. I'm looking into a void and I want full power.

    B. Lots of light in the sensor can mean:
    1. I'm looking at a map and it's all reflecting so the power needs to go down.
    2. The sun is going up/down so there's still a bit of ambient light ruining my night vision - so I need full power to see where I'm running.

    I suspect all these issues will be sorted by the choice in UIs. You really need to give choice when you start going fancy like this.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by ahorton View Post
    borrower, no the V3 doesn't have this. I could do it by using a tilt switch on one pin of the uC, but I doubt it would be a good feature. I got so many complaints over my previous 'Intelligent UI' that this sort of thing would drive people nuts. Most users just want a few simple modes.
    I was joking... and I agree that most people want simple, predictable modes. This one will be interesting to see in real-world use.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    I think this is an interesting product but it's ridiculous at the same time

    It looks like you can't hold your head up when you walk on a trail. You have to hold your head slightly down otherwise you get a spot beam and can't see where you are walking. In the photos they magically have local light when the hiker holds his head up but it doesn't appear to come from the headlamp.

    It seems to be optimized for a high level of brightness in general because "that's what you need at night"?

    Why is it better to have to charge your battery with a computer (USB)? This will be as annoying as my cell phone trying to guess what word I'm starting to text so it can "help" me out.

    It looks like every time you move your head up or down the light will be changing...flood..no spot...no flood. Annoying.

    It's like the keyless door lock pads on some cars a few years ago. It's a solution in search of a problem. It's much better to have intuitive manual control of more variables...easy to switch from spot to flood or to have both with variable output adjustment.

    It satisfies a certain gearhead desire I'll admit but programming and charging on a computer rather than having intuitive options on the unit itself would be a nonstarter for me.

    The real purpose in all the gadgetry is to justify a higher price/profit margin and to push Petzl software across the entire product line.

    The closest legitimate use for this technology is adventure racing (or whatever it's called) however I think it would be annoying even for that.
    Last edited by gcbryan; 01-20-2012 at 01:09 PM.

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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Interesting I am sure, but not to me. I can't see how these automatic features would benefit me much at all and I am sure I would get aggravated with them. I prefer to be in control of everything that I can, dont need no auto headlights on my vehicle nor automatic transmission, full manual on camera is great too, and a flashlight is the last thing I would need automatic controls on. When is the gps enabled one with a camera and phone built in coming out? lol
    Last edited by DIΩDΣ; 01-20-2012 at 11:17 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by gcbryan View Post
    I think this is an interesting product but is ridiculous at the same time

    It looks like you can't hold your head up when you walk on a trail. You have to hold your head slightly down otherwise you get a spot beam and can't see where you are walking. In the photos they magically have local light when the hiker holds his head up but it doesn't appear to come from the headlamp.

    It seems to be optimized for a high level of brightness in general because "that's what you need at night"?

    Why is it better to have to charge your battery with a computer (USB)? This will be as annoying as my cell phone trying to guess what word I'm starting to text so it can "help" me out.

    It looks like every time you move your head up or down the light will be changing...flood..no spot...no flood. Annoying.

    It's like the keyless door lock pads on some cars a few years ago. It's a solution in search of a problem. It's much better to have intuitive manual control of more variables...easy to switch from spot to flood or to have both with variable output adjustment.

    It satisfies a certain gearhead desire I'll admit but programming and charging on a computer rather than having intuitive options on the unit itself would be a nonstarter for me.

    The real purpose in all the gadgetry is to justify a higher price/profit margin and to push Petzl software across the entire product line.

    The closest legitimate use for this technology is adventure running (or whatever it's called) however I think it would be annoying even for that.
    Could not have said it better myself

  22. #22
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by DIΩDΣ View Post
    Interesting I am sure, but not to me. I can't see how these automatic features would benefit me much at all and I am sure I would get aggravated with them. I prefer to be in control of everything that I can, dont need no auto headlights on my vehicle nor automatic transmission, full manual on camera is great too, and a flashlight is the last thing I would need automatic controls on. When is the gps enabled one with a camera and phone built in coming out? lol
    That would be December 2012

  23. #23

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    This is certainly a product that has potential. I'll wait to pass judgement until I USE one.
    As a rock climber I can certainly see benefits to the auto mode. You'll often be looking right in front of you at the rock and then look up to see far ahead of you. Letting go to adjust manually isn't really an option...

    RE: USB charging: You certainly don't need a computer to charge with. Options that are much much smaller (and also used for OTHER devices) are available. The tiny 1amp iPhone wall brick is one example. They also make micro 1 amp 12v cig USB chargers that can easily be run off a solar panel. (Goal Zero etc). That's not to say you can't bring along a 12v DC 18650 charger but being able to leave a proprietary charger behind is nice.

    When hiking on trails at night you HAVE to look down a bit (especially on rough terrain) to see where you're going. You only look straight ahead on smooth and flat terrain.

    The local light is for the product shot. To take a good "ad" picture you'll have to have non-source lighting. It'll be up to CPF users to do real beam shots...

    High level of brightness will be user adjustable via the OS I suspect...

    I bet you can adjust the sensitivity and "response time" of the light depending on needs.

    Theres' a "static" mode for manual override if needed.

    $175 MSRP - really not all that bad. Zebra H600 $89 +$18 18650 + $50 Pila Charger (yes, you can go cheaper) + $15 for 12v cord(robbery imo) gets you in the same range. even if you go budget and save $50 I think that extra $50 for the Petzl is worth it (assuming the tech works) since it's a MUCH nicer all-in-one package and includes the AAA backup as well as the OS customization

    Petzl makes gear for highly outdoor activities and the NAO is aimed at that crowd more so than the CPF user set. Granted there's probably some overlap but I doubt its much.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by mattm01 View Post
    This is certainly a product that has potential. I'll wait to pass judgement until I USE one.
    As a rock climber I can certainly see benefits to the auto mode. You'll often be looking right in front of you at the rock and then look up to see far ahead of you. Letting go to adjust manually isn't really an option...

    RE: USB charging: You certainly don't need a computer to charge with. Options that are much much smaller (and also used for OTHER devices) are available. The tiny 1amp iPhone wall brick is one example. They also make micro 1 amp 12v cig USB chargers that can easily be run off a solar panel. (Goal Zero etc). That's not to say you can't bring along a 12v DC 18650 charger but being able to leave a proprietary charger behind is nice.

    When hiking on trails at night you HAVE to look down a bit (especially on rough terrain) to see where you're going. You only look straight ahead on smooth and flat terrain.

    The local light is for the product shot. To take a good "ad" picture you'll have to have non-source lighting. It'll be up to CPF users to do real beam shots...

    High level of brightness will be user adjustable via the OS I suspect...

    I bet you can adjust the sensitivity and "response time" of the light depending on needs.

    Theres' a "static" mode for manual override if needed.

    $175 MSRP - really not all that bad. Zebra H600 $89 +$18 18650 + $50 Pila Charger (yes, you can go cheaper) + $15 for 12v cord(robbery imo) gets you in the same range. even if you go budget and save $50 I think that extra $50 for the Petzl is worth it (assuming the tech works) since it's a MUCH nicer all-in-one package and includes the AAA backup as well as the OS customization

    Petzl makes gear for highly outdoor activities and the NAO is aimed at that crowd more so than the CPF user set. Granted there's probably some overlap but I doubt its much.
    When do you think you'll have them in stock?

    What makes you think the CPF user doesn't use a headlamp for outdoor activities? I'm a rock climber as well.

    I don't do a lot of rock climbing at night but there is some overlap (day/night) in getting off the rock.

    How are you managing now to see the rock and look ahead to figure out the route/find anchors, etc.?

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    So, will the next model out recognize all the mobile phone/trackpad standard hand gestures?

  26. #26

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by gcbryan View Post
    When do you think you'll have them in stock?

    What makes you think the CPF user doesn't use a headlamp for outdoor activities? I'm a rock climber as well.

    I don't do a lot of rock climbing at night but there is some overlap (day/night) in getting off the rock.

    How are you managing now to see the rock and look ahead to figure out the route/find anchors, etc.?
    Ha, not a dealer. Just making friendly counter points.

    Not saying there isn't overlap or that CPF users aren't going outside, just that Petzl probably did product development with the hard core alpine set rather than those of us with Digital Volt meters and 6 18650s etc etc.

    I too try to avoid getting darked on on the wall. Right now I climb with an old BD Zenix. Last time I "night climbed" I spent most of my time in 5mm LED flood mode. When I could stop I would switch over to spot mode and search for the anchors. The key is WHEN I COULD. I had to take on the rope a few times because the climbing was too strenuous to stop and I need to see "which crack" was the right one.

    I could also see the auto feature being REALLY helpful while rappelling in the dark....

  27. #27
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by mattm01 View Post
    Ha, not a dealer. Just making friendly counter points.

    Not saying there isn't overlap or that CPF users aren't going outside, just that Petzl probably did product development with the hard core alpine set rather than those of us with Digital Volt meters and 6 18650s etc etc.

    I too try to avoid getting darked on on the wall. Right now I climb with an old BD Zenix. Last time I "night climbed" I spent most of my time in 5mm LED flood mode. When I could stop I would switch over to spot mode and search for the anchors. The key is WHEN I COULD. I had to take on the rope a few times because the climbing was too strenuous to stop and I need to see "which crack" was the right one.

    I could also see the auto feature being REALLY helpful while rappelling in the dark....
    I do think it's an interesting concept and as long as you can turn that feature off...great but then again if you do that there are a lot cheaper ways to go.

    If I'm rappelling in the dark and I can manually put it on spot I'm good. It would be annoying for it to go to flood every time I looked at the wall.

    I don't give a great deal of weight to Petzl or any other manufacturer and the testing that they do because I see what they end up with and it generally appears that no testing was done even though I'm sure that's not the case.

    The Petzl Tikka XP2 has a clear plastic housing so one gets glare. No climber or outdoors person would want that and would complain about that immediately. It also doesn't have a real low. Black Diamond with the Storm offers spot and flood but the only way to choose one or the other is to turn the unit off and then back on again. It toggles between the two. If you always use spot mode it will always be in the wrong mode when you turn it on.

    Again, I don't see that any meaningful testing is actually done. Maybe they give units to their staff or customers and ask them to try to tear it up to make sure it's robust but it looks like testing is done after the design is already finalized since feedback from most anyone would result in certain basic changes that just aren't done.

    Princeton Tec EOS has no low mode either or red LED. The Storm uses a plastic that is somewhat translucent as well although without as much glare and the clear bodied Petzl XP2.

    In theory I agree it's cool to have the headlamp "know" when to switch between spot and flood and high and low but I'm skeptical.
    Last edited by gcbryan; 01-20-2012 at 06:20 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by gcbryan View Post
    I'm skeptical.
    that should be in your sig line bro.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Quote Originally Posted by robostudent5000 View Post
    that should be in your sig line bro.
    Haha...it's implied

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    Default Re: New Petzl NAO !

    Anybody here wear bifocals?

    You're always arguing with them. You need the distance vision to go down stairs (but you get close-up magnification instead) and if you need to take a close look at anything eye level or above, you have to crick your neck like crazy to get the magnification into play.

    This light will be the "bifocal" of headlamps. It'll be fun to run it on automatic for awhile, then you'll need to switch it to manual when you're done playing around. It may work as advertised for specific applications. I suspect the manual mode will be used a lot.

    Just a prediction. We'll see when it arrives.
    Last edited by Bolster; 01-21-2012 at 10:13 AM.

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