SureFire and Government Contracts

Does anyone here on CPF know what governmental contracts SF has their hands in? For over 2-years, I've been hearing how they (SF) are big with the goverment and various agencies, however most of my contacts who work in some of these goverment agencies have never heard of SureFire, let alone actually owned one of their products.

Ray... I honestly don't understand why you insist on beating this dead horse. On the other hand... maybe I should just flat out give up and tell you that we've all been lieing our asses off to you because it's all just one big conspiracy. There! Is that what you wanted to hear? Now do you feel better?

Bottom line is this Ray... it's none of your business what contracts Surefire has with the government. And if you had any business knowing who in the military uses what lights, you'd know. So I guess that says it all. Give it up, Ray... you've beat this one to a freakin' bloody pulp... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif

Sasha, my family doesn't speak to me in that tone, I certainly don't expect it from a stanger who knows nothing about me. Other than the post I made 24-hours ago in the other thread (which was immediatly censored by you), please show me where I've ever talked about or mentioned this in the past. I feel it's an honest question. If I was asking this same question about any other vendor, you'd have no issue and wouldn't blink twice.

I have always assumed "special forces"...probably not Navy Seals thou...maybe Rangers for example. And probably only those trained for certain types of missions. I imagine the gun mounted types are thier most used ones.

Ken

Ray,

I don't know where most of the SF product goes but I think it is used by special forces branches of the military and special ops programs. I don't get the feeling that we have many members here on CPF that are part of that group. If we do, they aren't very vocal about it. No surprise really. If your contact list is comprehensive of all of these branches, then I can see why you are perplexed. On the other hand, it seems that there is a lot of compartmentalization in the military, understandably, and it may be as simple as on a need to know basis or even ignorance of your contacts as their information relates to certain tools used by their branches?

On a lighter side, maybe all of the SF product goes to area 52! Or maybe SureFire doesn't even exist and we have all been kidding ourselves! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif PK has some 'splainin to do!

To answer your question, I don't know what goverment contracts are in play but I bet if I did, I wouldn't be wise to talk about it here.

I am willing to guess that if it weren't for Sasha and now me posting without really answering your question, that this thread could die off pretty quickly. I say this as I sure haven't seen any "government recepient" post of their use of SF in the past here. It's almost as if you are asking those not present to stand up and be counted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

That was a terrible reaction to have sasha.. You obviously have a grudge with him...

I have investigators in my office who are retired (within the last couple years) city police or sheriff's deputies from the Bay Area. When I showed them my new SF E2E last week they all had never heard of SF. I'll check with my counterpart in the Sheriff's Office next week and see what they buy.
I had also assumed a larger SF presence seems to be the case.

Actually, I don't think it was a terrible reaction. This topic has been beat into the ground. Perhaps not each time by Ray but surely by many others who seem to have some kind of "grudge" against Surefire. And frankly I'm just tired of it. And for the record, I would be tired of it no matter what vendor it was... if it were obsessed over as much as this one is.

The topic of Surefire supplying the military with flashlights has been discussed and re-discussed and questioned and doubted and hashed out and regurgitated and scoffed at ad nauseum.

Ray tried to bring this topic up in the thread about Operation Enlightenment last night and I edited his remarks as they were completely out of line and inappropriate for that thread. Do I have a grudge against Ray for that? Yep... I guess I do... because I just don't understand the selfishness of a person who would ruin such a wonderful thing as that thread with petty comments like that.

And I don't understand why there are so many people around here who think that anyone who says anything good about Surefire is either paid-off by PK or is lieing. I see just too damn much of that here. Would I be accused of being paid by Peter or lieing if I were to stand up for ARC? No... you'd have no issue and wouldn't blink twice.

NewFlash-

From my experience most of LEO's with over 15 years experience don't know about Surefires whereas alot of the newer ones do.

I would guess that all Swat/Merge teams know of Surefire weapons lights.

For the most part Surefire are too expensive to issue to patrol units. Most used to use Streamlight 35's or some stinger versions, not sure anymore.

Some agencies (I believe SJPD) restrict the use of aluminum flashlights, hence SL bringing out the Polystinger line.

A long time ago I was simply told SWAT gets SF, patrol gets SL.

GregR

Hmmm..I could be wrong, but isn't all military equipment (unless it's super-secret stuff) is given a stock number (NSN number)? Military logistics types should have access to this info, if it isn't classified, of course...

--dan

Sasha I agree that your first reply to Ray on this thread was out of line. Very sarcastic and unnecessary, almost like a direct attack on a person that you will censor yourself (and I usually agree when you do) when you see it happen. Having said that, from reading the Iraqi Enlightment thread and from a few others as well, from what information I've read in these posts, I'm appalled at how badly the government apparently has provided our troops for illumination needs. In most cases, they don't seem to need extremely bright tactical lights that Surefire is mainly known for but just decent, long running, reliable lights with a decent output, lights that we know well here on the forum.

geep... and if that's what you want to discuss here, I think it's a very valid topic. It does seem to beg questioning... but it hardly begs a direct attack on Surefire or those who have stated that Surefire does indeed supply certain military units with illumination tools.

Not that it matters much, but I have occasion to associate with several individuals from our countries more "elite" agencies, and though they have never been issued Surefire lights, they are aware of Surefire weapon lights.

They knew that Surefire also made handheld lights, but had not seen any until I showed them mine and they were impressed by the line of lights that Surefire makes.

My brother-in-law was 101st Airborne during Desert Storm/Shield, and has been Active Reserve since. He had not heard of Surefire, but he is going back to Iraq, (probably in January/February) with an A2 I bought for him, and I'm considering an AngleLux or Spaceneedle II if I can find another at a good price to send with him. He is not a Patrol kind of guy now, but supervises track vehicle maintenance. (He was SpecialComm/Comm during the first-go-round).

I would be fairly certain that Surefire has SOME kind of government deal, but don't know that it is a big issue.

What does it change? I've had short time/special assignments with several government agencies, and I'm willing to bet lots of CPF'ers or the companies they work for have also. I do KNOW that lots of Federal/State/local employees use Surefires, because THEY believe them to be the best, regardless of how they got them.

I guess that what I'm trying to say is "Who Cares If They Do Or Not?", it doesn't change a thing!!

Whats that saying of MrBulks "In a hundred years...etc"

Bill

Dano,
I checked the NSN that is engraved on the Infinity Ultra-G (the one that says US Government on it) it kicked back as unknown. NSNs exist and dissappear depending on what type of supply system is accessed. Mine is the medical side so things such as Surefires or Infinities don't exist.
The military will go through your bags before you get on a military aircraft...they are specifically looking for lithium batteries. If they find them, they confiscate lithiums and won't let them on the aircraft. Surefires are very rare birds and are hard to use without batteries. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
The special forces I delt with use night vision goggles. Never saw a Surefire on those guys. Basically, Surefires are extremely rare and the people that have them, generally buy them with their own money.

Why the no Lithium rule, I know lots of soldiers are using lithium lights over there?

Bill

I've seen plenty of Surefire weapon lights and handhelds carried mostly by units specializing in "anti-terrorist", "quick reaction" or other entry team/securtiy type duties (sub-groups within special operations). The units that carry them are likely units that participate in low light doctrine training through the military and also through civilian contractors who teach tactics to military and law enforcement (many serious "operators" seek outside instruction on their own as supplement to military training as well) and are probably introduced to the lights as a tool that accompanies the instruction and practice of doctrine, so they may be an "off the shelf" or specialized procurement or even a private purchase and likely limited to those who are thoroughly introduced to their uses in a tactical environment. I think an NSN only puts an item into the procurement system it does not make it available to everyone who may requisition it and doesn't mean there are any in "stores" it just makes it easier for the pencil pushers to "speed" it through the system of military spending.


I think that people take exception to the marketing of the products as being prolific within the military community when in actuality they are not. I kind of get turned off by the "hype" marketing too. They make nice stuff and likely the top quality of the genre but the "force feed" makes me gag a bit before I'll swallow any of it and even makes me hunger for the alternatives.

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have seen many, many photos of soldiers in Iraq using
SureFire products. I seem to remember reading that some
Airborne units had supplied them accross-the-board. Come
to think of it, most of the soldiers I have seen in the
photos were either Airborne or Rangers.

The most recent photo that I saw was or an Airborne NCO with
a Surefire G2 mounted under his the barrel of his rifle
(some M-16 variant). It seemed to have the standard G2 bezel
but had the heavily knurled "charlie" tailcap. He was
featured rather prominently in an article in Time magazine.
It was a compare and contrast type piece. The other
individual featured was an Iraqi "fedayeen" guerilla-type.


"Lux" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for the feedback folks.

Perhaps a couple last thoughts...folks in the military might be just as facinated by bright lights as us. Might be tempted to play with them...perhaps at the wrong time. While the word "tactile" comes up again and again in these forums...there are likely very few missions when lights are used like that in reality.

Those in charge of a group of young soldiers...out in a dangerous area, might prefer them to have unimpressive, mostly dim lights...if any at all. The thought that they could give the groups position away, put everyone at risk, and blow the mission would be the overiding consideration. Other than maybe spotting a trip wire, or avoiding a spider web...they don`t want to see any lights...and only the lead man needs that unless spread out. Nightvision scopes are the things they use these days.

Also...is it possible some could use Surfires without knowing it...just some weapon mounted light they were issued for this mission...a N-Pl6398-sf...maybe they have no idea who makes it...and never thought to ask?

And lastly, I wonder if most gov contracts don`t deal with flashlights but IR projectors used for night vision in totaly dark situations...only problem I see with that is now days, the bad guys are just as likely to have night goggles...an IR projector makes you an easy target. Sort of like pinging a underwater target with sonar...you might see them...but they damm sure will see you.

Ken

Ken

A lot of military purchasing is done without stocknumbers. When I was in the Army, I had a $400,000 budget to spend every year and would use a large chunk of it to buy specialized equipment that was not in the federal supply system. I have no doubt that the Special Ops units do the same thing with their budgets.