Longest throw=smooth reflector. Are you sure?

There is a common perception that a textured or so-called stochastic reflector provides smoothness but sacrifices brightness and throw, and that a non-textured reflector provides brightness and throw but sacrifices moothness. I have always believed this also, but consider this:

Of the three longest-throwing 2x123 lights (TACM, TACLITE, PM6) only the PM6 has a textured reflector yet it equals or exceeds the brightness/throw of the other lights.

The longest-throwing non-turbo 3x123 light is the TL-3 which has a textured reflector.

The longest-throwing Surefire lights are the turboheads which have textured reflectors. (An exception may be the unfortunately discontinued 9NT, one version of which had a non-textured reflector).

At this point it appears that while a non-textured reflector may, under ideal circumstances out-throw an identically situated textured reflector, currently available products show mixed results.

Brightnorm

There are two older style Surefire 3" T-heads one is much smother and has better throw than the other. They both appear to be the same shape with the surface texture being the only difference so I would say smooth still equals more throw. I think the PM6 head is a bit bigger than the Tac and the TL3 head is bigger than all the none turbo 3 cells out there which is why I believe they have better throw.

Hello BrightNorm,

My perception is that given two similar reflectors, the smooth one will out throw the textured one, and the textured one will have a smoother beam than the smooth one. This was demonstrated with the early generation of TigerLight lamps. Chris at Flashlightlens textured some of the first generation lamps in an effort to smooth the beam. The result, in side by side tests, was a smoother beam with the textured reflector at the expense of throw.

I believe you can design a textured reflector to have good throw, and you can design a bulb to have a smooth beam in a smooth reflector. Some of the manufacturers may be putting some effort into desinging good throwing textured reflectors.

Tom

Actually, I do believe that smooth reflectors have the greatest potential for long throw, but I've been very impressed by the performance of some of the texured versions. The Taclite's bezel diameter is 1 3/8" and the PM6's is 1 1/4" but the PM6 exposes about 1mm more of the reflector, not really enough to make a difference, but its greater depth is a factor which is one reason it has proven to be such a good mod host, especially for long-throwing Lux IIIs. And it's true that the TL-3's 1 5/8" reflector is responsible for its long throw.

BTW, anyone know where I can get a smooth 9NT or is that a hopeless quest?

JT, Do you have one of those smooth 3" reflectors that you'd like to sell?

BN

Hello BrightNorm,

Good luck finding a 9NT. LPS Tactical had a few some time ago, but I think they are all gone now.

I'll keep my eyes open and let you know if I find one.

Tom

I think that given two reflectors of the same dimensions, one being textured and the other not, and also assuming they have the same exact type of plating or reflective coating, they will both reflect the same amount of OVERALL light. As far as throw, smooth reflectors do a little better because they have those little hot spots within the hot spot, if that makes sense.

Just a guess, but maybe they have these "hot" hot spots is because at a given focal point, it may reflect 360 degrees of the filiment (not really possible, but close) at that one spot. Smooth reflectors can't really do this as easily because that focal 360 degree ring is now jagged and more random.....just a guess.....?????

ADDED: I think that the type of texture obviously plays a huge part in it too. Of the textured lights that rival smooth, what type of texture is it, small, large,...????

The smooth, somewhat expensive, highly polished, aluminum reflector/xenon lamp unit of a SuperPeliLite has surprising throw. The spot is small even at 300'. Of course it's not real bright being only 2.2 watts of xenon/2C power.

I have a PT Tec40 and Tec 20,one came with a smooth reflector and the other with a textured.

I have found that putting the textured reflector in the Tec40 just very slightly reduces its throw but increases its brightness quite a bit,it has a brighter round more uniform beam than with the smooth reflector.

I have found just the opposite in the TEC 20.By putting the smooth reflector in this light the added beam throw makes this light appear more bright,more useful.

I think the Mag lights could really benefit from the option of textured reflectors.

Throw is more attributed to a properly focused filament in a true parabolic reflector. If the filament is not centered exactly or if the reflector is not a real parabola, then throw will suffer. Texturing a smooth reflector does lessen throw, because if you actually able to perfectly center the filament in a perfectly smooth parabolic reflector much of the light that would normally being leaving the reflector parallel to other light is lost in random reflections off to the sides. However, the added benefit is of course a smooth beam. (discussed very vigorously in another post! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'd take a perfectly factory centered beam like a P60 with texturing over a smooth, hand-focused, maybe centered bulb in a Mag anyday. IMHO of course. Aloooooha.

I am really pleased with the throw of my PMR, smooth, in my 5C mag with Carley 605 krypton bulb, with or without glass lens. Very tight focus, that out throws my SL35X, and 20X. Krypton bulb is running at about 10 watts with 5 NiMH C's. If I ever pot my WA01160's I will test them using same reflector.

Bill

[ QUOTE ]
soloco said:
I'd take a perfectly factory centered beam like a P60 with texturing over a smooth, hand-focused, maybe centered bulb in a Mag anyday. IMHO of course. Aloooooha.

[/ QUOTE ] You'd take a $ 17 LA over a $20 Maglite? Hmm. Apples to oranges?

I'd take a hand-focussable Surefire-quality LA over a Maglite one. That sounds more plausible.

Give me flexibility or give me death! (Errr /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif )

[ QUOTE ]
Mark_Larson said:
[ QUOTE ]
soloco said:
I'd take a perfectly factory centered beam like a P60 with texturing over a smooth, hand-focused, maybe centered bulb in a Mag anyday. IMHO of course. Aloooooha.

[/ QUOTE ] You'd take a $ 17 LA over a $20 Maglite? Hmm. Apples to oranges?

I'd take a hand-focussable Surefire-quality LA over a Maglite one. That sounds more plausible.

Give me flexibility or give me death! (Errr /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif )

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are waiting on Surefire you might be in trouble b/c we will never see a focusable light from them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The non-textured reflector always provides brightness and throw but sacrifices smoothness.
It may not have this problem in Luxeon, right?? i not sure.
Luxeon made to emit their 180 degree light more precisely than incandescent, so they dont need a textured reflector.

Isnt it the smoothness beam of non-textured reflector incandescent due to the uneven 360 degree light of light bulb?

Right,

Short of doing actual beam profile measurements at great distances, the "perception" of throw is really what we are judging and not the actual objective performance. The image processing characteristics of the human eye aside, when we see a region of bright/dark contrast, we can then resolve a visual feature. It is my contention that the ability of smooth reflectors to image all the little features of the filament results in a plenitude of these contrast regions thus enhancing the perception that "something" is there. Namely, a discernible spot of any illuminating significance. The softer graduation of homogeneous hotspot to spill to no light typically seen with texturized reflectors fades smoothly, diminishing the number and intensity of these contrast regions.

Wilkey

Can anyone tell me if there is something on the package of the Surefire 3" T-Heads, that tells if the reflector is smooth or textured. I've opened and am using two and they are both textured. The other five are still in the shrink wrap, and I don't want to open one, unless I could tell if it's a smooth reflector first. Want to compare them with each other.
oldgrandpajack

I don't believe SF make any smooth reflectors.

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SilverFox said:
Hello BrightNorm,

Good luck finding a 9NT. LPS Tactical had a few some time ago, but I think they are all gone now.

I'll keep my eyes open and let you know if I find one.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Tom,

BN

[ QUOTE ]
oldgrandpajack said:
Can anyone tell me if there is something on the package of the Surefire 3" T-Heads, that tells if the reflector is smooth or textured. I've opened and am using two and they are both textured. The other five are still in the shrink wrap, and I don't want to open one, unless I could tell if it's a smooth reflector first. Want to compare them with each other.
oldgrandpajack

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not totally smooth but as you can see one is much smoother than the other.