Batteries with built-in micro USB charging

Have any of you guys had practical experience with the batteries that have built-in micro USB charging? Today the new Fenix ones caught my eye but I'm wondering how these hold up and how they compare safety-wise, etc. It certainly would add a whole new level of convenience if I could simply pop a battery into a micro USB port at work and not need a charger assuming that I'm not compromising somewhere else (other than price).

https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-arb-l18-3500u-usb-rechargeable-li-ion-18650-battery/

Answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

I'm not a fan of USB flashlights, but that's the better play IMO. Why limit yourself to whatever Fenix is using, at the sake of all of the better cells we have, which in all but a few instances, can be charged up in any of dozens of USB flashlights?

You can go buy an Xtar MC1+ ANT for $10 bucks and stash that away, or you can go buy a Liitokala Lii 202/100 for <$7 had have good chargers at your fingertips.

Chris

I would be concerned about ...

● connector reliability
● battery size and fitment issues
● possible risks of short circuit
● limited choice of underlying cell
● specifics of charge algorithm
● likelihood of charging in suboptimal environment
● additional cost

... and perhaps others.

For what advantage ? Convenience ?

Myself, I would rather use the specific cells and charger(s) that I prefer.

SoCalTiger said:

Have any of you guys had practical experience with the batteries that have built-in micro USB charging? Today the new Fenix ones caught my eye but I'm wondering how these hold up and how they compare safety-wise, etc. It certainly would add a whole new level of convenience if I could simply pop a battery into a micro USB port at work and not need a charger assuming that I'm not compromising somewhere else (other than price).

Click to expand...

I don't have the 18650 version but I did try out the 1.5v AA version. Last November during a Black Friday sale, Fenix Lighting was offering an ARB-L14-1600U battery with the sale of the new LD12, 2017. So this is a 1.50v rechargeable lithium ion battery. To be honest, I was a little reluctant about it. I did a run time test at the level 2 output on the LD12 and got almost the same run time as a 2000mAh Eneloop. The Fenix battery is 1600mAh but a higher voltage than the Eneloop. So the amount of energy is pretty much the same. So performance is good. It's just that I don't like the idea of having that charge port on the side of the battery. I just feel it adds a level of complexity to the battery and for something to go bad. If the charging circuit goes bad, then the battery is useless as it can't charged any other way. Maybe I'm a little nit-picky but I decided that this concept isn't for me.

A gaping hole in a battery?! Yikes! Please not in my garden

They make Ds and 9v rechargeable batteries like that now, too. They're only attractive options if you don't already own a charger that fit those batteries. It's a way to reach out to new potential customers, and make things easier and more appealing. Those are multi-cell batteries inside a wrapper, though.

This is a single 18650 with a micro-USB port built into the protection circuit, so this might not be too bad. Imagine a battery with a built in battery control module. Programming a battery might not be very useful, but being able to access a log of the batteries usage history would be really helpful. It could keep track of whether it's been over discharged, how many times, and to what degree.

Does this battery do that? No. Will I buy one? No. But I also won't discourage other people from buying them. In fact, if they don't own a charger already, I might even suggest they look into it. And if a few years down the line this leads to a smarter 18650, we're all the better for it.

The New Fenix 18650 with an built in micro-usb port has it place in the market for people who are non-techy but want an 18650 flashlight but dont want to mess with charging 18650 battery on a battery charger, they can just use their phone or tablet charger to juice it up, and it has a plethora of protection which is a lot better than an buying an bare 18650 when you know nothing about li-ion battery`s you may say buy a protected 18650 which is what i would recommend but these people know nothing.

John.

I've gotta say I think the specs of this battery are BS.
The max capacity of 18650's at present is 3500mah, to make room for onboard Charing port and circuitry the actual battery part has to be shorter than an 18650. If it's just an 18500 with a fancy charging cap popped on too then it's ~22% shorter than an 18650 meaning it will have roughly that percentage less capacity so it can only really be ~2700mah.
Also it's RRP is nearly $30!! Even at its $23 offer price you can still buy a 30Q and a reasonable charger for that much!
Also (I may be blind) I see no discharge rating which, even with a protection circuit, I think is dangerous.

Thom2022 said:

I've gotta say I think the specs of this battery are BS.
The max capacity of 18650's at present is 3500mah, to make room for onboard Charing port and circuitry the actual battery part has to be shorter than an 18650. If it's just an 18500 with a fancy charging cap popped on too then it's ~22% shorter than an 18650 meaning it will have roughly that percentage less capacity so it can only really be ~2700mah.

Also (I may be blind) I see no discharge rating which, even with a protection circuit, I think is dangerous.

Click to expand...

This was a question in my mind too. How can these batteries claim the exact same capacity as the versions that do not have the charging thing? Unlikely.

FYI - I tried asking Fenix (via chat) for the discharge rating and apparently not even their customer service has that information.

SoCalTiger said:

FYI - I tried asking Fenix (via chat) for the discharge rating and apparently not even their customer service has that information.

Click to expand...

That's screams avoid at all costs to me.

SoCalTiger said:

FYI - I tried asking Fenix (via chat) for the discharge rating and apparently not even their customer service has that information.

Click to expand...

Generally you should not expect to find battery expertise in such companies, e.g. compare my fiasco with Olight customer support.

In response to people questioning capacity- the cell is 70mm long. Couldn't that be a GA or something with a compact circuit? Aren't the longest protected still like 69ish mm?

Need a Light? said:

In response to people questioning capacity- the cell is 70mm long. Couldn't that be a GA or something with a compact circuit? Aren't the longest protected still like 69ish mm?

Click to expand...

Well, there's that answer to how they can claim the same capacity. An 18650 cell that is really 18700 could very well have the same capacity as a similar 18650 cell that doesn't have the charging circuit. The only problem is that that extra 5mm means that there are a good number of flashlights out there that the longer cell won't fit into, especially if it uses two cells in series. We've had people discover that their cell that is 67mm in length instead of 65mm won't fit in their light.

Personally, if a person doesn't feel capable of handling a separate charge for Li-Ion cells but still wants the lpower, then let them get a light that features the ability to charge the cell(s) in situ, that is, while in the light. If it's a quality light it will have a much better charging circuit than what can fit into the end of a cell, and there would be no worry about whether or not a cell would fit.

I have reviewed and disassembled some usb charged 18650 batteries:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/MecArmy 18650 U18-34 3400mAh (Black-red) UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Lumintop 18650 3400mAh usb (White) UK.html

http://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly18650usb UK.html

FYI, I finally got this reply via email:

"The maximum discharge rate for the ARB-L18-3500U battery is 11.1W"

Click to expand...

At 4.2V, that works out to only 2.64A. At 3.7V, it's 3A.

Seems really low?

At any rate, as has been pointed out, there are better battery options anyway.

SoCalTiger said:

FYI, I finally got this reply via email:


At 4.2V, that works out to only 2.64A. At 3.7V, it's 3A.

Seems really low?

At any rate, as has been pointed out, there are better battery options anyway.

Click to expand...

That seems about right..

This seems like a pretty wierd feature to want. I do love my Nitecore MH20 with in-light charging, though, but if I have to remove battery from light anyway, and find a USB cable, why not just use an external charger?

Also, micro USB is on its way out, so if we're going to make batteries with built in plugs (and corresponding lower capacity and increased points of failure), why not go all out and use USB-C ?

hiuintahs said:

I don't have the 18650 version but I did try out the 1.5v AA version. Last November during a Black Friday sale, Fenix Lighting was offering an ARB-L14-1600U battery with the sale of the new LD12, 2017. So this is a 1.50v rechargeable lithium ion battery. To be honest, I was a little reluctant about it. I did a run time test at the level 2 output on the LD12 and got almost the same run time as a 2000mAh Eneloop. The Fenix battery is 1600mAh but a higher voltage than the Eneloop. So the amount of energy is pretty much the same. So performance is good. It's just that I don't like the idea of having that charge port on the side of the battery. I just feel it adds a level of complexity to the battery blah blah blah...

Click to expand...

A 1.5v lithium ion rechargeable battery... What arouse my interest is its capability in the low drain performance, since in other normal usage the typical eneloop can do what this 1.5v Li-On is capable of. The one I kinda have interest in for this battery is: CLOCK. Yes, the typical wall clock which uses 1xAA. I have tried eneloop in the clock before but only last around 4 month before it came to a halt. Compared to alkaleak, those typical alkaleak can last for about a year before needing a change, but at the risk of ruining the clock by the leak by the time of changing the battery. Typical heavy duty carbon-zinc battery pack less punch than alkaline so is also out of question. Disposable lithium primaries cost kinda too much for its usage. So, is this rechargeable 1.5v lithium ion battery suitable for wall clock, say for example, able to last at least a year after a full charge?

Let's do some back-of-envelope calculations for the low-rate performance of the Kentli Li-ion AA that was reviewed by HKJ. At the lowest current tested by HKJ (0.1A) the Kentli yields 2.4Wh, vs. 3.4Wh at 0.1A for a Duracell Ultra Power AA. So the Kentli has only about 70% of the energy of the Duracell at 0.1A. Further, it has higher self-discharge, and will lose energy to the buck and protection circuits ("30 to 40uA or 300uA" says HKJ). It's not clear which current applies, so let's consider both, and let's assume that they stay in 70% energy proportion at the lower rate of the clock.

The higher current 300uA is roughly the same current as the clock (assuming the Duracell lasts 1 year), which means the clock gets only half the Kentli's energy, i.e. 35% of the Duracell. So if the Duracell lasts a year then the Kentli would last only a 3-4 months, depending on its self-discharge rate.

OTOH, if the average current is "30 to 40uA" then the clock gets about 90% of the Kentli's energy, about 6-7 months life.

Perhaps HKJ can elaborate on his remark, so we can determine which current applies.

Gauss163 said:

Perhaps HKJ can elaborate on his remark, so we can determine which current applies.

Click to expand...

When I measured it changed between the two currents.