weapon laws in the UK,confused.

[ringzero]

It seems we are heading for a zero tolerance on any kind of weapon.

Only a century ago the people of Britain enjoyed more personal liberty than most people did in the US. How things have changed.

The sad thing is that I don't see much hope for reversing this trend. There is the far-left Labour Party. There is the middle-left, so-called Conservative Party. There is the quasi-left Lib-Dem Party. Whatever merits each of these Parties may possess, none of them appear to have any interest in promoting personal liberty. When Labour offers up some new outrage, the Conservatives protest that they could accomplish the same objective, only more economically.

There appears to be no genuine conservative party to stand up for the preservation of personal liberties. There seem to be no effective nationwide organizations like the NRA to push back against the tide of leftism in Britain.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but I can't see things getting any better in Britain for the forseeable future. It is a constant battle to maintain those liberties we still have in the US. If the left were to win several big elections in a row here, our personal freedoms could evaporate very quickly.

.

 

[SolarFlare]

Tubors statement about self defense is quite right, you cannot carry for defense. However you can carry a pitch fork if you're off to tend your allotment, you can carry a tanto if you're off to a martial arts class, you can carry a selection of knives if you're off to college to do your cookery course and you can carry an axe, fixed blade knife and a decent length folder too if you're going camping. The reason "self defense" as a reason to carry was deemed unlawful is because any $+*$&* can say it. You need a legitimate reason to carry something that could be perceived as a weapon, fine, I use a walking stick cause my ankle aches (eg). Never let a plod tell you that you can't carry a sak, if it's a slip joint you are entitled to carry it, and if you are carrying a locking blade just have a reason prepared, lets face it, if you can't think of a reason to carry it you don't need to carry it .

 

[nerdgineer]

T...However you can carry a pitch fork if you're off to tend your allotment, you can carry a tanto if you're off to a martial arts class, you can carry a selection of knives if you're off to college to do your cookery course and you can carry an axe, fixed blade knife and a decent length folder too if you're going camping....

Can you carry a straight razor if you need a shave?....

Sorry about that one.....

 

[SolarFlare]

I suppose you could, provided ya look a bit hairy

 

[SolarFlare]

Later In Court

(plod) I said

allo allo allo and wot are you doin carryin this here straight razor sunshine?

to which the defendent replied

I was just of the mind to shave my face in a public convenience, as it happened to conserve a considerable period of my time on my way to the job centre, me lud

 

[cchurchi]

I'm just glad that I have the training, the tools, and the will to defend myself or my family from violence. It's just common sense that a person should have the right to defend themselves.

If someone tries to kill me or say, rape my wife - the attacker is toast. Unfortunately, in places where self defense has been made illegal, you and your family are toast.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

I'm just glad that I have the training, the tools, and the will to defend myself or my family from violence. It's just common sense that a person should have the right to defend themselves.

If someone tries to kill me or say, rape my wife - the attacker is toast. Unfortunately, in places where self defense has been made illegal, you and your family are toast.

You are still allowed to defend yourself quite legaly in the UK from any such type of attack mentioned above. You are right it is It's just plain common sense.

I woulden't agree with the statement that "in places where self defense has been made illegal, you and your family are toast"

Even if you were in such a place that self defence was Illegal, ( an I dont know of a place or country that has those laws) you are only Toast if you allow yourself to be, I guess that you may be in a bit of legal trouble, but that is not realy a big problem compared to being toasted.

I'm Quite happy people in the UK can't legaly carry weapons for self defence. To me it makes the place safer for me, as less weapons goes some way to prevent the normal people who would usually not consider using them, to possibly finding themselves using them in a fit or rage, as they happen to have them on their person at the time.

For the criminals that carry weapons routinely, well, Everybody has something on them at most times that they could use in self defence, ranging from a brief case to a biro or a torch ( flashlight ) to pair of shoes ( for running away ) car keys.....yadda yadda yadda.. the list is endless.

I usualy EDC a bunch of tools all the time I need for my day to day tasks, but certanly never for self defence, that would be illegal.

 

[270winchester]

I'm Quite happy people in the UK can't legaly carry weapons for self defence. To me it makes the place safer for me, as less weapons goes some way to prevent the normal people who would usually not consider using them, to possibly finding themselves using them in a fit or rage

For the criminals that carry weapons routinely, well, Everybody has something on them at most times that they could use in self defence, ranging from a brief case to a biro or a torch ( flashlight ) to pair of shoes ( for running away ) car keys.....yadda yadda yadda.. the list is endless.

righto.

:thinking:

You are still allowed to defend yourself quite legaly in the UK from any such type of attack mentioned above.

I usualy EDC a bunch of tools all the time I need for my day to day tasks, but certanly never for self defence, that would be illegal.

I dont carry them for self defence, but they are tools, but if the situation arose... well its probably better to say if I suddenly looked up and an attacker was looming over me now, i'd make the loon eat my keyboard and mouse.

huh.

so you can carry tools, and you can defend yourself. But if you use the tools on you for self-defense, it would be illegal. But you seem to imply certain things would happen if the "situation arose". How are you going to make him eat your mouse and key board, with your bare hands and your superior linguistic skills?

sounds like an delicate line between legality and there lack of.

 

[270winchester]

It seems we are heading for a zero tolerance on any kind of weapon.That maybe fine in a ideal world,but not in the one we are all living in now.
Sometimes fists are not enough to deter attackers especially multiple.So what options do we have,well none really.For instance I asked a P.O this,"can I EDC my SAK spirit plus",it is best not to was his answer,as it has locking blades,but I could carry a 3" non locking blade as long as I did not use it for defense:thinking: in fact it is best not to carry any pointed object:thinking: was another answer.so came the crunch question can I EDC a flashlight for defense,"yes" to my relief came the answer wait for it, as long as I did not hit my attacker with it as this could be deemed excess force.And the list went on,and this is my conclusion.If you get attacked in the UK dont hit back, phone the Police at once.:thinking:" If you are still able,but then I guess that is why we get free medical care.

are you still seeing the responses from your fellow Brits?

A quick comment on a very complex topic:
I am not by any stretch of the imagination a friend of the NRA; I don't like guns in general; tree-hugging peacemonger etc...

However crap like this upsets me. It's already bad enough that I have to think critically about what I put in my pockets when I go on a trip to California; when I can't bring a SAK or a bottle of water on an airplane.
You can be sure I'm not going to sit quietly whenever politicians try to take away our rights to carry a reasonable firearm, reasonable blade, etc. Self defense is a very valid reason to carry so long as you have been trained in its use. (Regular practice with it should be exercised as well IMO) Of course there will always be squabbles over what is reasonable, but flat out banning of firearms, blades, etc. is just plain stupid. Carrying a folding knife with the intent of self defense isn't a crime... whats next? Convictions for thought-crimes? :thinking:

who decides what's "reasonable"? Californians already can't carry firearms without joining the elite or the PDs. Peopel have sat quietly and feel safer. hey, where I got to school(the oh-so-enlightened Berkeley area) the two women that got raped in my neighborhood(within 2 blocks) in the last few months in broad day light felt safe with no guns around until they got over powered by a man twice their size. No guns involved. yes, very civilized. yeah, it would been a darned shame if they shot the rapist.

 

[cchurchi]

Yes, my wife is only 115 lbs. I'm not sure anything in her purse would be helpfull if a 300 lb. rapist comes after her in a dark parking lot..... other then the titanium/scandium Smith and Wesson 360PD 357 magnum that she is quite accurate with, that is.

I guess some people won't change their minds on this issue until someone they love is choked to death or raped by an "unarmed" criminal.
:twothumbs

 

[Raoul_Duke]

sounds like an delicate line between legality and there lack of.

That just about it mate.

I stay within the law with what I EDC, I have to, Why risk going to jail for something that will possibly never happen. I'm a good looking guy but I'm not going to carry a gun and risk 5 years in jall for just owning an illegal firearm, just because I might get raped, I'm not that handsome.

But If somebody decides to break the law as far as my, or my loved ones, saftey goes, all bets are off so to speak, I will deal with the legal ramifications after the event; I may even be more prepared than the average fellow, which goes along way to discourage most opertunist criminals. I can say that with certanty fom my own personal experiences.

I think thats fair enough, I can live with it, as no amout of ranting, or even campaining is going to bring back our right to carry weapons for self deffence, a right we once had BTW. Its realistic. We have to live with it.

They are the cards I have been delt with, and thats how I play. Its all I have. I have just learned to live with it.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

Yes, my wife is only 115 lbs. I'm not sure anything in her purse would be helpfull if a 300 lb. rapist comes after her in a dark parking lot..... other then the titanium/scandium Smith and Wesson 360PD 357 magnum that she is quite accurate with, that is.

If your wife is in a DARK parking lott you need to give up some more of your flashlights Dude.

I guess some people won't change their minds on this issue until someone they love is choked to death or raped by an "unarmed" criminal.
:twothumbs

Thats a nice thought.
What every you say doesn't matter if it changes our minds or not, because we dont have that choice.
We all have to make do with what we have.
Weapons wont help if your head isn't wired correctly, no matter what you have in a purse or pocket. ( I'm sure you already know this)

 

[Lightraven]

There is always a choice. It's just sometimes it is all bad choices.

Regardless of where a person lives, or what that person's job, there always have been and always will be, restrictions on weapons. Chinese citizens were prohibited from carrying swords unless they were soldiers a thousand years before guns were invented.

Anybody think "elite" cops can carry anything wherever they want? Far from it. The FBI Hostage Rescue Team got in hot water over a locked case full of guns they checked in on a flight from Europe. I could give a list as long as my arm what I can or cannot carry, where and when based on whose authority. Then, there are the gray areas--not explicitly prohibited or authorized. Or prohibited by one authority and authorized by another.

Nobody gets a blank check. Everybody has to make choices, sometimes between several risky alternatives. I respect other people's choices, because I have gone back and forth myself. There are a few risks: physical, economic, and legal. You can try to customize a strategy to minimize all three, or minimize one or two at the expense of the others. One strategy doesn't work for everybody, or even one person all the time.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

There is always a choice. It's just sometimes it is all bad choices.

Regardless of where a person lives, or what that person's job, there always have been and always will be, restrictions on weapons. Chinese citizens were prohibited from carrying swords unless they were soldiers a thousand years before guns were invented.

Anybody think "elite" cops can carry anything wherever they want? Far from it. The FBI Hostage Rescue Team got in hot water over a locked case full of guns they checked in on a flight from Europe. I could give a list as long as my arm what I can or cannot carry, where and when based on whose authority. Then, there are the gray areas--not explicitly prohibited or authorized. Or prohibited by one authority and authorized by another.

Nobody gets a blank check. Everybody has to make choices, sometimes between several risky alternatives. I respect other people's choices, because I have gone back and forth myself. There are a few risks: physical, economic, and legal. You can try to customize a strategy to minimize all three, or minimize one or two at the expense of the others. One strategy doesn't work for everybody, or even one person all the time.

Excellent post!

 

[270winchester]

so simple question, if a woman is properly trained in pistols, do you think she should be allowed to carry a handgun to protect herself against rapists? let's say the law doesn't prohibit it, since you are so concerned about legality of things.

If your wife is in a DARK parking lott you need to give up some more of your flashlights Dude.




Thats a nice thought.
What every you say doesn't matter if it changes our minds or not, because we dont have that choice.
We all have to make do with what we have.
Weapons wont help if your head isn't wired correctly, no matter what you have in a purse or pocket. ( I'm sure you already know this)

 

[jayflash]

What's the average voter turnout like in the UK? Often, in the US, we only have about ~30% voting, except in some national elections where almost 50% of the eligible voters will cast ballots.

Is the UK's anti gun/knife legislation popular with the average voter?

The State Assembly Representative from my area recently introduced legislation to allow teachers to carry guns. He was instantly labeled a kook and the idea was dismissed. Normally I don't agree with his politics, but considering the violence in our schools, I tend to agree with him on this issue.

 

[Paladin]

Throats are quite vulnerable. Rains a lot in the UK. Carry an umbrella, and practice using it as a psuedo-spear. One strike is all you will get, or need. A #2 pencil per G. Gordon Liddy also works.

Paladin

 

[TITAN1833]

What's the average voter turnout like in the UK? Often, in the US, we only have about ~30% voting, except in some national elections where almost 50% of the eligible voters will cast ballots.

Is the UK's anti gun/knife legislation popular with the average voter?

The State Assembly Representative from my area recently introduced legislation to allow teachers to carry guns. He was instantly labeled a kook and the idea was dismissed. Normally I don't agree with his politics, but considering the violence in our schools, I tend to agree with him on this issue.

In the UK we have no say,in the making of laws.Now just to add to the confusion our queen-apparently carries a knife in her hand bag,all I can say-send your subjects the correct message,carry a knife hmm! if I can find out the excuse for her to carry a knife,I would be covered.

 

[270winchester]

if I can find out the excuse for her to carry a knife,I would be covered.

in case the dinner meat is too tough?

 

[Jay R]

Is the UK's anti gun/knife legislation popular with the average voter?

Yes. We sit in front of the TV watching 'another' high school shooting in the US and thank God that we don't have that problem. The only thing similar was over a decade ago when a nutter walked into a school in Scotland with an axe.
Gun and knife crime over here is starting to go up a bit ( or just reported more on the news ) and there has been a few cases of teenagers getting killed recently so they have made sentences stiffer and changed the laws to fit. An example is a new law that makes it a criminal offence to 'look after' or 'hold' a weapon for someone else.