Pimp my Surefire 9P!

[Southpaw1969]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post, so be gentle. :o

Anyway, a little background. An old GF of mine gave me a Surefire 9P back in '99 as a gift before we both took a tactical firearms class. Before that, I only had maglites, and compared to those, this thing was like having a searchlight in your hand! (notice I didn't say pocket, because unless you're Shaq, a 9P won't fit in your pocket, at least not comfortably enough for EDC)

It is rather bright, but lets face it. It's '90's tech. It takes 3 CR123 cells, and the runtime sucks. Those were some expensive lumens back then when those cells were like 5 bucks each or more.

I'd like to be able to use it as the bump in the night, wall of light torch, but would prefer a more efficient bulb, and possibly some kind of rechargeable cell setup to get some of those "guilt free lumens" I keep hearing about. :laughing:

So, from experience, what do you guys think the ways to go are? Incan or LED drop in recommendations? Cell configurations? It is setup for 3 CR123 cells as you obviously know, so is it best to go with 3 rcr123's, or 2 of something else, or even one really long cell (if there is such a thing?)

I've been reading posts on this forum for several days before I posted, and am still uncertain. If you could give some rec's or point me to specific threads that would be good too.

Thanks! :wave:

 

[DM51]

Welcome to CPF, Southpaw1969 :)

That sounds like a nice vintage 9P you have.

From your comments about runtime, you may already be leaning in the direction of LED, which would undoubtedly give you more actual light for a longer time, as LEDs are more efficient at using power than incan bulbs. Incan still has its firm adherents because of the excellent full-spectrum quality of the light.

Most seasoned CPFers use both LED and Incan, depending on the requirement. I certainly use both myself.

It will depend on how much and how often you use your light. There are good rechargeable solutions for the 9P, and I will leave other members to advise you of those. A 3-cell light like the 9P is particularly good format for this, as you can use 2x Li-Ion rechargeable cells with the same incan bulb as 3x CR123A primaries.

I think it is worth leaving this thread here in the Incan section for a while so that the incan adherents can advise you of the options; if after this you feel you want to look at LEDs instead, then just post here to say so, and I'll move your thread to the LED Flashlight section.

 

[Roger999]

If you're going for an incan, how about 2X17500 AW lico cells paired with a lumensfactory ES-9 for a 70minute runtime? If you want an LED, then how about the malkoff m60? the malkoff dropins are expensive though.

 

[yellow]

to bore the body to accomodate 18500 cells will dramatically increase the power You can load into the light.

 

[JNewell]

The 9P and similar SureFire are great lights. If you want an incan option, how about the KT-2 turbohead? I ran my Z3 (very similar light) that way for a long time and was highly satisfied.

In the end, if only because of their greater runtimes, you may wind up adding an LED conversion to your options, but that doesn't mean you can't keep and use an incan option also. They do have different advantages.

Welcome!

 

[computernut]

As Roger999 said you can use 2xAW17500's and a Lumens Factory bulb that can handle 2x3.7v. I use both the ES-9 and SR-9 in my Surefire G3 but tend to use the SR-9 for the extra brightness. Nice thing is that in a pinch you can always throw in 3xCR123's without changing the bulb.

 

[old4570]

Full LED , 2x17500 ...

Just chose a 8.4v drop in ...

 

[JCD]

Pick two:

Brightness
High quality, full spectrum light
Long runtimes


Next, are you interested in switching to rechargeable cells? If so, are you willing to have the battery tube bored out slightly to accommodate larger cells?

 

[M@elstrom]

Battery configuration
2 x 500mm length Rechargeable Lithium cells (17mm OR 18mm diameter)
2 x AA (in a pinch option with low Vf ranged P60 LED module)


P60 lamp assembly
1 x incandescent assembly (7.4v tolerant)
1 x ThruNite XP-G R5 3 mode P60 module (2.7~9.0v)
1 x Custom P60 module (so many to choose from in B/S/T)

When you asked us to "pimp" your 9P did you mean aesthetically as well? :devil:

 

[mdocod]

Hello Southpaw1969!

Welcome to CPF!

Many will suggest that you should bore your body so you can use 18500 cells instead of 17500 cells.

In some cases, boring makes lots of since, in others, it's not eeking out much, and in still further cases, the increased capacity isn't necessary for the intended application. Personally, I suggest buying an aftermarket body that is already bored to fit 18mm cells rather than sending yours off for boring. This will keep your body in original condition so that the flashlight can be reverted back to original form. Pretty hard to put that aluminum back once it's been removed.

In the case of a a 4xCR123 body, when li-ion conversions are done, I highly recommend boring or an aftermarket body because the difference between the capacity of a 17670 and 18650 is pretty noteworthy, 1.5X or so.

In the case of a 3xCR123 length light like your 9P, a pair of 50mm long li-ion cells is used to substitute. Here we have 17500 vs 18500 cells. In actual testing, a typical 18500 is only packing about 1.25X that of a 17500. The difference here isn't as dramatic. If you want the absolute highest possible energy packed into the 3xCR123 length light in a rechargeable format, 18500s are the way to go. If you are willing to go another cell length longer, a pair of 18650s in a 2x18650 aftermarket body will store more than double the energy of 2x17500s, and about 1.75X as much as a pair of 18500s. A pair of 18650s can drive tons of lamp options. Your P90 stock lamp would run for almost 2 hours in this configuration.

Personally, the 4xCR123 length lights (2x18650) I have found to be just a little longer than I like, so I compromise and go with 2x18500s for *most* configurations that I keep assembled. If I am heading out to do something with a flashlight that I anticipate will take a long time I'll pack a 1 cell extender and some 18650s in the spares bag.

Oh.... one last thing:

Think of a CR123 as a 2.5V (+/-0.25V) battery. Which is more like what it is when actually loaded by lamps and such. This will help alleviate the next question that is certainly brewing :)

---------

In recent years, LED options have very handily started catching up with the output of even 3xCR123 and 4xCR123 size flashlights. Not to mention, they run longer for the same output, or can give more output for the same runtime.

To give an idea of how dramatic the difference has become:
A pair of 17500s in your 9P will run the P90 (120+ torch lumen average output) for about 1 hour. Maybe 50 minutes.
That same pair of cells driving a modern R5 buck regulated drop-in module, would produce well in excess of 200 solid torch lumens continuously with no dimming for more like 2 hours.

----------

It has been in my personal experience, that outdoors, in earthy back-dropped environments, I need half as many incan lumens as LED lumens to feel the same comfort level with identification of objects and targets around me. This is subjective and everyone has their own opinions on the LED vs incan thing. Considering that a decent LED module can be had for less than $25-30, it's almost a no brainier to just pick one up to experiment with regardless.

Eric

 

[JCD]

In the case of a 3xCR123 length light like your 9P, a pair of 50mm long li-ion cells is used to substitute. Here we have 17500 vs 18500 cells. In actual testing, a typical 18500 is only packing about 1.25X that of a 17500. The difference here isn't as dramatic. If you want the absolute highest possible energy packed into the 3xCR123 length light in a rechargeable format, 18500s are the way to go.

I'd just like to add that, aside from a little bit of extra capacity, there is another important advantage of using 2x 18500 cells instead of 2x 17500 cells. Being able to use 2x 18500 cells in the light will allow the OP to run the P91, arguably the best 26 mm lamp assembly offered by Surefire, on rechargeable cells in his 9P. It just sucks down too much current to safely and reliably run on 17500 cells. The cells will exceed their 2C maximum safe discharge rate. Without rechargeable cells, the P91 has an operating cost of $13.50 per hour (based on 20 minute runtime and $1.50 per CR123A primary cell), just in batteries.

 

[mdocod]

JCD,

I would be concerned running a P91 on a pair of IMR18500s as I would suspect a high likelihood of insta-flash problems. The LiCo chemistry protected 18500s are actually the better bet here as they will have slightly more resistance and be less apt to pop the lamp. Yes, the 18500 size is needed in the LiCo cells to run the P91, the 17500s are too small.

Eric

 

[JCD]

JCD,

I would be concerned running a P91 on a pair of IMR18500s as I would suspect a high likelihood of insta-flash problems. The LiCo chemistry protected 18500s are actually the better bet here as they will have slightly more resistance and be less apt to pop the lamp. Yes, the 18500 size is needed in the LiCo cells to run the P91, the 17500s are too small.

Eric

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I'll edit my post accordingly.

 

[angelofwar]

Malkoff M60F for your "Bump in the night" light. Welcome to CPF BTW, and I'm sure you'll find the BEST advice on the internet here, r.e. lights anyways.

EDIT: You can even add a crenualted bezel from a 6PD to it for even more "bite". Check out the marketplace if yer interested in that.

 

[Southpaw1969]

Wow, thanks for all the great replies! :wave:

Ok, let me be even more specific now that I have more to go on.

I would prefer to not have to send it out for boring. The brightness isn't bad, and it would be nice to get more lumens, but I don't want to pay what it would cost to just go buy a fenix or quark to do it.

My real concern, is runtime and/or efficiency- so, to clarify, if I were to leave the stock bulb assembly (which is marked P90, and has ink on the outside of the reflector saying "NB-2", if that means anything) I can run it with 3 RCR123 cells that won't make it any brighter or run much longer if at all, or, I can run it on 2 17500 cells. Will the 17500 cells either give me more lumens, or runtime on the stock lamp?

Can you guys give me a ballpark figure on an improved drop-in?


Thanks again!

 

[NE450No2]

I would take a look at getting the SureFire P60L lamp assembly.
It is a LED, and it will still light up on batteries that will not light u the incandescent bulb. Also you can use 2 AA's in your 9P and they will light u the P 60L.

Then I would take a look at the lamp assemblies offered by Lighthound, both Incandescent and LED.

Which ever light assemblies fit your usage can be carried in the SureFire spares carrier, along with 6 batteries.

So you can put the lamp assembly/battery combo in your 9P that suits your purposes best.

I did not mention anything about rechargeables as I do not use them in my small handhelds. I prefer the 123A batteries, as I like their no drama use and long storage life.

I do not get "free lumens", but I do get reliable, and long storage life lumens.

Which for Me is a better plan.

 

[Chrontius]

wall-of-light and bump-in-the-night?

Malkoff MC-E.

It may not run any longer than your old bulbs, but it's about two or three times as bright as a P91, if I recall correctly, and it's a broad room-filling flood.

 

[JCD]

wall-of-light and bump-in-the-night?

Malkoff MC-E.

It may not run any longer than your old bulbs, but it's about two or three times as bright as a P91, if I recall correctly, and it's a broad room-filling flood.

I would be very surprised if a Malkoff M60 MC-E drop-in is 2-3 times brighter than a P91 if both are driven by fresh cells. While I couldn't find the Malkoff MC-E drop-in or the exact setup for the P91 a 9P, similar configurations in an integrating sphere show the MC-E to range from unnoticeably (to the naked eye) dimmer to unnoticeably brighter than the Surefire lamp assembly. Surefire has apparently been extremely conservative with their output claims.

In my own less scientific back yard comparisons, my P91 appears brighter than my MC-E drop-in (similar spill, brighter hotspot).

 

[mdocod]

Depends on how you run the P91 and when you take the lumen measurement.

The 200 lumen claim from SF isn't all that entirely over-rated if you interpret the claim as an average output over the 20 minutes of claimed runtime on 3xCR123s. With fresh cells, it's obviously going to be fair bit brighter than that, and if we over-drive it with a pair of large li-ion cell, it's going to be much brighter still.

Depending on the Malkoff MCE module chosen combined with luck of the draw on emitters, the output range is going to be in the 400-600 torch lumen territory as I understand.

The P91 can break 400 torch lumens when driven hard, but might only be 200-250 torch lumen when measured half way through a discharge on a set of CR123s.

So if one were to compare very specific circumstances, the MCE Malkoff module can be 2-3X brighter than the P91, in other cases, it's possible for the P91 to be just as bright.

 

[DrDave]

Try to get the latest LED bulb that fits your light and use 3 high quality CR123A batteries.
Forget about guilt free lumens, it can be a dangerous game, for example if you overcharge a 18650 it can blow up, If you drain too much of a 18650, it can blow up. To hell with that junk .......