My AAA lights runtime test...

[Dances with Flashlight]

Do you think the 3LED Matterhorn will have equivalent, if not the same runtime as the single LED being tested above? The light being produced after 48hrs from the Matterhorn is mind-blowing truthfully, and I am on the verge of buying the 3LED, but I want to get some questions answered first before jumping the gun. Bumping back to a question I had above, if you were to guess which light will outlast one another.... a level 1 Peak Eiger, or the Snow White Peak Matterhorn (1 LED), which will be your pick/guess?

I can recall no direct output comparison between the #1 Eiger and the 1/3 LED Matterhorn (at it's lowest drive level). But for maximum useful runtime, the Eiger should win hands down because of the efficiency of the XPG. Quite simply, the Eiger produces far more light at a given power level than the Matty, and so it can be expected to produce useful light for a longer period.

These real world runtime tests are always fascinating and always raise the question - how much light do you need or want?

 

[scout24]

Photo taken just past 60hrs. this morning right after I got to work. EO1, Matterhorn, Titan, Quark AA in moonlight mode. I'll check on these hourly, and post again when they drop to Titan levels. CaNo- I have an Eiger in Stainless, lug body, and 10180 Li-ion cell size. The Eiger head fits on the Matterhorn tube, and has the versatility of running on a regular AAA as well as the Li-ion cell. 10180 is nice and tiny, but I can stuff a 10440 in the AAA tube if need be. Mine is a power level 1, medium optic. I am also curious about the runtime on an AAA, but only have the one body. When I run my CR2 lights this weekend, I'll run the Eiger on an alkaline as well.:grin2:

 

[scout24]

66hrs, took it about 5 minutes ago. No flickering yet, but we're getting pretty close to Titan levels... Keep in mind, Quark AA is on moonlight mode.:)

 

[MKLight]

Thank you very much for answering my question.

Would you happen to know which light will run the longest between the two? To narrow it down, I would be referring to the Peak Eiger power level that is equivalent to the 3LED Matterhorn... So between the two, which one will give my AAA cell the best run for it's money?

I would agree with Dances below. The 3LED was meant to be more of a powerhouse back in the day when power LEDs were still in the Luxeon 1 stage and needed to be powered by more voltage. The 1LED Matty would probably last just as long, if not longer than the XPG...just an assumption on my part, though. From a conversation with Curt several years ago, he said the 1LED on a low power would run forever (or a very long time, like Scout is amazingly showing us...great work! :) ).

The Matterhorn-ish light I tested had a very long tapering "tail" which I guess could be useful in some situations. Usually the runtime spec for good lights is from the time you turn on the light, until its brightness reaches 50% of when it started. That was fairly sensible for incandescent lights since they shifted towards orange as they got dimmer, and once it got past 50% most of the energy was going into the infrared where it was invisible. With leds, the light stays useful at ridicuously low levels, like 1% and even lower, and you can run a light for an awfully long time at 1%.

+1

Do you think the 3LED Matterhorn will have equivalent, if not the same runtime as the single LED being tested above? The light being produced after 48hrs from the Matterhorn is mind-blowing truthfully, and I am on the verge of buying the 3LED, but I want to get some questions answered first before jumping the gun. Bumping back to a question I had above, if you were to guess which light will outlast one another.... a level 1 Peak Eiger, or the Snow White Peak Matterhorn (1 LED), which will be your pick/guess?

The 3LED Matty will have less runtime than the single LED Matty being tested above. I'm not sure on the specifics, but there is less power consumption coming from the single LED, versus the 3LED. Tough to tell if the Eiger or single LED Matty would win in runtime...they would be very close...I think Dances is probably correct.

I can recall no direct output comparison between the #1 Eiger and the 1/3 LED Matterhorn (at it's lowest drive level). But for maximum useful runtime, the Eiger should win hands down because of the efficiency of the XPG. Quite simply, the Eiger produces far more light at a given power level than the Matty, and so it can be expected to produce useful light for a longer period.

These real world runtime tests are always fascinating and always raise the question - how much light do you need or want?

Definitely! Dances with Flashlight is the expert of Peaks! I think he has at least one of each model! (I was looking for the bow down emoticon, but it doesn't look like it exists...so...:twothumbs

Take care,
MK

 

[CaNo]

I can recall no direct output comparison between the #1 Eiger and the 1/3 LED Matterhorn (at it's lowest drive level). But for maximum useful runtime, the Eiger should win hands down because of the efficiency of the XPG. Quite simply, the Eiger produces far more light at a given power level than the Matty, and so it can be expected to produce useful light for a longer period.

These real world runtime tests are always fascinating and always raise the question - how much light do you need or want?

Would the Peak Eiger Level 1 10440 take a AAA Cell without problems?

CaNo- I am also curious about the runtime on an AAA, but only have the one body. When I run my CR2 lights this weekend, I'll run the Eiger on an alkaline as well.:grin2:

I don't think I even have to say how curious I am to find out the result of that runtime test lol Expect me to track the progress on that test every step of the way! :twothumbs What an excellent idea to do these tests by the way. Very entertaining Scout! :thumbsup:

I would agree with Dances below. The 3LED was meant to be more of a powerhouse back in the day when power LEDs were still in the Luxeon 1 stage and needed to be powered by more voltage. The 1LED Matty would probably last just as long, if not longer than the XPG...just an assumption on my part, though. From a conversation with Curt several years ago, he said the 1LED on a low power would run forever (or a very long time, like Scout is amazingly showing us...great work! :) ).

Now another factor got put into play since Dances With Flashlights above said that the XP-G (In the Eigers) would out perform the dated Peak lights (Matterhorns) in runtime and brightness... This has got me wondering now... What if Fenix came out with an XP-G version of the E01... would that outlast the current E01?

The 3LED Matty will have less runtime than the single LED Matty being tested above. I'm not sure on the specifics, but there is less power consumption coming from the single LED, versus the 2LED. Tough to tell if the Eiger or single LED Matty would win in rutime...they would be very close...I think Dances is probably correct.

Hmmm... Dances With Flashlights... would you mind running a runtime test on these 2 lights since you (probably, assuming from MK's comment) have both of them? *Crosses fingers*

 

[MKLight]

Hmmm... Dances With Flashlights... would you mind running a runtime test on these 2 lights since you (probably, assuming from MK's comment) have both of them? *Crosses fingers*

X2!!! :D

 

[scout24]

Hi all! The following picture was taken at work at 3:15pm, right before I left. EO1 appeared to have a little bit left, but when I got home it was down below Titan level. Still glowing, but done for my purposes. Figure 69hrs.Matterhorn is still going, brighter than the Titan, so on it goes. :thumbsup: The Eiger head that I have is a power level one, and is designed to run on the 3.7v 10180 battery, so I assume a 10440 won't be a problem, same voltage, just more capacity. More on the Matty later! And then there was one...;)

 

[jabe1]

the Eiger will also run on a single alkaline, it just matters which batt. tube you use!
I think the Eiger will win.

 

[Curt R]

Some basic Matt and Eiger info:

The electronics in the Eiger is about 15 to 20% more efficient than that of the the Matterhorn electronics.
The single Dash 29 Snow White LED in the Matty in HP drive level had a current input of 32 to 35 mA at
start with a 1.5 volt battery. We can get the same Candela output with the Cree XPG-R5 with a drive
current of 20 mA. That would be a drive level of about #0.5.

The Eiger is offered in power levels from #1 through #8, with #8 and a 10440 Lithium-Ion 3.6 volt battery
driving the LED at just over 1,000 mA. That gives the light over 700 Candela output and about 300 Lumens
OTF. Short time only as it does get HOT rather quickly! The single and triple Matts are discontinued
except for UV and IR applications.

The Eigers can be had in Aluminum, Brass, Stainless Steel and Titanium, (Tiger), in up to four battery
compartment styles including a 2 x AAA and an optional tail mounted push button switch. Different battery
compartments can hold 10180, 10280 and 10440 (AAA) battery sizes. And they can all be mixed and matched,
(Brass head with Aluminum body and Brass switch). And I forgot to mention wide angle, medium angle
and narrow angle beam patterns.

Over a thousand different options using a White LED only. Anyone care for a complete collection? :broke:

Curt

 

[MKLight]

Thanks, Curt! :thumbsup:

I thought the Eiger's were also offered in multiple colors...I'll change my post above.

Take care,
MK


EDIT: Per Dances Post in #31 - both Matty's and Eiger's are offered in multiple colors. :twothumbs

 

[Dances with Flashlight]

I'd be happy to do some runtimes on these Mattys... but don't have any 1 led Matty's left, and my 3 led Matty's are UP rated (substantially higher in output than the HP or XLR). Sorry.

Curt just confirmed that the more efficient circuit and emitters in the Eiger can produce equivalent light at lower power levels than with the earlier Matterhorns - hence longer runtime. Call me a blind old geezer, but longer runtime doesn't mean all that much to me unless it's coupled with output sufficient for my needs... and I like it Eiger BRIGHT!

NiMN's, LiIon's, etc., have power curves that end rather steeply and abruptly compared to the curve of an alkaline battery with a long tail. With a finite battery capacity, there is only so much total output possible over time, and flashaholics today can choose the particular combination of illumination and runtime they prefer, although always subject to the limit of battery capacity. We've never had it so good.

Scout24's generous and time-consuming efforts in starting and maintaining this test highlight the extreme runtimes that are possible with clever engineering and component selection. Quite frankly, if I were trapped spelunking in a cave with no hope of escape I suppose I'd want a light to last (at any level at all) until my last breath. But I can't see dim light as I once could and even the AAA Arc's I long thought perfect produce too little light to meet my normal needs now. It is for these reasons that I don't have a #1 Eiger, although if I did I'd just stoke it with a 10440, or slap it onto a 2XAAA Penlight body, so I could see.

MKLight - Looks like Curt was just counting white LED options. Eigers ARE available with colored LED's.

 

[CaNo]

The Eiger head that I have is a power level one, and is designed to run on the 3.7v 10180 battery, so I assume a 10440 won't be a problem, same voltage, just more capacity. More on the Matty later! And then there was one...;)

the Eiger will also run on a single alkaline, it just matters which batt. tube you use!
I think the Eiger will win.

So is the 10440 the best tube size to use to run normal AAA cells?

Some basic Matt and Eiger info:

The electronics in the Eiger is about 15 to 20% more efficient than that of the the Matterhorn electronics.
The single Dash 29 Snow White LED in the Matty in HP drive level had a current input of 32 to 35 mA at
start with a 1.5 volt battery. We can get the same Candela output with the Cree XPG-R5 with a drive
current of 20 mA. That would be a drive level of about #0.5.

The Eiger is offered in power levels from #1 through #8, with #8 and a 10440 Lithium-Ion 3.6 volt battery
driving the LED at just over 1,000 mA. That gives the light over 700 Candela output and about 300 Lumens
OTF. Short time only as it does get HOT rather quickly! The single and triple Matts are discontinued
except for UV and IR applications.

The Eigers can be had in Aluminum, Brass, Stainless Steel and Titanium, (Tiger), in up to four battery
compartment styles including a 2 x AAA and an optional tail mounted push button switch. Different battery
compartments can hold 10180, 10280 and 10440 (AAA) battery sizes. And they can all be mixed and matched,
(Brass head with Aluminum body and Brass switch). And I forgot to mention wide angle, medium angle
and narrow angle beam patterns.

Over a thousand different options using a White LED only. Anyone care for a complete collection? :broke:

Curt

Thank you Curt for narrowing that decision down for me! lol Eiger it is! :twothumbs

 

[CaNo]

I'd be happy to do some runtimes on these Mattys... but don't have any 1 led Matty's left, and my 3 led Matty's are UP rated (substantially higher in output than the HP or XLR). Sorry.

Curt just confirmed that the more efficient circuit and emitters in the Eiger can produce equivalent light at lower power levels than with the earlier Matterhorns - hence longer runtime. Call me a blind old geezer, but longer runtime doesn't mean all that much to me unless it's coupled with output sufficient for my needs... and I like it Eiger BRIGHT!

NiMN's, LiIon's, etc., have power curves that end rather steeply and abruptly compared to the curve of an alkaline battery with a long tail. With a finite battery capacity, there is only so much total output possible over time, and flashaholics today can choose the particular combination of illumination and runtime they prefer, although always subject to the limit of battery capacity. We've never had it so good.

Scout24's generous and time-consuming efforts in starting and maintaining this test highlight the extreme runtimes that are possible with clever engineering and component selection. Quite frankly, if I were trapped spelunking in a cave with no hope of escape I suppose I'd want a light to last (at any level at all) until my last breath. But I can't see dim light as I once could and even the AAA Arc's I long thought perfect produce too little light to meet my normal needs now. It is for these reasons that I don't have a #1 Eiger, although if I did I'd just stoke it with a 10440, or slap it onto a 2XAAA Penlight body, so I could see.

MKLight - Looks like Curt was just counting white LED options. Eigers ARE available with colored LED's.

Ah well its the thought that counts! :nana:

The Eiger#1 on AAA would produce how many lumens as compared to a 10440 cell? The way they have everything laid out on the Peak site is rather confusing for me as I do not know what FC means...

Are all Peak lights waterproof or dunkable?

 

[Dances with Flashlight]

The Eiger#1 on AAA would produce how many lumens as compared to a 10440 cell? Are all Peak lights waterproof or dunkable?

Curt posted these numbers some time ago for the Eiger #1 (with the earlier, much less efficient Rebel 0800): Alkaline about 6 lumens; LiIOn about 12 lumens. The LiIon 10440 battery is AAA sized so only the AAA body will accept a 10440. However, there are shorter interchangeable bodies that will take LiIon 10180 (don't like) or 10280 (like) batteries. Dunkable - Yes. Waterproof - No.

This is the CANDLEPOWER Forums - not the Lumen Forums. (Always wanted to say that.) Lumens express total light output but don't tell you how dispersed or concentrated the beam is or how far it will shine. Candlepower - cp (or foot candles - fc) and Lux, measure the amount of light hitting an object one foot or one meter away, but not the total amount of light produced. There is no accepted conversion factor between these two measuring systems. Lumens have commonly been used for higher output lights whereas cp or lux have more often been used for less powerful lights.

 

[CaNo]

Curt posted these numbers some time ago for the Eiger #1 (with the earlier, much less efficient Rebel 0800): Alkaline about 6 lumens; LiIOn about 12 lumens. The LiIon 10440 battery is AAA sized so only the AAA body will accept a 10440. However, there are shorter interchangeable bodies that will take LiIon 10180 (don't like) or 10280 (like) batteries. Dunkable - Yes. Waterproof - No.

This is the CANDLEPOWER Forums - not the Lumen Forums. (Always wanted to say that.) Lumens express total light output but don't tell you how dispersed or concentrated the beam is or how far it will shine. Candlepower - cp (or foot candles - fc) and Lux, measure the amount of light hitting an object one foot or one meter away, but not the total amount of light produced. There is no accepted conversion factor between these two measuring systems. Lumens have commonly been used for higher output lights whereas cp or lux have more often been used for less powerful lights.

Wow. Thank you very much for that explanation. Now everything is starting to make sense. So the FC is the foot candles on their site, and the L is lumens... but no run times specified. Gotcha. It would have been nice to have the data all there though so it is easier to make a decision upon purchasing from the Peak site. Let alone a key stating what the abbreviations stand for...:whistle:

You know I am not going to lie, I stare at that Peak check out page every night just itching to press the check out button... the meter is filling up though... almost 100% :)

 

[red02]

There is no accepted conversion factor between these two measuring systems.

why not? http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2197375&postcount=5
1 ftc = 10.7 lux

Edit: bad unit conversion on my part

 

[BarryG]

I was on here looking for runtimes on the Eigers as well and someone pointed me to this link.

http://www.em-mgt.com/LED/Product Line Eiger Nov 09.pdf

Hope it helps.

 

[scout24]

Okay all, finally done last night... The EO1 finally got dimmer than the Titan, so I shut it off and ate dinner. Afterwards, I opened it up to discard the cell, and found it had bulged slightly, just enough so it would not "tailstand" on the negative end. (The battery, not the light...) Even though the Matterhorn was still brighter than the Titan, I stopped it there out of concern for the battery, although it was fine when I opened the light up. Matty rules! I must thank Curt for posting and all of you for following this, it was not very scientific... no graphs or multimeter readings, just real world running down to the levels that I consider minimally useful. Starting tomorrow morning, I will start a new thread with the CR2 lights that I own, as well as the Peak Eiger AAA, for those who are interested. Same as this one, all on low if multilevel, down to Titan low level. i will bring my multimeter home from work this time, so look for some voltage readings. I can't wait to see the Eiger runtimes given the lower drive levels...

 

[nanomu]

We can get the same Candela output with the Cree XPG-R5 with a drive current of 20 mA. That would be a drive level of about #0.5.

Over a thousand different options using a White LED only. Anyone care for a complete collection? :broke:

Sounds about right. I've measured my Eiger #1 as drawing around 45mA. On a 10180 (90mAh), I'm guessing a bit under 2 hours of useful runtime. AAA (800mAh on my NiMH) would be "a bit" more.

As for colours, I have one in neutral. The emitter appears to be a XPG-R4 (the 4000K version of the R5), but I could be wrong.

The real problem, of course, is deciding between brass and SS and power level. I count over 800(!) different configurations with just white LEDs, not including head-body mix and match. (8 levels, 3 beams, 3 metals, 4 battery sizes, 3 tail options)

 

[Curt R]

(This has nothing to do with this great run time test).

We do get just a bit carried away with choices. The LEO line in the NP series has 4 different heads in each
of two metals; Aluminum and Stainless Steel. The FR series has 10 different heads all in Aluminum.
Those heads can match up with any of four different bodies that can handle different battery types and
numbers of batteries. There are even different tail switches including a multiple level computer controlled
tail switch. All of that is also interchangeable with each other with the power outputs ranging from 300 to
1200 Lumens.

(And now back to the original program in progress). :popcorn:

Curt