IMR vs LiCo @ 5A

Candle Power Forums

Help Support Candle Power:

jasonck08

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
1,516
City & State/Province
Redding, CA
So I just got my first set of IMR cells and so far, I am not impressed. :o

It seems like this forum loves IMR cells but you hardly see any data comparisons vs LiCo. The following tests were done on a CBA III. Starting voltage was 4.20v. Ending voltage for the AW LiCo and Sanyo LiCo are 2.8v. Ending voltage for the Panasonic LiCo is 2.5v as well as the AW 18650 IMR. All tests were done with cells that had 1-3 cycles on them.

See below for more accurate discharge tests.
 
Last edited:
Nice graph you put together. good thing it wasn't me testing it otherwise those batteries would have been toast. :tinfoil:

But seriously, I have no idea why those AW cells have a staggering line pattern like that; that's weird.
 
Does anyone know what to think about the very strange jagged IMR discharge pattern?

You got a really bad quality cell. I recommend not using it.

IMR cells use LiMn2O4 as the cathode material instead of the more common LiCoO2. LiMn2O4 is also commonly referred to as LMO or "spinel".

In as much as you can generalize about lithium-ion chemistries, here are a few things to know about cells made with LiMn2O4:

1. LiMn2O4 has a slightly lower capacity and has historically had less cycle life than LiCoO2. This is why LiCoO2 has become the dominate cathode chemistry, despite it being more expensive.

2. You can make a higher power cell with LiMn2O4 because the diffusion rate of lithium ions in that material is higher than in LiCoO2.

3. LiMn2O4 tends to be safer than LiCoO2 because it cannot be "overcharged". Now, let me explain this a bit. You can certainly damage a IMR cell by charging at too high of a current and/or voltage, so don't try it. The difference is that you cannot put excess capacity into the cell because at full state of charge, all of the lithium is extracted from the LiMn2O4 (so when the cell is fully charged (~4.2V), the cathode is essentially MnO2). In this respect, IMR cells are similar to cells that use lithium iron phosphate as the cathode. With an LiCoO2 cathode, only half of the lithium is extracted at full state of charge, and if the cell is charged to a higher voltage, more lithium is extracted from the cathode, leading to all sorts of safety problems.

Given the better high power (high drain) and safety characteristics, IMR cells are usually designed for high power applications where the cell is likely going to be exposed to high current drains and higher temperatures.

So, the reason that many people like IMR cells is that they are generally higher power and safer than other lithium-ion cells that charge to 4.2V.

This does not mean that all IMR cells are high power and/or safe. You can certainly build a low power cell with LiMn2O4, but there are other, better cathode materials to choose from. You can also build a crappy, low quality IMR cell that will catch on fire.

Just remember that "IMR" simply denotes the chemistry of the cell. Just like you can have NiMH cells with various performance characteristics from different manufacturers, the same is true for IMR cells.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Battery Guy
 
Last edited:
Battery Guy.

Thanks for the info. I'll test out a 18500 IMR cell next and compare it. Maybe this 18650 was a dud.

IMR's should hold a higher voltage throughout the discharge curve when compared to LiCo cells of the same size... correct?
 
Seems like a contact problem with the IMR cell. Can you repeat the test?

From my experience 18650 IMR cell is good only for high currents like >6A. For 6A and lower currents good quality LiCoO2 cells are much better.
 
Seems like a contact problem with the IMR cell. Can you repeat the test?

I'm with jirik on this one. Usually when you get a zig zag like that during discharge, it means you have a bad connection somewhere in the circuit loop.

Dave
 
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change.
I'm with jirik on this one. Usually when you get a zig zag like that during discharge, it means you have a bad connection somewhere in the circuit loop.

Dave

Could be. I thought the discharge test looked pretty strange. Doing a second test now... looks a little more normal so far. Got it clamped down very tight this time.
 
Yeah, I'm betting it'll do better this time. :)

I hate to bring this up, but your graph exceeds the size permitted on CPF. Better you hear it from me, I guess. :candle:

Dave
 
IMR_vs_LiCo_18650.png


It definitely did better then last time, but had some strange behavior right near the end there...

Does anyone else have any IMR 18650's from AW that you can test and compare to other LiCo cells? I don't know if my cell is a dud or what. I guess I expected better from an IMR.
 
Hello Jasonck08,

Keep an eye on that cell. I still don't like they way it is behaving. If there is internal damage the cell will heat up. Often this heating comes from a spot rather than the whole cell heating up like a NiMh cell at the end of a charge. It starts in one place, then spreads out.

While not usual, there are occasions where a new cell will malfunction.

Right now, I would place it in the crap pile. You may want to contact AW and see what he has to offer.

Tom
 
Thanks for the advice Tom.

Hoping you or someone else can post some comparisions between a good IMR 18650 and some LiCo 18650's.
 
Well I *think* i may have found the problem as to why there was some jaggedness on my first two posts.... The plug from my CBA was probably only plugged in about 75% as tight as it could have been.

Here is another test @ 5A: Didn't change that much, except for near the end. Overall voltage was about .07v higher this time. Also, the total resistance of the wires @ 5A is only about .07v. Not too bad.

IMR_vs_LiCo_18650_test3.png


From the tests, the IMR beats out ever cell for the first 300mA or so then the Sanyo 2600 LiCo takes the lead...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top