New Imedion 2400mah LSD AA Batteries

[SilverFox]

Hello CyberCT,

You can pick up a calibrated Cadex C7400 analyzer and achieve the results you are looking for. The run a little more than $2000 + a little more for the adapters and keep in mind that at a minimum you should have the calibration checked yearly.

Tom

 

[CyberCT]

I had to chuckle of your joke.

So there are four independant bays on this charger, each with a margin of error when detecting & displaying the MAH values of each battery. It's a shame there is not one bay where four batteries can be loaded. Hence they would all work off the same hardware or electronics and give results that show the correct real variance in MAH between the four batteries. I'm talking about break-in mode btw.

 

[shadowjk]

If there was one bay with one channel, they'd be treated as a single battery, and you'd only get a single mAh value..

 

[CyberCT]

If there was one bay with one channel, they'd be treated as a single battery, and you'd only get a single mAh value..

What I'm saying is if all four bays worked off the same exact electronics, it would be apples to apples because that one piece of electronics is rating all four batteries. Hence there would be no variations from bay to bay. You know what I mean.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

What I'm saying is if all four bays worked off the same exact electronics, it would be apples to apples because that one piece of electronics is rating all four batteries. Hence there would be no variations from bay to bay. You know what I mean.

There will always be variations. If you are charging more than one cell the heating of adjacent cells affect each other and contacts and board traces and wiring internally can differ. With any electronics you have to decide what is acceptable variance and that is usually tied to the cost.

 

[menoceros]

This is what I was talking about when I mentioned the varience possible because of normal errors. This is not a piece of test equipment. You can't get that for $70. Like Silverfox said, that would cost thousands of dollars and need to be calibrated at least annually. This charger will tell you if yo have a cell that is lower than your others. What we've been discussing is the variety of readings the members have been seeing which are all within the realm of acceptable errors. Having a 2400 cell read 2340 and another read 2295 is not a reason to throw the low cell away. The varience we've been seeing is well within 2-5%. 2% on a 2400 cell is almost 50 mah. so if your cells are all within 30-50 mah; it doesn't matter unless they are all way down at 2000 or something.

You can always buy the ZTS MBT1 tester to check all your cells. It just costs as much as the 9000 charger.

 

[CyberCT]

Hmm well I'm thinking the best thing I'm probably going to do is first do a "break-in" of all my eneloops (32) and Imedions (8). So far I have been recording the Mah of each battery. 24 eneloops are done, 4 are in the C9000 with one more day to go, and 4 more still need the "break-in." THen I will do the same with my Imedions.

Then I'm going to open MS Excel and do some statistical analysis of the batteries charged from each of the four bays. With 40 batteries tested, I guess it would be a good enough random sample to determine, say, Bay 2 is 100%, bay 1 is 96%, bay 3, ... and so on. Then use that as a basis.

 

[CyberCT]

Just an update to my TK41 runtimes. I have 8 Maha Imedion 2400 MAH batteries and 32 Sanyo Eneloops. I also have the Maha MC-9000 charger, which shows the MAH rating of each battery after a "break-in" test. I did this same test with my Imedions and Eneloops. All of which have been cycled over 10 times since purchase before the break-in. I chose the best eneloops of the bunch, the top performing eight that had over 2,000 MAH read from that charger. And the only eight Imedions, which 6 out of 8 came out over 2,300 MAH but under 2,400 MAH. I ran the TK41 on turbo mode, under luke warm water, more toward the cool side, to keep the light cool under turbo. In air, the TK41 gets very hot if left on turbo. With my water test, the TK41 head wasn't hot at all, just luke warm like the water temp. Once the light dropped down to high from turbo, I recorded the time:

Eneloops: 1:31 = 91 minutes
Imedions: 1:43 = 103 minutes

The eight Eneloops averaged 2,015.6 MAH each and the eight Imedions averaged 2,305.4 MAH each.

So for battery capacity, the Eneloops were 87.4% the capacity of the Imedions. The inverse: the Imedions were 114.4% the capacity of the Eneloops.
For runtimes, the Eneloops were 88.3% the runtime of the Imedions. The inverse: the Imedions were 113.2% the runtime of the Eneloops.

So does this mean the Eneloops are slightly more efficient than the Imedions? Either way, about a month ago I charged all my batteries and now when I put them in my Maha 8-bay chargers (2), all the batteries showed still having 3/3 charge levels.

 

[Mikl1984]

So does this mean the Eneloops are slightly more efficient than the Imedions?

It's named Wh, not efficiency .
Eneloop are able to give you more V under the same load
Just imagine square under discharging curves http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...AA-Batteries&p=3508871&viewfull=1#post3508871

 

[Battery Guy]

A comparison between the Imedion 2400 and Eneloop AA can be found in this thread.

The Imedion 2400 has a higher internal resistance and is indeed less efficient than the Eneloop.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

It would be interesting to see capacity comparisons over time (self discharge) of eneloop vs Imedion 2400s. If Eneloops discharged 15% over a year they would go from ~2000 to 1700mah. For Imedions to go to below 1700mah it would take over a 41% discharge approximately.

 

[bbb74]

It would be interesting to see capacity comparisons over time (self discharge) of eneloop vs Imedion 2400s. If Eneloops discharged 15% over a year they would go from ~2000 to 1700mah. For Imedions to go to below 1700mah it would take over a 41% discharge approximately.

There's already been some like that. They were pretty close from memory, nothing like the difference required for eneloops to "catch up". Eneloops have the advantage in high current applications, lower variability, and allegedly will last longer but haven't seen an actual test to prove that so don't know if its really true or not.

My test has eneloop and imedion (and vapex and powerex) lsd results after one month here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317990-AA-NiMh-Shootout!!&p=3721820#post3721820

In the process of "using" them a fair bit to see how they go when they're not brand new, because they're only brand new once.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

There's already been some like that. They were pretty close from memory, nothing like the difference required for eneloops to "catch up". Eneloops have the advantage in high current applications, lower variability, and allegedly will last longer but haven't seen an actual test to prove that so don't know if its really true or not.

My test has eneloop and imedion (and vapex and powerex) lsd results after one month here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317990-AA-NiMh-Shootout!!&p=3721820#post3721820

In the process of "using" them a fair bit to see how they go when they're not brand new, because they're only brand new once.

A month isn't much of a test for LSD cell self discharge as most are rated at 85% capacity after a year that means an average of less than 1.5% a month. For the most part it would have to be a year or 2-3 to start making a difference in the 40% self discharge range and I doubt anyone has the patience for that type of test nor waiting that long for results.

 

[bbb74]

A month isn't much of a test for LSD cell self discharge as most are rated at 85% capacity after a year that means an average of less than 1.5% a month. For the most part it would have to be a year or 2-3 to start making a difference in the 40% self discharge range and I doubt anyone has the patience for that type of test nor waiting that long for results.

Yes it'd probably have to be a few years - if at all. But if you have nimh cells stored that long, you have to ask why? Use lithiums. Its prob better for the health of nimh's to cycle them from time to time as well so leaving them for years you'd have to think about using lithiums instead.

I will be doing a 3 month test, once I get the current stage over and done with.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Yes it'd probably have to be a few years - if at all. But if you have nimh cells stored that long, you have to ask why? Use lithiums. Its prob better for the health of nimh's to cycle them from time to time as well so leaving them for years you'd have to think about using lithiums instead.

I will be doing a 3 month test, once I get the current stage over and done with.

I don't think the verdict is out on storing nimh for years before charging and using them. I have had LSD nimh stored for several years before I used them even before recharging 70-80% capacity is useful vs throwing away up to $2.50 for a disposable battery. At 70% the 2400s should have about 1680 mah capacity in them which even though it is closer to half the capacity of a lithium primary you can recharge it a few times and pay for two L91s in a pinch. I am thinking that cycling nimh in storage is not quite as much needed as people insist as the capacity may be down a bit but I am thinking if you just normally start using them and recharging them they will straighten out anyway.

 

[CyberCT]

Well I just did a turbo runtime test on my TK45 with the Imedions. Fenix states 2 hours on turbo. I got 1 hour 55 minutes until the light's output was high and wouldn't go into turbo. The TK45 has a "safety" circuit that automatically drops from turbo to high after 15 minutes. I set a timer and after 14:30 I cycled through the modes manually from turbo, low, med, high, and turbo again to reset this circuitry timer. I did it very fast, a fraction of a second from turbo to turbo again. I did this all through my runtime test every 14:30. This would keep the light's output on turbo constantly, minus the fraction of a second each time. I also did this test in slightly cool / luke warm water. Just using this light in the air on turbo constantly makes this light get hot. So I corrected for that with my turbo test. The light was barely warm to the touch on turbo everytime I reset the mode.

I recharged my Imedions on my MH-C800S Eight Cell charger in "soft mode" about 24 hours before I used them in the test. I did the same with my Imedions and Eneloops before my TK41 test.

I'm pretty impressed with the Imedions. I'm also still impressed with the TK45. It's got a nice amount of flood. I found it very usefull snorkeling in freshwater, and also walking the woods. Throw is nice, but I prefer flood, and the TK45 still delivers even though it's over a year old.

 

[bbb74]

I don't think the verdict is out on storing nimh for years before charging and using them. I have had LSD nimh stored for several years before I used them even before recharging 70-80% capacity is useful vs throwing away up to $2.50 for a disposable battery. At 70% the 2400s should have about 1680 mah capacity in them which even though it is closer to half the capacity of a lithium primary you can recharge it a few times and pay for two L91s in a pinch. I am thinking that cycling nimh in storage is not quite as much needed as people insist as the capacity may be down a bit but I am thinking if you just normally start using them and recharging them they will straighten out anyway.

All of that may be true, but my point was just that if you have nimhs sitting in a cupboard for 3 years, then you either bought too many batteries, or should have bought lithiums to sit on the shelf for emergencies instead The lithium primaries are good for 10+ years, I have heard they are actually good for 40 but they don't want to put that on the packet because nobody would believe it. I doubt a nimh will have much charge left after 10+ years.

Well I just did a turbo runtime test on my TK45 with the Imedions. Fenix states 2 hours on turbo. I got 1 hour 55 minutes until the light's output was high and wouldn't go into turbo.

Just to point out, fenix's claims for the tk45 are not ansi standard as they didn't start doing ansi till after the tk45. Great that your result was similar to their claim...and goes to show a slight "gotcha" with ansi runtimes.

 

[CyberCT]

Just to point out, fenix's claims for the tk45 are not ansi standard as they didn't start doing ansi till after the tk45. Great that your result was similar to their claim...and goes to show a slight "gotcha" with ansi runtimes.

Not 100% relavant, but since I did the test I'll post. The top 8 performing eneloops of my 32 eneloops were tested in the TK45 today with the same conditions. The light dropped to high from turbo at 1 hour 40 minutes. So that would mean that runtime was 87% of that of the Imedions. Honestly, if the LSD capability is on par with the Eneloops, I think the Imedion is a superior battery.

 

[bbb74]

Not 100% relavant, but since I did the test I'll post. The top 8 performing eneloops of my 32 eneloops were tested in the TK45 today with the same conditions. The light dropped to high from turbo at 1 hour 40 minutes. So that would mean that runtime was 87% of that of the Imedions. Honestly, if the LSD capability is on par with the Eneloops, I think the Imedion is a superior battery.

Heh, thats cool. If you refer to my testing thread, I tested new eneloops vs imedions in a LD20 torch in turbo (water cooled like you). The eneloops ran for ... wait for it ... 87.58% of the time the imedions did. I was accurate to within about 5 seconds of seeing when it dropped out of regulation cos I was sitting in the dark with it pointed at the ceiling (with the tv on of course ).

 

[CyberCT]

Any updates to the 3 month LSD test on the eneloops and Imedions? And if that test is still going, when will it be complete?