Zebra Light SC52 Not exactly water proof. What gives?

[Etsu]

I initially thought they may have just registered and Bill suspected this to be an attempted attack on Zebralights' reputation.
Seeing as the OP registered in 2008, I don't really know what Bill is implying..??

I think he was just slagging new posters. But based on the OP's detailed post as well as the included photos, I completely disagree that he is clueless.

 

[stevenkelby]

OP has a valid point IMO.

I trust my sc52 to work reliably, but would not trust it to get wet.

I removed my sc52 bezel here, it was not too difficult:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOeUPCeZNyM&feature=youtu.be

 

[holylight]

I will not use a $64 flashlight for a test like that but anyway thanks for the test

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Never mind the "his first post on CPF" comment. What I am implying is that one person's experience with an SC52 does not need to be taken as true for all SC52's, water proofness in this case. Read selfbuilt's post, two posts before mine. Not trying to protect Zebralight's reputation here. I'm speaking as a flashaholic with some experience regarding people jumping to conclusions based on small samples.

Bill

 

[reppans]

While I do like to read other's experience with these water tests, I also won't conduct them with my own lights. If my light ever failed in the field, I always have a back-up or two (that I wouldn't mind actually "needing" once in a while), but an unjustified failure would give me serious pause on another purchase from that manufacturer. Although I do understand the "better test it new, rather than fail in the field" mentality, I find it interesting that you never read about people conducting 2-meter drop tests with new lights - which is probably a much more common scenario than submersion.... guess it boils down to aesthetics and form over function.

The problem with conducting water and drop tests, is that failure becomes a huge cost and hassle for everyone - time and shipping cost for both flashaholic and retailer, and the manufacturer is out money without any way of proving if their product actually failed the advertised spec..... which Selfbuilt has now clarified for the water test (and it makes sense, given the air pressure change that can be created by dropping a hot light into cool water):

..... people read too much into IPX ratings (i,e., the actual standard is not consistent with most people's intuitive understanding of "waterproof"). Only dive-rated lights are guaranteed to operate underwater without issue.

FYI, the ANSI FL-1 standards of "waterproof" and "submersible" are slightly more stringent than the IPX-7 and IPX-8 (upon which they are based), but even they don't cover lights in actual use - only submerged lights in the off state. Unfortunately, all bets are off if you turn the light on while submerged.

From what I've of these water tests conducted on CPF, it now seems that ZL (and other manufacturers) have gratuitously provided many warranty replacements for lights that may have actually met the advertised specs, yet were "abused" by CPF members.

All that said, I'm no ZL fan.

 

[Etsu]

Failing a water-submersion test wouldn't bother me, since there's almost no chance I'd ever drop a flashlight under water, except maybe a puddle for a few seconds. Failing a rain test (like someone mentioned in post #9), is a lot more concerning. I often wash my lights with soap&water under a tap to clean them, so I need them to stand up to that.

 

[Divine_Madcat]

FYI, the ANSI FL-1 standards of "waterproof" and "submersible" are slightly more stringent than the IPX-7 and IPX-8 (upon which they are based), but even they don't cover lights in actual use - only submerged lights in the off state. Unfortunately, all bets are off if you turn the light on while submerged.

Regardless of the above, I suspect your vendor will replace the light for you. But I wouldn't expect a response during a holiday long weekend.

Yes and no...
As taken from Streamlight's ANSI FL-1 slides (here: http://www.streamlight.com/Documents/ansi/ansi-pres.pdf)
" the sample passes the water proof and submersible test if there is no ingress of water in any functional area that contains unprotected electrical components (contacts, batteries, PCB, wires) or light sources. Protection shall provide exclusion of water from the components above"

Be it the light on or off, water entering the lens assembly and being able to reach the light source and its associated PCB would mean that it would NOT pass the FL-1 standard for IP-X7 or 8. Further more, they also note:
"All test samples shall function normally immediately after the test and 30 min after the test." The water ingress demonstrated in the OP would still fail, as it would not work correctly when turned on.

But finally, it is hard to not expect the lights to work underwater, given so many makers advertise the lights working perfectly fine underwater ..
Fenix: http://www.fenixlight.com/Uploads/photo/86201313139AM57402.jpg
Nitecore: http://www.j2ledflashlight.com/nitecore-ec25-20.jpg
Etc...

 

[HotWire]

I bought a cheap "diving" light a couple of years ago to play with in the pool. It leaked the first time I used it! I took it apart, left it in the summer sun for about a week, then buried it in a drawer. Earlier this summer I got it out and lubricated it with stuff I bought at a pool supply store (thick silicone) and it's been 100% waterproof since. No damage from the leaked water. Can't speak for the SC52, though. Don't have one.

 

[BenChiew]

Care to elaborate?

Bill is right. The small samples contained here does not necessary represent the whole population. On the same note, those who reads it here does not necessarily represent the whole ZL buyers population.

ZL will continue to sell by the thousands worldwide and the bulk of their customers don't come to Cpf.

I had 2 failures on different occasions on 2 different ZL when it was left out in the rain. That in itself does not spell confidence for me when I am out in the wild. On both occasions it flickered and then turn off. Not a situation that I want to be caught out when you are miles away from civilization.

 

[Sarlix]

The water ingress demonstrated in the OP would still fail, as it would not work correctly when turned on.

I think Selfbuilt was suggesting that the OP may have been operating the light underwater, which is quite different to just having it turned on.

I had 2 failures on different occasions on 2 different ZL when it was left out in the rain. That in itself does not spell confidence for me when I am out in the wild. On both occasions it flickered and then turn off. Not a situation that I want to be caught out when you are miles away from civilization.

Which is why I will be thoroughly testing mine when it arrives to make sure this doesn't happen, and if it does it can go back! I hate the idea of buying such a nice, and somewhat expensive light, and not being able to use it in outdoor situations (the whole reason I'm buying it)

 

[Vesper]

I agree completely. Why anyone would willfully tolerate a light that clearly cannot meet the specs, I will never understand. If you are afraid to test it, I don't know how you could use it with any confidence. And if you trust only certain brands to hold up, why would you buy anything else? Maybe that is just because I use my lights, a "shelf queen" is an alien concept to me.

Well said Madcat. That is all I have to add.

I have many lights that I know could take hell and back, and others that I know could not, regardless of what their specs say. My SC Zebras have so many up sides that I'm fine with them filling roles that don't involve my next caving expedition. For around the house or around town they are perfection. What we all tolerate or not is pretty subjective.

 

[Sarlix]

^That's funny because Zebra's headlights seem to be quite popular for caving expeditions. In fact I thought this was the kind of thing they were aimed at. I'm pretty confused :thinking:

 

[mhpreston]

Small samples reported objectively and supported by evidence results in trends being identified. ZL may well have a design or quality issue. Lights at this price point should not leak IMHO.

 

[Vesper]

^That's funny because Zebra's headlights seem to be quite popular for caving expeditions. In fact I thought this was the kind of thing they were aimed at. I'm pretty confused :thinking:

I love my Zebralights but anyone relying on them in caves better have a few backups. Around camp they're great.

 

[selfbuilt]

Yes and no...
Be it the light on or off, water entering the lens assembly and being able to reach the light source and its associated PCB would mean that it would NOT pass the FL-1 standard for IP-X7 or 8.

The Streamlight quote you provided about the ANSI FL-1 standard is correct - but your conclusion is not.

The standard makes it clear that the light is only activated AFTER removal from the water. If water enters the light in those areas when it is being tested under the ANSI FL-1 standard (i.e., light is off), then it fails. But if you do the test with the light on or cycling through modes, you have invalidated the conditions of the test - you can draw no conclusion according to ANSI FL-1 standards.

Basically, you (and presumably the OP, from the way he worded his post) are inadvertently applying a much more stringent standard than the ANSI FL-1 test. Although likely unintentional, the fact is that you cannot hold a light to a higher standard than its specs and then complain when it fails.

My point here is not to support or defend any position - it is simply to be clear about what the testing standard requires, so people know what to expect (and consequently, not to expect). I understand why people expect more than what IPX and/or ANSI provide. But pressing an electronic switch that is directly connected to a circuit - while on - is much heavier burden than simply having an inactivated light sitting in water. Only dive-ratings guarantee this.

 

[carrot]

Regardless of specifications, if a light is advertised to have any water resistance at all it should be expected to prevent water ingress or continue to work under most user circumstances in something as shallow as a glass of water or some rain.

I understand what the IPX7 ratings, etc, are on about, but honestly, water resistance like that is pathetic in a style of light that is often expected to see damp conditions from time to time.

 

[Popper252]

Just to clarify, you actually had the lights on and started changing modes while submersed?

I only ask because the IPX-7 and IPX-8 ratings refer to water-immersed lights at specific depths and times, but do NOT cover actual activation or use. For that matter, they technically still allow water ingress, as long as it produces "no harmful effects". It is thus quite possible to pass IPX-8 testing (done with the light off) but have it fail immediately if you press the switch.

For clarity's sake I turned the lights on and then submerged them in a 12 oz cup of tap water. Once they were in there I didn't touch them other than to check for any leaks and to make sure temps were fine.
Also thanks for clarifying on what the ratings actually mean. Great info.

I think Selfbuilt was suggesting that the OP may have been operating the light underwater, which is quite different to just having it turned on.

Which is why I will be thoroughly testing mine when it arrives to make sure this doesn't happen, and if it does it can go back! I hate the idea of buying such a nice, and somewhat expensive light, and not being able to use it in outdoor situations (the whole reason I'm buying it)

I think part of what makes this so frustrating is that it is a 60+ dollar light. If this was a 5 dollar Sipik clone or something of the sorts it'd be understandable. But when you buy the best you certainly expect the best.
And, like you, my main use for this light would be for use in the outdoors. As much as I would like to use it as an around the house light I couldn't justify the price tag on something that I'd only use for a few seconds here and there.

And as for the reply's questioning my credibility and suggesting that I may be a shill... well what can I really say? It's the internet and you have to take everything on a public forum with a grain of salt. If you choose to believe that it's fine. I will say that these are just my personal experiences with this specific light and nothing more than that.

 

[Popper252]

Woops double post.

 

[creyc]

I'm willing to bet a Fenix LD12 will pass your mild water test without fanfare. For a mass produced light I've always been impressed by their quality.

I too live in Florida and you're right about needing good water resistance in this state, a thorough downpour can happen at a moments notice. I've had great luck with my Eagletac D25A in this regard. I carry it daily and its been submerged in pools, puddles, smashed into the dirt, buried at the beach, you name it. Brush it off and it works like new.

After reading other reports of water issues I'd never treat my Zebralights to the same conditions. They're cool lights with an excellent UI, but they just don't seem very heavy duty..

 

[Popper252]

I'm glad that you can corroborate my experiences with Florida rain. It's often torrential and will soak you to the core. Hence the reasoning for my rudimentary testing of all my equipment. If it can't make the grade in a controlled environment then I don't want it.

I considered the D25a but, correct me if I'm wrong, when using a 14500 it is only limited to the high setting and you lose all the other modes. Honestly with all the AA/14500 light research I've done in the past week a lot of specs are pretty much a blur at this point.

I understand that people shouldn't base their ultimate decision on whether to buy a light or not on one opinion but, in this thread alone, there have been several people who have expressed their doubts about their ZL's durability. Nothing anyone here has said has been completely out of line in terms of what they expect out of such a high quality light. If anything the manufacturer should use this info and revise their manufacturing processes to help better their products.
One improvement right off the bat would be to move away from a pressed on bezel and go to a threaded design. Not only will it make the lights being produced more consistent in terms of QC but it'll also aid in user serviceability and maintenance.