Fake Ultrafire
- Thread starter Keron
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Would you mind elaborating a bit on that? Exactly which seller? That seems to make a world of difference on Amazon. Which findings are you referring to? What makes you say it's "real". I'm not trying to be difficult but if you can give some more detailed information perhaps we can share in your joy.
by the bulb head marked with "Ultrafire.net" when open it and the LED inside(if you know how to spot it)
Glad to hear it. From what I understand the fit and finish of a genuine Ultrafire is typically a big step up from most of the clones. Should I assume by your enthusiasm you are finding that to be true? Can you tell me which Amazon seller you ordered from? You can buy the same light from a hundred different sellers on Amazon under the same listing. Most will be selling the fakes so if you would share the seller name that could help more of us find the real thing. If you log in to your Amazon account the specific seller would be listed under your orders as "Sold by...". I see you're in Malaysia and I'm in the US so the seller may be regional but it's worth a shot.
Sadly, I don't think you're joking or being sarcastic. A fake Ultrafire is going to be on par with the quality of a real one. No, not because the fakes are that good. The real ones are that bad.
are you talking about me? c:
LEDninja
Flashlight Enthusiast
I am not sure if one of the Ultrafires is fake. They could both be genuine.
Firstly Ultrafire (and its sister company Trustfire) are more distributers than manufacturers. Just like Sears in North America. Sears sells CFL and LED light bulbs under the Ecosmart brand name. They range from the CREE CR6 made by Cree itself to crap made in god knows where. You can't say dimmable CFLs that don't dim properly is fake Ecosmart while the Cree CR6 that does is genuine Ecosmart. They are both genuine Ecosmarts.
There are 2 types of Duracell LSD batteries -white top and black top. My digital camera objects to the black top ones when there is still lots of charge left. I can still use them in my flashlights for an extended time after my camera rejected them. I can get twice as many shots from the white tops. So do my drug store carry REAL Duracells and FAKE Duracells? No! Duracell do not make their own LSD batteries. They buy them from Sanyo (white top made in Japan) and Panasonic (black top made in China). Since Sanyo and Panasonic recently merged Duracell buys from ONE supplier now.
So the 2 torches can be both genuine Ultrafires but from different factories/manufacturers with different quality standards. (Or lack of.)
-
As to the quality improvements I have a story to tell.
Fenix came out with the first good 1AA flashlight the Fenix L1P. A lot of us had sticker shock coming from $5 plastic budget flashlights. So Fenix came up with a economy model the Civictor. They both use Luxeons and around 30 lumens.
Then a new company took the Civictor body, swapped in an 80 lumen Cree XR-E and a 3 mode controller. WOW! There were 2 group buys. Then the horror stories started. Since there were only 2 group buys (no more as the undersea cable across the Pacific was cut at the time) the number of lights in the CPF community was known. A dedicated member added up the failed ones and 40% had problems.
The company promised to do better. But their new model had similar problems.
Not wanting to lose the lucrative American market the owner took drastic action. He started an independent QC department. Then every light that leaves the factory goes to an outside company for a second QC check. The problems finally stopped.
Now the company is a respected name on CPF. The company? Jetbeam.
Unfortunately Ultrafire/Trustfire sell so many lights through ebay and DX (and clones) there is no pressure to improve.
Firstly Ultrafire (and its sister company Trustfire) are more distributers than manufacturers. Just like Sears in North America. Sears sells CFL and LED light bulbs under the Ecosmart brand name. They range from the CREE CR6 made by Cree itself to crap made in god knows where. You can't say dimmable CFLs that don't dim properly is fake Ecosmart while the Cree CR6 that does is genuine Ecosmart. They are both genuine Ecosmarts.
There are 2 types of Duracell LSD batteries -white top and black top. My digital camera objects to the black top ones when there is still lots of charge left. I can still use them in my flashlights for an extended time after my camera rejected them. I can get twice as many shots from the white tops. So do my drug store carry REAL Duracells and FAKE Duracells? No! Duracell do not make their own LSD batteries. They buy them from Sanyo (white top made in Japan) and Panasonic (black top made in China). Since Sanyo and Panasonic recently merged Duracell buys from ONE supplier now.
So the 2 torches can be both genuine Ultrafires but from different factories/manufacturers with different quality standards. (Or lack of.)
-
As to the quality improvements I have a story to tell.
Fenix came out with the first good 1AA flashlight the Fenix L1P. A lot of us had sticker shock coming from $5 plastic budget flashlights. So Fenix came up with a economy model the Civictor. They both use Luxeons and around 30 lumens.
Then a new company took the Civictor body, swapped in an 80 lumen Cree XR-E and a 3 mode controller. WOW! There were 2 group buys. Then the horror stories started. Since there were only 2 group buys (no more as the undersea cable across the Pacific was cut at the time) the number of lights in the CPF community was known. A dedicated member added up the failed ones and 40% had problems.
The company promised to do better. But their new model had similar problems.
Not wanting to lose the lucrative American market the owner took drastic action. He started an independent QC department. Then every light that leaves the factory goes to an outside company for a second QC check. The problems finally stopped.
Now the company is a respected name on CPF. The company? Jetbeam.
Unfortunately Ultrafire/Trustfire sell so many lights through ebay and DX (and clones) there is no pressure to improve.
I can't speak for all Ultrafire products, real or otherwise. I know there are a lot of bad ones out there. That said, I ordered a WF-501b from Fasttech. I've had it for about a week now. It's not the standard black one you see clones of everywhere. Mine has a single mode switch, an xm-l2 emitter and a smooth reflector and it's an anodized grey color that looks awesome. The lighter color shows off the machining which believe it or not is very well done. The knurling is perfect and it feels great in your hand. The smooth reflector casts a beautiful beam without a single artifact or halo. Just based on exterior aesthetics it's beautiful. It's listed at 500 lumens which seems accurate. Will this outlast a Surefire? I'm highly doubt it...but for $13 I am very happy. This is a really nice light. Had I paid $50 for this particular light I would not be disappointed. I know there is a lot of garbage out there with the Ultrafire name on it. I've owned some of it myself but there are good ones out there too.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have any info to support this statement? I know a lot of people (especially on this site) put Ultrafire and Trustfire in the same category but I've never seen anything that indicated they were truly the same company or even connected in any way. I've seen reviews of several Trustfire lights by people that were very impressed with the build quality of their flashlights. As far as I know the main problem with both brands is they are manufactured in a country with no copyright laws so it's very easy for competitors to build a sub-standard product and put the Ultrafire or Trustfire name on it to gain a bit of market share based on name recognition. On the other hand if what you said about them being more distributors than manufacturers is true, we end up in the same place if they are not overseeing quality control. There are garbage and good quality products out there with the same label on them. In my experience the best shot at getting a good product with either name is by researching the seller. I have several Trustfire protected 18650's that serve me well but I'm picky about who I buy them from. My first battery/charger purchase was labeled Ultrafire and I'm lucky I didn't burn my house down. That's when I realized I needed to do more research.
With regards to lumen output, Ultrafire (and most brands actually) lack the proper equipment to measure lumen output where it counts; out the front. What they measure is emitter lumens before the bezel and everything that goes with it is attached. Emitter lumens are always higher than out the front. On top of that, not only is the human eye a **** poor indicator of actual lumen output. It can be tricked if a light has concentrated output in the center of the beam, at the cost of sidespill.
A good rule of thumb is to take the advertised output number, and divide that by 1/3 (sometimes by as much as 1/2) in order to get a realistic general number of what your light is actually putting out. You're getting closer to 335 lumens with your Ultrafire. Hopefully it'll last you more than a few months at most. Honestly, that's optimistic for many Ultrafire lights.
LEDninja
Flashlight Enthusiast
There was a thread announcing Ultrafire bought Trustfire or Trustfire bought Ultrafire. Can't find it again.
Ultrafire and Trustfire do not make their own batteries. They do not have the chemical knowhow. (Sony recalled 5 years worth of laptop batteries and Sony had much better QC than Ultrafire or Trustfire. The Boeing Dreamliner was grounded for 3 months earlier this year due to battery fires despite tens of thousands of engineers at Boeing, FAA, the Japanese battery manufacturer and the French controller company doing their best to ensure safety.) 18650 batteries are made by companies like Sony, Panasonic or LG and everybody else just put their wrappers on them.
The people who package batteries for Ultrafire/Trustfire sometimes use recycled cells:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316888-Fake-Ultrafire-18650-battery-warning
They or other suppliers sometimes use high end batteries:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...3-An-Unusually-long-lasting-Ultrafire-battery
Maglite one of the biggest flashlight manufacturers can fit their whole lineup on one page.
If Ultrafire/Trustfire make their own flashlights they would not need the huge number of models they have. They would have made a lot more money reducing the number of models, then using the economies of scale to cut costs and increase profits. (One of the better manufacturers Favourlight*** has a minimum order of 100,000. Add up ebay, Amazon and DX and no SINGLE MODEL of Ultrafire/Trustfire adds up to that many. (1 flashlight, car, appliance, computer going down an assembly line 1 minute per item, 8 hour shift, 5 days a week for a year adds up to 100,000.))
If you look hard enough practically every Ultrafire/Trustfire light has an identical model sold by another X-fire company. That shows whoever makes the lights for Ultrafire/Trustfire sell to these other companies as well as Ultrafire/Trustfire. Or Ultrafire/Trustfire does not make them.
*** Never heard of Favourlight? They are sold by Energizer, Terralux, Costco etc. under the retailers brand name.
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thedoc007
Flashlight Enthusiast
You mean MULTIPLY by 2/3 or 1/2 - if you divide by a fraction the number is larger than when you started, not smaller. Dividing by 1/3 would mean the actual output is 1500 lumens.
I also think you are being a little too negative - as I said in an earlier post, it is possible to get a good one, just by luck. My problem with Ultrafire is that you just don't know when you purchase whether or not you will get what you ordered, their quality control seems to be fairly poor, no argument there. But IF you do get a decent one, there is no reason why it won't last a good long while...in fact some posters have already had just that experience. I avoid them just because I'm not willing to play the lottery - but if someone does win it, they should be congratulated, not told their luck is an illusion.
I hope you continue to enjoy your light J-Dub!
Thanks doc. Only time will tell, but so far so good. I wouldn't play the Ultrafire lottery if I was going into battle...but I'm not. I'm mostly playing with my lights in my back yard and amusing my kids. I don't have the budget for lights of the quality most people on this forum are looking for. That's why I spend most of my time here in the Budget Lights area. For now I'm very happy with my light. If it breaks in a month I've still had a lot of fun, learned more about this hobby and I'm only out $13.
Sorry, meant to post "subtract by" instead of "divide."
Also, I can't agree I'm being too negative. Tons of members on CPF who have owned Ultrafire products. Not just myself. Negative reviews across the board. Once again, in my case it was mainly Ultrafire cells not being compatible with an Ultrafire charger designed specifically to charge up those type of and size cells. Honestly, have you ever heard of a company putting out two products meant to work with each other; but didn't? I never have. That's the biggest selling point in buying (supposedly) OEM products. Guaranteed compatibility. Not with Ultrafire.
Also, you shouldn't have to rely on something as horribly fickle as Lady Luck to get you a good flashlight at a rather low price. Buy a Solarforce model. No need to rely on luck one bit. Hell, if someone puts down $1,000 on "00" at a roulette game and it hits, yeah; I'll congratulate them.
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Rosoku Chikara
Enlightened
I am a big fan of "budget" lights. (More accurately, I am a big fan of "budget" everything. While "budget" is very difficult to define, to me, it seems to be about getting better value for your money, and also enjoying the "search" for lower cost, yet reliable, solutions. Anyone can throw money at a problem to solve it.)
But, I have always had considerable resistance to purchasing (testing) any of the various "Fire" brands.
Remember, there really is a "UranusFire" out there. (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...9-Worst-Brand-Model-Name-For-Flashlight/page5)
As a matter of fact, there is so much "Fire" stuff out there, and it varies so much, it seems to me that you can never know what you are getting (in advance), no matter how many times you test purchase it.
Also, when I first started getting interested in budget LED flashlights, I found this "official" Ultrafire website to be very entertaining:
QUOTE
We are the UltraFire official Web Shop.(180 days warranty)
UltraFire manufactures illumination tools that are powerful, compact, rugged and reliable. When you own a UltraFire flashlight, you own the best.
UNQUOTE
At the top of that page, they offer the following warning (- IMPORTANT - "Beware of fake products") which links to this page:
QUOTE
BAD LIST WEBSITE
"Important-Beware of fake products"
We are the manufacture of ULTRAFIRE product. We have trade mark of "UltraFire".
Now, many fake UltraFire product in the market happen. Please take caution.
All the UltraFire fake product is no quality assurance, please stop to purchase.
Fake UltraFire Product WebSite List:
www.amazon.com
www.ultrafire.jp
www.ultrafire.pt
www.dealextreme.com
www.lightmalls.com
www.alldaymall.com
www.dinodirect.com
www.ultrafire.com.cn
www.trademe.co.nz
www.aliexpress.com
www.gadgettown.com
www.chinabuye.com
www.banggood.com
www.mercadolibre.com.ar
www.kaidomain.com
www.lightinthebox.com
www.miniinthebox.com
UNQUOTE
So, according to the "official Ultrafire website," if you purchase from any of the above websites, you are getting a "fake." Who knows? Generally speaking, I prefer to stay away from any low cost light that has "Fire" in its name.
But, I have always had considerable resistance to purchasing (testing) any of the various "Fire" brands.
Remember, there really is a "UranusFire" out there. (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...9-Worst-Brand-Model-Name-For-Flashlight/page5)
As a matter of fact, there is so much "Fire" stuff out there, and it varies so much, it seems to me that you can never know what you are getting (in advance), no matter how many times you test purchase it.
Also, when I first started getting interested in budget LED flashlights, I found this "official" Ultrafire website to be very entertaining:
QUOTE
We are the UltraFire official Web Shop.(180 days warranty)
UltraFire manufactures illumination tools that are powerful, compact, rugged and reliable. When you own a UltraFire flashlight, you own the best.
UNQUOTE
At the top of that page, they offer the following warning (- IMPORTANT - "Beware of fake products") which links to this page:
QUOTE
BAD LIST WEBSITE
"Important-Beware of fake products"
We are the manufacture of ULTRAFIRE product. We have trade mark of "UltraFire".
Now, many fake UltraFire product in the market happen. Please take caution.
All the UltraFire fake product is no quality assurance, please stop to purchase.
Fake UltraFire Product WebSite List:
www.amazon.com
www.ultrafire.jp
www.ultrafire.pt
www.dealextreme.com
www.lightmalls.com
www.alldaymall.com
www.dinodirect.com
www.ultrafire.com.cn
www.trademe.co.nz
www.aliexpress.com
www.gadgettown.com
www.chinabuye.com
www.banggood.com
www.mercadolibre.com.ar
www.kaidomain.com
www.lightinthebox.com
www.miniinthebox.com
UNQUOTE
So, according to the "official Ultrafire website," if you purchase from any of the above websites, you are getting a "fake." Who knows? Generally speaking, I prefer to stay away from any low cost light that has "Fire" in its name.
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You can be fairly certain that the charger and batteries you bought were not genuine Ultrafire products. No, Ultrafire is not the same quality as the higher priced competition but they do not sell a "matched" combination of incompatible products. The companies that copy their products or as is more often the case just put an Ultrafire label on whatever they are selling do these types of things all the time. Hence the bad reputation associated with the name. I still love my light and would recommend it to others but ONLY the exact model I got through the same seller. Go to Fasttech's website and look at the one I bought. The Fasttech SKU number is 1358902. You could order one yourself for less than $13. Mine only took 10 days to get to Michigan from China. My only beef is that they listed it as a forward clicky and it's a reverse. They are issuing me a credit for the mistake. If you actually get it and don't think it's a nice light for the money with decent build quality I will be happy to buy it from you for the full price.
Okay, gonna stop you right there. I bought the cells and charger off of Lighthound.com
Ever heard of that site? Perhaps not. Okay fair enough. Allow me to enlighten you. The Hound, as it is affectionately known by far too many CPFers to count, has a well-earned reputation for being one of the most trusted online shops that you will ever encounter. And not just for lights, or batteries, or flashlight related products. If anything remotely goes wrong, no matter how minor, they WILL make it right. Period! You're not going to find fake anything sold through The Hound. And here's the other thing, it's literally impossible to buy fake Ultrafire 18650 cells. Let me explain why that is so ...
Ultrafire pulls rechargeable cells out of used laptops. They then wrap their "Ultrafire" labels around the cells they salvage. They don't actually make the cells. They don't sub-contract with a company that makes the cells for them and thus ensures QC standards. (If you buy any CR123 primary cell that says "Made in USA" on it, then it's made by Panasonic in their factory. Actual sub-contracting.) Since all Ultrafire does is pull rechargeable cells out of various different old, used, laptops and then just wrap a new label on them; it is literally impossible to buy "fake" Ultrafire 18650 cells. They don't manufacture their own cells and they don't sub-contract the work out to anyone.
The charger? A common one made by various different companies in China with various different brand names simply printed on them. Buy a large batch, stamp or print your company name on each one before re-packaging it for sale, and there you go. Once again, not manufactured by Ultrafire. Not sub-contracted out to another company. Just bought in batches for a lower price for each bulk purchase. So, it's also literally impossible to buy a fake Ultrafire charger.
That's the reason why my Ultrafire cells were incompatible with my Ultrafire charger. They weren't actual OEM products, despite being labelled as such. Now that's the sort of thing one learns over time. CPF is full of members who are more than happy to help those new to the hobby. But, granted, some new members simply aren't interested. Fair enough.
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thedoc007
Flashlight Enthusiast
Monocrom, if you read my previous posts, you'll understand that I am largely agreeing with you - I do not feel that playing the lottery is worth it, and I avoid Ultrafire just because of the potential hassle. I have stated before that their marketing (and specs) are full of lies, exaggerations, and mistakes. Some of this may not be entirely the fault of Ultrafire (any company can be subject to counterfeiting) but even so, personally, I know there are other (and in my opinion better) options out there for value.
That being said, let me try an analogy on you. If someone buys a new pair of headphones that they think sound really awesome (but you know better) would you call them an idiot and tell them the 'phones are junk compared to yours? If so, I have nothing more to say. If not, think about why. Gently educating someone is not the same thing as calling their purchase into question...and they may have different priorities than you. Just because it isn't worth it to you, doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile purchase to someone else.
Also, although you are right about many CPFers having bad experiences with Ultrafire, it isn't as one-sided as you would have us believe.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?154449-UltraFire-Cree-C2&highlight=ultrafire
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?185893-Ultrafire-WF-502D-Review
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?157965-Ultrafire-Lights-What-is-your-take
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?191387-Ultrafire-C3-Stainless-Steel-1AA
And from Dan @ Dan's Data - great resource for all kind of gadget reviews and thoughtful commentary on tech of all kinds.
http://www.dansdata.com/ultrafire.htm
I am well aware there are several negative threads for every positive one, my point was only to provide a little balance. Your statement that reviews are negative "across the board" is false.
I will say unequivocally that I have never have and never will buy ****Fire cells - that is a safety concern, and not to be messed around with. However, I think Ultrafire has a place in budget light options - if nothing else, it will teach you to appreciate higher quality lights. Remember, though, not everyone can afford to buy $100 lights on a regular basis. If someone asks you to recommend a Kia or Hyundai, and you tell them only a Ferrari will do, you don't understand the needs of the person asking the question.
Sure, but some people enjoy playing the lottery - as long as they can afford it, why shouldn't they? You've done your job, brought up some potential issues . Now, let them decide. And don't hate on them if they do win!
