LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

Bones · Jan 5, 2010

MarioJP said:
...

here are the specs of my chargers

they are both BC-9009 with firmware 35

Both chargers comes with a 3V 4A AC adapter. If the power supply has been changed then that can be a problem.

...

so the only 2 possibility I can think of is

1.after aug 09 some design changes were made??
2.Power supply since aug 09 is pushing too much than what the charger can handle.??

I did read somewhere where the power supply that are coming in these new units the volts is 3.3v-3.5v if that is the case this is very bad and disaster is waiting to happen. Charger as it is already at its limits at 3 volts. 3.3v to 3.5v is just pushing it. If the MOSFET fails this is bad.

why would they up the voltage is beyond me.

Regrettably, no matter how many times you post that it must be otherwise, there is no credible evidence that your BC-9009 is in any way distinguishable from those that are melting down.

Yours is version 35, this is the version that is melting down:

ShawnLam said:
Both my models are BC-9009 version 35. I just plugged-in the one that had the meltdown and it still runs! Pretty scary.

They were melting down well before to August 9th:

Dangerous Meltdown, June 30, 2009
This charger worked great for 4 weeks. And then it happened! I Put 2 aaa NIMH Batteries in to be recharged. Went to take a shower and when I came downstairs, I just thought I would take a look at the status of the batteries. To my horror, I saw 2 batteries with the acid leaking out of the jacket of the batteries! Little bubbles of acid coming out. I turned it off but by this time it was so hot i had to use a paper towel to remove them! After that, I noticed the bottom of the charger where the batteries lay was melted! WHAT!!!
...

Your power supply's output is 3.0 volts and 4.0 amperes, this is identical to those connected to the chargers that are melting down:

ShawnLam said:
.

...

So, while I sincerely hope that you'll be able submit another 22 posts to this thread repeatedly stating that your BC-9009 continues to work perfectly, and therefore can't be the same as those that are melting down, I trust that you are still taking the appropriate precautions 'just in case'.

MarioJP · Jan 5, 2010

Its been 5 months with this charger. I suppose it can fail within a year or so, but failing on first use there is a flaw somewhere. I still continue to use this charger and I can't explain why both of my chargers has not melted but for others it has.

And seems like Amazon has finished reviewing "this item" and is now back in stock. I wonder what kind of "review" did Amazon did and the "item" has "passed" to sell again??.

Turbo DV8 · Jan 5, 2010

MarioJP said:
I am starting to wonder if its a design flaw of the charger itself or the AC power adapter is pushing too much current than what the charger can handle or combination of both?

Power supplies don't "push" current into the charger. If the charger requests it, the power supply will deliver it, up to it's rated output. If the charger has a defective component and it draws excessive current, the power supply is all too eager to try to deliver it.

MarioJP · Jan 5, 2010

That I know. I was going by if the voltage on the AC adapter was higher than the charger not current. Since its 3v going in to a 3v charger, them that rules out that possibility. (Assuming the label is accurate than what the adapter is delivering lol).

I hope something is done to resolve this problem.

Bones · Jan 6, 2010

"LaCrosse chargers, Unböring!"

I posted the above in jest earlier in this thread, but it's nonetheless amply illustrated by these two submissions from Amazon:

First one Melted, Second One Exploded My Batteries, January 5, 2010
I got this charger for Christmas a few weeks ago and was really excited because I had some older NiMh AA rechargeable batteries (2500mah) that needed to be refreshed. After putting them through the refresh cycle at 250mA, a few hours later I come back and find that my room smells like something's burning and one of the Display Buttons had melted and was permanently lower than the others. After contacting Amazons Customer Service, they sent me another one and I sent this one back.

The second charger arrived just a few days later (props to Amazon's customer service) and I used it a few times to charge up some batteries and refresh a few older ones. This one worked fine for a couple weeks or so until I used it to refresh another set of 4 NiMh rechargeable batteries (2500mah) at 250ma discharging current. The batteries were in the charger for about 15 hours and it seemed like it was almost done going through the discharge/charge cycles. I went into the other room for a bit and came back to the sound of sizzling, smoke and half melted batteries sitting in the charger.
...

Blew both batteries right out of the charger, August 8, 2009
Came home to find this after charging two Lenmar NiMH 2000mAh batteries. I only wish that I was home to hear it explode (it blew both batteries right out of the charger). Even though this happened, I loved my BC-900 and I'm getting another one.

...

Please note that credit for the original report of the second submission belongs to e_dogg via post 152.

Apollo Cree · Jan 6, 2010

Let's get real here.

I don't know what, if anything is wrong with the charger design. It's entirely possible that there's some component that fails and puts the charger into "self destruct" mode.

It doesn't matter how long your charger goes before self destructing. That doesn't mean it won't. Did you ever have an electronic device that went a long time, and then died because of a failing component? Now, imagine that when the component fails, it makes the device melt down.

Do you really want to risk this?

arteitle · Jan 6, 2010

Chalk up one more melting BC-9009. What follows is the account that I sent to LaCrosse Technology, Amazon.com, and the CPSC:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]I just received a new BC-9009 charger from Amazon.com today; on the bottom it's stamped "9N9 V32 U", if that's important. I also have a year-old BC-900 which has worked well. But, having read on Candlepowerforums.com and Amazon.com that recent BC-9009s have been overheating and melting, I cautiously tested the new charger by running the four supplied AA NiMH cells simultaneously through the charger's "Test" cycle at 1000 mA charge (500 mA discharge). The initial topping-off charge and discharge stages of the cycle went seemingly without trouble, but around the time that the cells started switching back into charge mode to finish up, I noticed an acrid smell of burning plastic, and found that button #2 felt soft to the touch, like its support was melting. Needless to say, I removed the cells and unplugged the charger. Clearly, something is wrong with this charger (and apparently many others). Should I return the charger to Amazon.com, or to you, for a properly working replacement? I'm not confident that I'll get a non-melting replacement from Amazon.com. Thanks.[/FONT]

LeifUK · Jan 7, 2010

MarioJP said:
Its been 5 months with this charger. I suppose it can fail within a year or so, but failing on first use there is a flaw somewhere. I still continue to use this charger and I can't explain why both of my chargers has not melted but for others it has.

And seems like Amazon has finished reviewing "this item" and is now back in stock. I wonder what kind of "review" did Amazon did and the "item" has "passed" to sell again??.

Let's say that 1 in 100 are faulty. So your chance of getting 1 faulty unit is 1/100 = 1%. The probability of getting at least 1 dud in 2 purchases assuming simple Bayesian statistics is (if I remember correctly):

P(dud + okay) + P(okay+dud) + P(dud + dud) = 2*(0.01*0.99) + 0.01*0.01.

That is roughly 2% which means that you have a roughly 98% probability of not getting any faulty units. Chances are you will get two good ones even assuming a high failure rate of 1%.

Now would you buy a unit where there was a 1 in 100 chance that it might burn your house down?

The fact that one person had two failures, one being a replacement unit suggests some sort of correlation i.e. a faulty batch, or something specific to the way that person uses the unit that triggers a fault.

Elliot · Jan 7, 2010

Now would you buy a unit where there was a 1 in 100 chance that it might burn your house down?

Has anyone ever reported a house fire EVER? Or even just a little fire?

Unforgiven · Jan 7, 2010

Elliot said:
Has anyone ever reported a house fire EVER? Or even just a little fire?

So if actual flames weren't reported, it would be ok to use?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=17116648

Elliot · Jan 7, 2010

If the charger is not working - it should not be used. I was just asking if there were any house fires actually started by this charger, because a number of people implied that it will burn your house down to the ground.

ex. post #78 - right before mine - the one I was responding to.

1 in 100 chance that it might burn your house down

But, I'm glad you managed to find a 4 year old post about the guy who was charging his cells unattended on a piece of wood.

ShawnLam · Jan 7, 2010

I just had a look at the most recent user reports on Amazon - to say they look fishy is an understatement. What do you think?

After averaging one user review per day for the past few weeks, all of a sudden there are 7 new user reviews within an hour giving 5 stars ane one with a 4. The reviewers all look too "fresh" to be authentic. Only two have any other review history, one for a $12.99 feng shui crystal that was reviewed today and the other for a competing La Crosse product.

3
4
5
6
7

Looks like a concerted effort to bury the recent meltdown reports. I wouldn't be surprised if you soon see a new model number in an effort by La Crosse to distance themselves from their past, like they did with the BC-900 that became the BC-9009.

Unforgiven · Jan 7, 2010

Elliot said:
... I was just asking if there were any house fires actually started by this charger, because a number of people implied that it will burn your house down to the ground.

ex. post #78 - right before mine - the one I was responding to.

But, I'm glad you managed to find a 4 year old post about the guy who was charging his cells unattended on a piece of wood.

I was replying to your post asking about reports of fire which seemed to imply that melting plastic and heat deformed battery casings aren't reasons enough to be concerned about a fire hazzard.

So it's good to go if there are no flames, it hasn't burned a house, is not used on wood furniture and the reports of issues are less than 3years 11months (corrected) old?

Gotcha.

In your opinion, under what conditions and on which surfaces in the home would it be safe to use this charger?

Elliot · Jan 7, 2010

by Elliot:
Has anyone ever reported a house fire EVER? Or even just a little fire?

That was my Post - How does that imply anything other than a question?

I sit corrected, the report you pointed to was NOT 4 years old, it was 3 years and 11 months old. Sorry, for not being more specific. :poke:

TakeTheActive · Jan 7, 2010

ShawnLam said:
I just had a look at the most recent user reports on Amazon - to say they look fishy is an understatement. What do you think?

After averaging one user review per day for the past few weeks, all of a sudden there are 7 new user reviews within an hour giving 5 stars ane one with a 4...

...Looks like a concerted effort to bury the recent meltdown reports...

9 reviews today!

Just enough to get the last 'Meltdown' Report off the first page (it's now Review #11). Fishy indeed! :shakehead

EDIT: Maybe "some folks" should visit Amazon and add some Helpful / Not Helpful votes to some 'select' posts? :thinking:

Unforgiven · Jan 7, 2010

Elliot said:
That was my Post - How does that imply anything other than a question?

I sit corrected, the report you pointed to was NOT 4 years old, it was 3 years and 11 month old. Sorry, for not being more specific.

Time frame corrected in my previous post.

KiwiMark · Jan 7, 2010

I have decided to continue using my BC-900 chargers as usual because they work well, giving my batteries a full charge in a reasonable time. I might however find a piece of non-flammable material to sit my 2 chargers on and also charge my batteries while I am in the same room (that isn't that hard - it is my bedroom/computer room and I spend a lot of time here). It just seems sensible to not leave batteries charging and go out for a few hours - probably a sensible approach with any batteries in any charger.

If there is a 98% chance that neither of my chargers are faulty then I'll be damned if I am going to spend money to replace them. If a reasonable percentage of the 1% that are faulty manage to fail in the first year then the fact that both mine are a year old with no issues probably reduces the chance that either of mine are faulty by a reasonable amount. I don't think I'll get too paranoid when the chance of either of my chargers being faulty is probably under 1 in 500.

But:
I don't know that I would buy one now if I needed a new charger - especially with the chance of a batch failure.

LeifUK · Jan 7, 2010

Elliot said:
Has anyone ever reported a house fire EVER? Or even just a little fire?

I was explaining to the other poster that it was quite probable that his would be fine even if the fault probability was quite high e.g. 1 in 100.

Regarding fires, in most, or maybe all, the reports I see the owner turns the unit off when they smell burning, so there is a question as to what would happen with an overnight meltdown. If there were some, I missed the reports.

Anyway. regardless of whether or not actual fires have started, the unit is obviously a fire risk.

The suggestions that someone is purposefully moving the fault reports off the Amazon product front page is shocking. If someone is in contact with US authorities concerning a failure, maybe they could report these suspicions? (I am a UK national, and do not own the charger in question.)

ShawnLam · Jan 7, 2010

TakeTheActive said:
9 reviews today!

Just enough to get the last 'Meltdown' Report off the first page (it's now Review #11). Fishy indeed! :shakehead

EDIT: Maybe "some folks" should visit Amazon and add some Helpful / Not Helpful votes to some 'select' posts? :thinking:

Absolutely disgraceful. I cannot believe Amazon is allowing this to continue. Well at least their inaction and the recent flurry of comments is so obvious that it warrants media attention.

I agree - please add helpful posts on Amazon, vote-up the meltdown ones and down the bogus ones.

Elliot · Jan 7, 2010

Really good!
Another thread that's crossed over into the world of the bizarre. Like the guy on "Mythbusters" used to say, "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

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