My 2-stage Kroll mod

LED Zeppelin

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In brainstorming about a 2-stage upgrade for ARCmania's upcoming SuperFlashlight Mc38 (see TrueBlue's post in the B/S/T forum), TrueBlue gave me a spark that resulted in my following mod. My Arc LS was the guinea pig, and now sports a working 2-stage function. Please note that I have not searched the threads for this mod, and if it has been done before my apologies for the redundant post.

The basic principle is the same as the popular Fenix mod, the SPST Kroll on/off switch is shunted by a resistor and now functions as an on or resistored selector, while the on/off function is delegated to twisting of the tailcap.

This is a shot of the components: the disassembled Kroll with the spring and button cover removed, and two new parts - a 10 ohm resistor and an aluminum battery contact I fabricated to replace the spring and house the resistor.
kroll10lt.jpg

The following shows just the switch mechanicals and the battery contact housing the resistor before soldering and shaping.
kroll21zw.jpg

This shot shows the reassembled switch with the new components installed. The battery contact is sized to snap into the base of the Kroll where the spring used to seat. The free end of the resistor is bent to nest in the relief below the small silver spring, and tuck under that spring. The spring needs to be removed to accomplish this. Note that there is barely enough room to fit the resistor wire up the side of the housing. You need to make sure the wire is completely tucked in or reinstalling the switch assembly back into the tailcap will be difficult. If it feels like it's crossthreading, take it out and flatten the wire some more.
kroll32ya.jpg

Here is another view of the finished switch.
kroll41lw.jpg

And finally a shot of the installed switch and what it looks like from inside.
kroll56rm.jpg

So far it works flawlessly in the Arc.

This modded switch will most likely work in a multitude of lights with a separate threaded tailcap. However, depending on the seal design, the light may or may not be sealed at the tailcap when untwisted. Try turning on the light, and see if you can use the tail as a twisty. Note that due to the original Kroll spring, the cap may come off before the spring looses contact with the battery.

You could do the same mod by shortening the spring and soldering the resistor directly to it, but due to flexing the resistor wires and/or solder joint may fail prematurely. Also make sure the resistor lead that goes up to the small spring doesn't touch the main spring or the resistor will be bypassed. That is the reason I strategically placed the body of the resistor in the side of my custom battery contact.

Depending on the host light and the internal clearances between the battery and the Kroll, the cutom battery contact may have to be longer in order to engage the battery before the tailcap bottoms out.

If there is sufficient interest I could look into having the battery contact reproduced by a shop. I'd specify a brass or copper material though for solderability. Also, a couple different lengths would make it adaptable to different lights, or a longer length that could be easily filed down. The shorter the better so the overall light length will be minimized and the seals engaged (as long as the tailcap doesn't bottom out). Appropriate resistor values would range from 5 - 60 ohms depending on the light and personal preferences. Or possibly there are members with lathes that could make these.

My design is by no means the final word. There are probably more elegant and more easily made alternate designs, but over a 12 hr timeframe from concept to prototype (with the distraction of my job thrown in) this is what I came up with.
 

greenLED

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LED Zeppelin said:
Note that there is barely enough room to fit the resistor wire up the side of the housing. You need to make sure the wire is completely tucked in or reinstalling the switch assembly back into the tailcap will be difficult. If it feels like it's crossthreading, take it out and flatten the wire some more.

A potential way of avoiding this would be to cut a thin groove on the switch's plastic assembly, run the resistor's wire throught there (flush with the side of the swith) and attach it to the outside spring. Would that make sense?

So, the switch has on/off (twisty), and clicking it switches hi/low? Am I understanding that part correctly. In any case, it's a cool mod.
 

LED Zeppelin

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greenLED,
Yes, that would make the installation easier. As is, mine just makes it and the threads cut the wire a bit helping with the connection, but it is a struggle to thread the switch without crossthreading. In general your suggestion would be wise. Thanks for the input!
 

chrisse242

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Looks like you have accomplished what many have searched for for a long time. A two stage switch for the longbow micra! How did you make the Battery contact thingy?

Chrisse
 

chrisse242

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Tried it, and the concept works, even with original Kroll spring. Light flickers badly on low, but that might be because I dind't solder the resistor and because I'm running a Wiz2 Mccapsule which is known to be picky when it comes to resistored two-stage switches. Now I only have to find out a working resistor value.

Great Mod!!!

Chrisse
 

cy

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nice Job!

this looks to be much more reliable than gadgetlover's original two stage mod.

removing the spring and adding a foam pad for a twist operation makes sense.

this may be the answer for a simple/reliable two stage arc mod
 

chrisse242

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chrisse242 said:
Light flickers badly on low, but that might be because I dind't solder the resistor and because I'm running a Wiz2 Mccapsule which is known to be picky when it comes to resistored two-stage switches.

Chrisse

Tried it again with the Original Longbow Capsule and cr123 li-ion cell, no flicker here, but a stable low mode. With ten ohms and a li-ion cell, the low is too bright for my taste, with a primary cr123 it's just perfect.

This is so easy, simply stick the resistor in there, run it around the kroll-spring, ready...
I can't believe nobody did think about that sooner.

kroll2stage.jpg
 

TrueBlue

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Yeppee! It looks like the simple idea is working! Two brightness Krolls are being make. Everyone can take their old Kroll switches that are gathering dust to make the simple mod. I wonder if the sale of Kroll switches will go up now?

Good job, Zepp!
 
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greenLED

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I kinda like the idea of keeping the spring; I'm always afraid of crushing the battery. I'm not so sure what the real chances of that happening are, but...

One step forward in the evolution of the kroll! Now, if someone came up with a lower profile one (flat rubber boot)... :whistle:
 

TrueBlue

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I've attached a picture of my two stage Kroll. I did it different. I used a pin vice and drilled a hole through the nylon wall. Then I recessed the 10 ohm resistor inside the center so the contact will not touch. Then epoxy glue locked everything into place. Finally I soldered the two resistor ends. The Kroll is now running on a chopped Mini Maglite running a Badboy 400 with a Li-Ion battery. It works great. Low and high beam. The light now can be used at low then with a small push of the Kroll I have a 'burst of light' for any special occasion. What a great mod! It is too easy. How come no one has thought of it before?

I did try the modded switch with a chopped Maglite with a 14500 battery and a Wiz 650. Like it was said earlier the light did have a high and low beam but the low beam was 'wobbly.'

My Kroll switch looks blacken not because I burned it but I had graphite on the threads of the Minimag.

 

chrisse242

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greenLED said:
I kinda like the idea of keeping the spring; I'm always afraid of crushing the battery. I'm not so sure what the real chances of that happening are, but...

One step forward in the evolution of the kroll! Now, if someone came up with a lower profile one (flat rubber boot)... :whistle:

I'm not sure about the long term reliabilty of my approach. It's more like a "quick and dirty"-Version, but it makes everything reversible. I hope I can find a usefull resistor value, ten ohms with the Wiz2750 just glows a little, you have to be about 2cm away from the "target" to actually see anything.


Chrisse
 

LED Zeppelin

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Chrisse,

The thingy I made started life as a "nut-sert" (I think that's what they're called). It's an aluminum rivet-like part with internal threads (1/4-20) meant to install threads in sheet metal. With a special tool (a modified rivet gun), it deforms and sandwiches the sheet metal.

Originally it's about 5/8" long and the head dia. was 0.435". As I don't have a lathe, I sawed it and worked some belt-sander magic on it so it snapped into the Kroll.

However, I don't think you need to find one. TrueBlue's solution is more elegant.

Retaining the main spring would be an ideal set-up for a miniMag, where the head switch is retained as the on-off.

If I were going to build another for use in a twisty cap, I'd recommend a solid slug to replace the spring. I think the contact would be better, and a short slug would allow minimum overall length while still engaging any seals if possible. What I would do with the resistor is bury it in the housing (a la TB's method), connect one end to internal gold spring, and the other to the exposed thread-contacting spring. I don't even think soldering is necessary, just make sure the resistor is held by the spring pressures, and not subject to flexing from any spring or contact pressures.

I'm having trouble finding Krolls to buy, but as soon as I do I'm going to put them on all my miniMags to start.

Anyone know where I can get a dozen or so?
 

cy

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gadget lover first came up with two stage kroll mod using a resister soldered to spring. mine was not very reliable and had to unscrew too far to seal properly.

going with a solid contact instead a spring would make switch action more positive
 

TrueBlue

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LED Zeppelin said:
...snip I'm having trouble finding Krolls to buy, but as soon as I do I'm going to put them on all my miniMags to start.

Anyone know where I can get a dozen or so?...end snip

For a bunch of Kroll switches you might check out Kroll International that is based, I believe, out of Texas.
 

greenLED

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TrueBlue said:
For a bunch of Kroll switches you might check out Kroll International that is based, I believe, out of Texas.

Funny, their main page says they have no minimum order, but the "more info" page has:

Kroll Inc. said:
Kroll only sells to Retail Dealers.

Kroll does not do Retail Sales.

Kroll does not participate in Bids.

Kroll does not do Agency Sales.

:confused: I guess you have to register as a dealer to buy a kroll switch? Seems like you need to fax them a copy of your retail sales license. :stupid:

Also, who makes them, kroll switches, I mean? That website lists a gazillion-and-a-half manufacturers and no search function.

Doesn't the Shoppe have these anymore?
 
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TrueBlue

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The web site always scared me! I always got confused going there. I understand if you send them an email to, uhh, I forgot, then the company give good service. Other than that information...:shrug:
 

TrueBlue

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I've tested the Kroll two brightness switches with these lights.

Super Flashlight III
ARC LS
Badboy
Madmax
MiniPro
SMJLED
TnC Products Key-Lux 350

The only time the Kroll two brightness switch didn't work on was the Wiz 2 converter. It partially worked but the low beam flickered.

 

LED Zeppelin

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greenLED said:
Doesn't the Shoppe have these anymore?

GreenLED, I got a half dozen last week from the Shoppe, they just got some in.
PhotonFanatic was also kind enough to contact me and he has them in stock as well.

I've discovered that TrueBlue's version that retains the stock spring is ideal for MiniMags, the head remains the switch, and the Kroll becomes the level selector. I've used his drilled housing/buried resistor method with great success in the MiniMags, while my solid contact version is best for twisty lights.

To make TB's version, I removed the rubber cover, the main spring, and the small silver spring.

Then I drilled a 0.092" hole with a pin vise starting at the lower spring seat of the small silver spring, and angled to emerge near the center of the bottom.

I trimmed one end of the resistor and soldered it to a coil at the base of the main spring.

I simultaneously slid the resistor down the hole and snapped the main spring into its seat.

I then trimmed the other lead, tucked it into the silver spring seat, then reinstalled the spring and cover.

Now my MM's have achieved a status that belies their roots.
 

Bullzeyebill

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Streamlight carries the Kroll switch as a part for the original Streamlight Junior 2AA light. Markell Inc. in Santa Rosa CA carries them. Markell is a Streamlight warranty shop/Streamlight distributor.

Bill
 

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