Huntlight FT01PJ XR-E runtimes

[chevrofreak]

This light really took a long time to do....

Output measurements taken within the first few seconds of a run. If you want to know the estimated lumens at any point on the graph, figure out the "Total Light Output" number on the vertical scale and divide it by 14.

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 5 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 1802 - (est 128.71 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 5 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 1928 - (est 137.71 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 5 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 1993 - (est 142.36 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 4 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 1270 - (est 90.71 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 4 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 1338 - (est 95.57 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 4 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 1387 - (est 99.07 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 3 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 907 - (est 64.79 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 3 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 964 - (est 68.86 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 3 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 999 - (est 71.36 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 2 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 541 - (est 38.64 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 2 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 587 - (est 41.93 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 2 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 608 - (est 43.43 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 1 - LG 2400mAh 18650: 178 - (est 12.71 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 1 - Energizer E2 CR123a: 200 - (est 14.29 lumens)

Huntlight FT01PJ (XR-E) - level 1 - AW High Current 750mAh RCR123: 208 - (est 14.86 lumens)

I have some of AW's new high current RCR123's and a much needed new charger coming thanks to a very generous person (iNDiGLo) so when those arrive I'll do a set of runtimes on each level with them as well.

Thanks to everyone else who donated money, it paid for the CR123's. Thank you to 4sevens for donating the LG 18650's.

Thanks a bunch to JonSidneyB who donated the light for testing.

 

[lightbug]

:wow: :goodjob: . Fantastic charts

 

[daveman]

Hey Chevrofreak, great work as always. The FT-01PJ is the HAII body, right?


Can I trouble you for just one more thing? Can you tell me what the lumen count is on the brightest SF U2 you have tested with the same setup you tested this Huntlight with? You don't have to post any graphs or anything, I'll take your word for it, thanks.

 

[chevrofreak]

Yes this one is the black type II anodized version.

The brightest U2 was 1572 (est 112.29 lumens)

here's a graph anyway

 

[Concept]

Cheers chevrofreak for a good job.

 

[daveman]

Is it safe to say this Huntlight is a U2 slayer for now? It's definitely brighter and runs longer, with 5 levels of brightness as well, cheaper for sure. How does the beam profile compare with the U2?

 

[EngrPaul]

I love this flashlight. They did it right. The outputs and runtimes are the icing on the cake.

 

[Phaserburn]

Great work, Chev! I probably should go back to previous threads, but wasn't the Huntlight supposed to be regulated even when using a single li-ion? It obviously isn't a high enough voltage to engage the circuitry. Not a terrible plot at all, but not the flat regulation when using 6V worth of primaries.

 

[chevrofreak]

Yeah, not running in regulation on an 18650 is a bit of a disappointment to me, but it is still extremely bright.

Someone needs to make some 18340's for these lights so you get the regulation of the higher voltage, and the higher capacity of an 18mm diameter cell. Might be able to make them as high as 1000mAh.

 

[Phaserburn]

Or perhaps an extender to that 2 18500s can be used, ala Wolf Eyes.

 

[Dan C]

I just charted mine last night on level 5, looks just like yours complete with the spike before the dropoff. Only difference is mine ran a tad longer than yours, maybe 5 minutes on the same cells. Thanks for doing the charts on the lower levels, something I wasn't ambitious enough to tackle....

As a matter of interest, the current draw on mine is .690, .480, .342, .205, and .068ma. Lower than Huntlight says but I'm just replacing the tailcap with the DMM leads......is that the correct way to do it?

Dan C

 

[LightBright]

Sounds like the right way to me. Thanks for the graphs, Chevro! Wow that regulation- what regulation? Looks like resistors.

 

[adirondackdestroyer]

If only it had regulation on the 18650 like it does with two 123 primary cells. I don't know why it doesn't considering that the original FT-01 did. Either way the runtimes are very impressive and the brightness is HUGE! Goodbye U2.

 

[greenLED]

Sounds like the right way to me. Thanks for the graphs, Chevro! Wow that regulation- what regulation? Looks like resistors.

:huh2:
Yes, it's a pitty li-ions don't have high enough voltage to quick the regulator into action, but that doesn't mean the light is DD. There's no way DD can show a flat discharge curve like chev's getting with primaries.

 

[LightBright]

So it must be a buck converter that goes out of regulation below 5V or so. The prototype adjustable output converter I built for the 18650's has a totally flat output from beginning to end.

 

[jsr]

Judging by the runtime plots chevro did on the original FT-01 where running 2x R123As resulted in a very short runtime, the driver is likely a linear regulator (LDO). If it was a buck, the pulse width would have reduced enough running 2 Li-Ions that runtime would be higher. Perhaps Huntlight changed the LDO they're using in the FT-01 XR-E lights to one that needs more headroom. Regardless, still amazing output.

I'm curious to see this compared to the upcoming Lumapower M1 XR-E version. And am fighting off the urge to pick one up now and wait for the Q3/Q4 bins to be more available and put as standard in the FT-01 and M1.

 

[chevrofreak]

Judging by the runtime plots chevro did on the original FT-01 where running 2x R123As resulted in a very short runtime, the driver is likely a linear regulator (LDO). If it was a buck, the pulse width would have reduced enough running 2 Li-Ions that runtime would be higher. Perhaps Huntlight changed the LDO they're using in the FT-01 XR-E lights to one that needs more headroom. Regardless, still amazing output.

I'm curious to see this compared to the upcoming Lumapower M1 XR-E version. And am fighting off the urge to pick one up now and wait for the Q3/Q4 bins to be more available and put as standard in the FT-01 and M1.

The FT01PJ luxeon I tested ran 70 minutes in regulation with a pair of RCR123's. I don't see how it could be an LDO.

An LG 2400mAh 18650 has about 8.2 watt-hours at 1 amp, while 2 RCR123's combined are about 4.4 watt-hours at 1/2 amp, and 2 CR123a's are about 7.5 watt-hours at 1/2 amp. That pretty much matches up with the runtimes for the FT01PJ, indicating that the circuit is putting most of that power to use instead of burning it up..

 

[jsr]

If it's a buck regulator, there would be a PWM (or PFM) control on it that would reduce the duty cycle proportional to the input voltage. Since 2x R123As is double the voltage of 1x 18650, the duty cycle should shrink (say by half as an example, but the relationship is not necessarily linear). Considering the reduction in duty cycle, I'd expect the runtime of 2x R123As to be better than what showed up in the tests, closer to 2/3rds the runtime of 1x 18650. If it's an LDO or other type of linear regulator, then a source with a third the capacity would be expected to only provide a third the runtime (with the rest of the voltage dissipated as heat). It just doesn't look right that at 7.4V, the runtime is so low if it's a buck regulator.

 

[daveman]

I'm curious to see this compared to the upcoming Lumapower M1 XR-E version. And am fighting off the urge to pick one up now and wait for the Q3/Q4 bins to be more available and put as standard in the FT-01 and M1.

I too, am waiting for Lumapower's XR-E M1. Although I expect it to have similar performance and runtime as the FT-01, unless the M1 sports a Q bin, which is unlikely, as Ricky said the M1 will be available before the end of the month.

I guess the current Luxeon based U2 is out of the race for the brightest/most versatile 2-cell tactical LED light then?

 

[Mike abcd]

I posted some speculation about that behavior in the announcement thread when folks started talking about using an 18650. Based on the actual results, the Cree is just being direct driven on the higher levels and just begins to get into regulation on the lower ones as the battery voltage drops.

A lot depends on the actual Vf of the particular emitter and some might see better or worse results. The buck regulator should limit current on at at least the higher levels even with a very low Vf emitter.

The buck regulator probably imposes a voltage drop which makes it even tougher to predict behavior without knowing how large it is even if you know the Vf vs current of the emitter.

I'm still very impressed with the measured performance on an 18650 of Chevrofreak's tested light.

Are 2 x RCR123 within the safe range of the electronics? I know it's not on some lights. You might wind up direct driving the LED (bad) or blowing the buck regulator really quickly (worse).

I'd be really tempted if they hadn't put high first. I can't understand the current trend in that direction with lights with 100+ lumens high level output.

Mike