18650 primary cells?

[901-Memphis]

Just wondering why there isn't a 18650 lithium 3v battery available on the market. Given its dimensions it could have the potential to be over 3200 mah or more. Has anyone ever seen or heard of companies doing something like that?


I'm sure it wouldn't happen as there's not much of a market for it but I'd buy tons of them.

 

[45/70]

I seriously doubt you'll ever see 18650 lithium primary cells. Maybe if $50-$100 disposable, single use laptop battery packs appear, but somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

As you said, there just isn't enough of a market for such a cell to be profitable. I would also imagine that the cost per cell would be astronomical. If they ever did come about, I would guess the capacity would be closer to 4000-5000mAh though.:)

Dave

 

[jasonck08]

CR123 primary lithium cells were created for cameras AFAIK. Now day's cameras are mostly digital and use Li-ion packs.

I don't believe there would be enough demand to warrant the creation of a 18650 lithium primary cell.

There are Lithium Thionyl Chloride cells that are ~18500 size, and about 3.7Ah, but these are designed for very low discharge currents usually micro amps.

 

[sspc]

I would love a 18650 primary. I would keep them as backups for my single cell 18650 lights

 

[Shadowww]

I seriously doubt you'll ever see 18650 lithium primary cells. Maybe if $50-$100 disposable, single use laptop battery packs appear, but somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

As you said, there just isn't enough of a market for such a cell to be profitable. I would also imagine that the cost per cell would be astronomical. If they ever did come about, I would guess the capacity would be closer to 4000-5000mAh though.:)

Dave

CR123A: 16mm diameter, 34mm height results in 6838 mm^3 volume
18650: 18mm diameter, 65mm height results in 16547 mm^3 volume.
16546/6838 = ~2.4 times, so considering how CR123A's are 1400-1500mAh, a 18650 of same chemistry would be 3360-3600mAh at most (and, with lower nominal voltage than a 18650, the Watt-hour capacity would be essentially same as a 3000mAh Li-Ion 18650).

I would love a 18650 primary. I would keep them as backups for my single cell 18650 lights

Single-cell 18650 lights usually have drivers that wouldn't work very well with lower-voltage LiMnO2​ chemistry (the one used in CR123A's).

 

[sspc]

Single-cell 18650 lights usually have drivers that wouldn't work very well with lower-voltage LiMnO2​ chemistry (the one used in CR123A's).

Is that same chemistry used in 14505 primary cells? Those seem to deliver a good amount of energy.

 

[Shadowww]

Is that same chemistry used in 14505 primary cells? Those seem to deliver a good amount of energy.

Yes, CR123A's and CR14505's share same chemistry (the CR14505's are probably even made on same factories as the Titanium Innovations CR123A's).

 

[sspc]

Yes, CR123A's and CR14505's share same chemistry (the CR14505's are probably even made on same factories as the Titanium Innovations CR123A's).

Thanks for the info

 

[45/70]

CR123A: 16mm diameter, 34mm height results in 6838 mm^3 volume
18650: 18mm diameter, 65mm height results in 16547 mm^3 volume.

Your figures are using external dimensions of the cells. The internal dimensions are quite different. When you subtract the diameter of the shrink wrap, the thickness of the cell can, the crimped area at the positive end of the cell where the button, or nipple is added on, along with the PTC and vent mechanism, and consider other advantages in space provided by a bigger container, I would think that that at minimum, an 18650 primary cell would yield at least 4000mAh, if not quite a bit more. Of course, I'm betting we'll never find out.:)

Also, consider comparing Li-Ion 16340 and 18650 cells. 750mAh vs. 3100mAh. This isn't really a fair comparison however, as 18650 technology is much more advanced than that of 16340 cells. Just the same......

Dave

 

[Shadowww]

Also, consider comparing Li-Ion 16340 and 18650 cells. 750mAh vs. 3100mAh. This isn't really a fair comparison however, as 18650 technology is much more advanced than that of 16340 cells. Just the same......
Dave

Yep, it's very unfair comparison - 18650's are manufactured in millions (maybe tens of millions? maybe even hundreds of millions) for laptops (and some other electronics), while 16340's aren't used in any widespread devices.
Even 14500's are bit more advanced than 16340's (due to them being commonly used in camcorder, DSLR etc battery packs).

 

[901-Memphis]

Well a good discussion at least

 

[fivemega]

Years ago (when they were new), each lithium primary CR123 cell were sold about $8
Assuming if some company comes up with lithium primary cell of 18650 (3 volt, 5000mAh) for $24 each, how many people will buy them?

These days, li-cobalt cells are very reliable and with some care and top off twice a year, you will get dependable backup.

 

[901-Memphis]

I was at radio shack and they still charge like $11 for one of their crappy CR123 cells.

I would be willing to pay up to $10 per cell for an 18650 primary with over 4000 mah capacity to have as back ups for emergencies but wouldn't be practical for EDC. I like primaries with their higher capacities.