1W Red-orange super cooling experiment

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evan9162

Flashlight Enthusiast
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Apr 18, 2002
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Boise, ID
I'm having fun with this 1W Red-Orange. You might remember this Luxeon from such threads as " 1W Red-Orange luxeon super macro". This is a T-ranked Luxeon, meaning it will pour out 60-80 lumens of red-orange light at 385mA.

The Luxeon datasheets show a brightness curve that seems to increase exponentially as the junction temperature decreases for the Red/Red-orange/Amber luxeons. At 0C, brightness for the red-orange is expected to increase by 50%, and by 80% at -20C!

I wanted to supercool this thing, so I mounted it to a heat sink with some thermal goo, and sumbersed the heat sink in ice water. I also did tests with the same heat sink, but sitting in free air (which never got above room temperature at rated current). I set my camera up with fixed exposure settings, so that i could take photos of the beam on the ceiling, and get a good idea of brightness differences by comparing photos.

A few things about temperatures:

With a heat sink sitting at 20C, and a thermal resistance between the junction and star board of 20C/W, running at 1W, the junction temperature is expected to be around 40C. With a heat sink immersed in ice water, estimated at less than 5C, given the same conditions, the junction temperature is expected to be around 20C. The datasheets normalize brightness levels to 100% at a junction temperature of 25C. Let's just call that a measure of 1.

At 20C, a r-o luxeon is expected to have a brightness of about 1.10. At 40C, about 0.8. At rated current, dunking this setup in ice water theoretically will yield us a 37% increase in brightness.

Cranking up the current to 600mA increases the Vf to 3.4V, meaning that right at 2W is being dissipated. In these conditions, the bare heat sink setup yields 20C + (2 * 20) = 60C junction temperature, at a normalized brightness of 0.55. In ice water, the junction temperature is about 40C, for a normalized brightness of 0.8. In these conditions, dunking in ice water gains about 45% brightness.

At lower power, 100mA, the Vf is 2.26V, for 0.23W dissipated. Here, the bare heat sink setup yields a junction temperature of 20C + (0.23 * 20) ~ 25C, so a normalized brightness of 1. In ice water, the junction temperature is around 5-6C, giving a normalized brightness of around 1.4, yielding an increase in brightness of 40%.

These are all theoretical, and in reality, it would take some more sophisticated equipment than what I have to really measure the total light output difference.

But, what's neat is that i am able to show a brightness difference just with these photos. They've had the bit depth chopped down to emphasize different brightness levels. In all of these, running on the bare heat sink is on the left, while running in ice water is on the right:

100mA:
ro100ma.gif


350mA:
ro350ma.gif


600mA:
ro600ma.gif


And just for fun, in ice water, cranked up to 1A (4.38vF = 4.38W!), next to a 5W royal blue.
rvb.jpg



Phew! that was long - any questions? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
evan9162 said:
I'm having fun with this 1W Red-Orange
And just for fun, in ice water, cranked up to 1A (4.38vF = 4.38W!), next to a 5W royal blue.


[/ QUOTE ]

Careful there, Darin!
While screwing around with my red-orange I carelessly got a lead in the wrong place which resulted in it getting hit with several amps for a fraction of a second. The die shattered. While it now looks cool under the microscope, I would rather still have a functioning LED.
 
True - Though my power supply is a current regulated supply, so that shouldn't happen.
 
you're sure having fun with those r/o's aren't you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

i've always thought it would be nice to use a r/o as a freezer light. it would be insanely bright, and very, very efficient /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Roth,

I bet an red-orange freezer light will be perfect for any horror/slasher movie.
 
Just a note - I was using a 27mm Fraen optic for the red-orange.

Later, I will find myself a 35W peltier unit, and re-run at 100, 350, and 600mA. Hopefully, I'll be able to maintain -60C board temp (-40C junction temp at 385mA). We'll have to see what happens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Somebody dare to dip the Luxeon in liquid nitrogen (-193C)? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Maybe a 2 fold increase in efficiency /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Ditto on the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif !!

This is amazing stuff for me. I really like the idea for reddish orange freezer and even fridge lights.

BC
 
Fact: Liquid Oxygen is a pale whitish blue color.
Fact: You can burn just about anything up completely when you use it. Metals, anything! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif *poof*
 
[ QUOTE ]
LED mods As Small As Possible said:
Somebody dare to dip the Luxeon in liquid nitrogen (-193C)? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Maybe a 2 fold increase in efficiency /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

While I doubt that the LED would stand the thermal stock of the LN2 dunking, if it did it would probably be much more than a 2X increase judging from extrapolation of the curve shown on the Luxeon datasheet. The ambers would do even better!
 
Yeah, the curves for the AlInGaP Luxeons are exponential!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Anyone care to model the curve and extrapolate out to -40, -60, -100C?
 
Well, I played around a bit with extrapolating the graph.

I'm sure it's not very accurate, but it is fun to guess!

I'll post the picture of the messy graph when I get home from work - in the meantime, here are the numbers I got from my eyeballing:

-40C : 225%
-60C : 280%
-100C : 450%

So, given 60-80 lm,

-40C : 135 - 180 lm
-60C : 168 - 224 lm
-100C : 270 - 360 lm

Neat! Now only if it were true /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
evan9162 said:
Well, I played around a bit with extrapolating the graph.

I'm sure it's not very accurate, but it is fun to guess!

I'll post the picture of the messy graph when I get home from work - in the meantime, here are the numbers I got from my eyeballing:

-40C : 225%
-60C : 280%
-100C : 450%

So, given 60-80 lm,

-40C : 135 - 180 lm
-60C : 168 - 224 lm
-100C : 270 - 360 lm

Neat! Now only if it were true /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there are some risks to extrapolating way off of a graph. While the curve of luminous efficacy is fairly steep around the wavelength of the Red-Orange LEDs [around 615nm], as I recall a 100% conversion of electricity to light in this part of the spectrum yields around 300 lm/w.
 
Well, we can't be breaking the laws of physics, now can we? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Does that 100% electricity->light conversion apply at all temperatures?

[edit] Nevermind, I guess that's kind of a dumb question. How much energy at a specific wavelength totally depends on how far the electrons are dropping in orbit, and how much current is flowing. The "lumens" part is just a measure of how much our eyes percieve the brightness.

I guess, in reality, regardless of what wavelength, at 100% electricity -> photon conversion, with 1W input power you have 1W optical power out. COrrect?
 
[ QUOTE ]
evan9162 said:
I guess, in reality, regardless of what wavelength, at 100% electricity -> photon conversion, with 1W input power you have 1W optical power out. COrrect?


[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, a watt of photons is a watt of photons independent of how the photons were generated. The lumenous efficacy curve simply describes how many lumens are contained in a watt of photons as a function of wavelength. For example 1W of photons at 300nm or 800nm is zero lumens but 1W at 555nm is 600+ lumens.
 
so, in reality, the curve extrapolated towards negative temperatures would approach ~300 lm. And the only thing that the temperature difference is doing is negating any inefficiencies that the semiconductor generates.

Thus, the curve would look similar to y=-atan(x)+pi/2+C
 
OK, here's my theoretical graph:
rograph.gif


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wouldn't that be nice! In reality, at about -60 it will probably start to level out.
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Damn He2 keeps climbing outta my dewar flashlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif .

Larry
 
[ QUOTE ]
tvodrd said:
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Damn He2 keeps climbing outta my dewar flashlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif .

Larry

[/ QUOTE ]

Liquid Helium is so clear it is hard to see this happening. You should color it with some dewar dye.
 
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