Aspheric Mag Shootout (Beamshots Up) - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean vs. Mag66 & 625

[LuxLuthor]

There have been many versions of Aspheric Mags. This is one LED that I can say I really really love using. They are insanely bright in a small spot, and have a typical long LED run time. When you are walking in urban areas, you can prevent any spill from going into homes or cars. Nitro did a superb set of photos & comparisons to other types of lights in this thread.

There are also aspheric lenses that can be used with incan bulbs, but are much less effective. There are C/D Maglite size lenses and smaller. There are numerous types of LED's & lens combinations that have been tried. I am comparing:

• 1. Ledean's Aspherical 1-C Mag (Cree Xre P-4, direct drive with AW C Li-Ion) which cost $90 (& $115 for second batch). It uses the Surplus Shed PL1072 52mm wide & 37mm Focal Length. No longer available.

• 2. Mac's Aspherical 1-D Mag (Cree Xre P-4, direct drive with AW 18650 Li-Ion) side switch version cost $110. Also uses the same PL1072 lens. No longer available.

• 3. KD's new drop-in Cree Q5 & 52mm Aspheric lens presented for $40 in this thread. (It is cheaper if you buy 5; I received mine in 10 days). Combo package listed on KD's site here. As I will show below, the Cree is cleverly mounted on a heatsink pedestal that includes a boost-Buck current regulator that will accept voltage sources from 2.0 to 4.5V.

Since no assembly was required with Ledean's or Mac's, I will discuss in my next post what you get from KD, and how to use it.

There were two things that I didn't like regarding Ledean/Mac versions. First was the lens sticks out the front, so you cannot stand the light upright on its bezel...leading to it rolling off a table. The second thing was the protruding glass lens is so bright that it distracts and interferes with your night vision.

I fixed both of these issues by getting a KIU VL Stainless Bezel (again for sale here) and grinding the edge of lens so it fits inside the recess lip of Mag head & adding a fatter R-32 O-Ring as shown here. Now I can stand it up without lens touching table, and most of distracting light is shielded.

Next post I will give more details and images, but here was the first comparison that had me puzzled until I figured it out.

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[LuxLuthor]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

While there was a slight difference between Mac & Ledean's versions (Mac's is a touch whiter and brighter--likely a better LED was selected), both of them were notably brighter and whiter than the KD setup. This surprised (and disappointed) me because the mounted KD LED is an impressive accomplishment.

In a nutshell, the difference is entirely due to their lens.

OK, let's back up and see what you get in the KD $40 lens/Drop-in LED package. IMHO, the LED assembly is really worth more than the money I paid for it. First, let me say that I am not an LED Jockey, so I really don't know squat about what Cree Xre P4 or Cree Q5 actually means, or how they are supposed to compare. So let's look at some photos of this KD component.






As I said, there is no need to remove the Mag Switch, rather you just remove the Mag C/D Head and push this KD LED Assembly into the bulb holder (after removing Magswitch bulb retaining ring).

Since the Mag bulb holder has a spring, the KD LED can slide up and down, and you will want to fix its position...one of two ways.

• First way is to remove the Magswitch (remove rubber boot, and unscrew anchor set screw in push button stem with 5/64th's Allen Hex Wrench key). Remove round brass nut with same wrench in Mag bulb holder tube (in side slot) Drill a hole in plastic stem opposite slide slot where brass nut will be re-secured in rotated bulb holder tube. Replace Mag switch and install KD LED.

• Second way is to find a retaining ring and insert around LED. This method assumes you are pushing the LED Heatsink all the way down. This is quick and works nicely as shown in pix below.

OK, so now I am not thrilled with this KD aspheric lens because even after grinding down some of the edge so it fits inside the lip of Mag head, it is longer than KIU bezel. Obviously, this could be resolved if and when KD comes out with their bezel, assuming it is longer than the KIU VL version.

Before I discuss the lens in the next post, let's just look at how nice the LED assembly works out. It has what I think is a nice, bright LED...probably compares to the model that Mac/Ledean use...but not dramatically brighter. However, I love this assembly because it fits into Mac switch VERY easily, and with a perfect fit. A retaining ring holds it down, and you are done. 5 stars just for that design including the heatsink. I ran it for 30 minutes, and did not get the Mag head hot. Very very nice.

When compared to the Mac/Ledean "Direct Drive" design, this KD setup is superior because it has a boost buck regulator. You can supply a variety of battery sources that give a voltage between 2V and 4.5V

I popped this KD assembly on my Destructive Testing setup and took these two shots. I didn't want to go above 4.0V, because I don't want to kill the LED. In any case, these photos show how the KD boost/Buck regulator raises and lowers current delivered to the LED depending on the voltage source, so it averages 2.9 to 3 Watts (W=Volts x Amps). Nice to include this in the drop-in package.



OK, so that is the good news. Now in next post, I give KD the bad news. :devil:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

When I took the comparison white wall shots, I assumed the "dirty" looking beam was perhaps due to my using a complete stock Mag 1D with 4 x AA cells. Since I am used to incans needing adequate current, I speculated that I may have had too much resistance in the tailcap, battery holder, and Mag switch....resulting in too little current/voltage being delivered to the KD LED.

However, my destructive testing shown at end of above post resolved that question. I knew I was at least getting 2V & 2Amps from my setup. So I then assumed this must just be a cheap, inferior LED.

Not believing a lens could make this much difference, first thing I did was swap the SS PL-1072 lens with the new KD model in Mac's Aspheric. BAM! The lens is the problem. It makes Mac's LED setup also look dirty. Outside night sky performance of the KD LED & SS lens was now very close to the Ledean model.

Now I am happy because I have a bunch of extra SS PL-1072 lens left over that I can use with the KIU LED setup. In addition, you can still buy this quality lens from Melles Griot CVI (Old Part Number 01LAG123) here

(Note: New MellesGriot-CVI part number: LAG-52.0-37.0-C ) It is worth the $28, and Surplus Shed stopped carrying these long ago. The problem with the KD lens is from some combination of the shading from the Anti-Reflective coating, inferior glass, different shape and focal length.

I measured the lenses with my calipers and took some photos.

• The Surplus Shed PL-1072 (Melles Griot-CVI #LAG-52.0-37.0-C which is same as old MG #01LAG123) has a focal length of 37mm. Bottom edge width is 51.65mm. Bottom lip protrudes away from glass lens globe by only 0.25mm. Height from top to bottom is 23.05mm

• The KD lens is longer, and has a wider bottom lip. focal length is 34mm. The bottom width is 52.05mm. The lip protrudes 2.5mm beyond base of glass lens globe. Height from top to bottom is 26.90mm--almost 4mm longer...and why it still protrudes beyond my KIU even after grinding down the edge.

Next thing I see is how the color of the lens on white paper has a slight rose/amber/brown coloration vs. the Surplus Shed/MG models. I also notice there is a different refraction of the notepad lines--indicating a different focal length, and less clarity of lines. Some of this is captured in this final set of photos:






So in summary, the KD LED Cree Q5 with Boost Buck Regulator that works superbly as a drop in module is a real winner. The KD lens would likely be OK if you never saw a better quality lens setup, as it will still put out an impressive beam. However, it just does not compare in terms of optics and light transmission. The length issue may be resolved if KD does a longer bezel so you can then stand it up. If anyone wants to buy my 5 x KD lenses (one of which has edge ground), send me a PM. For me it is worth paying extra to get Melles Griot quality.

 

[karlthev]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Typical superb review Lux, my hat is off to you!:twothumbs


Karl

 

[olrac]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Fantastic post Lux :thumbsup:

 

[LukeA]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

I did two KD aspherics and I liked the fit better after I bored the bulb holder out to 15/32in. I was worried about breaking the negative contact tab off before that.

 

[rizky_p]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

wow a very detailed review, thanks. Never tought you would do an LED review
Make me wonder how good 01LAG123 lens are since i am impressed with KD Lens already.

 

[Swagg]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

So will the MG lens work without any other mods, just direct drop in?

 

[LuxLuthor]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

So will the MG lens work without any other mods, just direct drop in?

Yes the MG (& KD) lenses work without any modding. However, both of them will protrude outside of stock Mag, or KIU's steel bezels. You may also need to find something like the thicker O-ring to hold lens securely in place.

Of course, I can grind away more of the KD lens base at an inward angle so it will fit deeper inside the Mag head's 3-4mm inside lip. That will allow me to stand it up using KIU bezel. Just have to rotate the head out more to get sharp edges focus. I may also shorten the Mag bulb holder stem to move LED lower down.

BTW, there is no point to using a reflector in these aspheric mag setups.

I did two KD aspherics and I liked the fit better after I bored the bulb holder out to 15/32in. I was worried about breaking the negative contact tab off before that.

I consider their design as a perfect fit, and do not share your concern about the tab.

wow a very detailed review, thanks. Never tought you would do an LED review
Make me wonder how good 01LAG123 lens are since i am impressed with KD Lens already.

Well as I have said many times, this is one of the only LED's I have found that I consider useful and practical enough to use outside. Its throw is profoundly powerful. I actually have about 20 LED lights, but other than the sleek, stainless steel Jetbeam clone that Erin sold over a year ago, I have not felt interested or compelled to review any other LED's.

As I said about the KD lens....I'm sure it would be awsome for most users if you didn't already have a SS or MG 52mm 37mm Focal Length, crystal clear lens for comparison. It's kind of like seeing a MaxaBeam for the first time compared to any other HID (except Ra's & the MegaRay).

In photography, binoculars, telescopes, etc. it is well known that the quality of a lens has a huge impact on the results. I don't know why the same concept initially eluded me when I saw KD lens beam.

 

[kurni]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Actually it's kinda good; you get natural from cool white LED

Thanks LL; really good review.
Kurni

 

[LuxLuthor]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Actually it's kinda good; you get natural from cool white LED

Thanks LL; really good review.
Kurni

"Natural" ? I don't think I ever claimed these had natural colors. :green: It is just that I love the laser-like throw and defined edges. It is sort of like having a "Baby MaxaBeam" with sharp edges so you can control flood/spill from going into homes/cars while walking. I was more trying to discern betwen a quality, high transmissivity lens vs. the KD model.

If I had to choose between one of these aspherics and a nice incan hotwire, I would still go with the incan....but luckily, I don't have to choose only one!

Thanks for your notes Kurni, and others.

 

[tanasit]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Typical superb review Lux, my hat is off to you!:twothumbs


Karl

DITTO...

Many thanks,

Tanasit

 

[BentHeadTX]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Thanks Lux!
I am going to purchase two of those lens for $28 a pop. I love me KD, but really want the maximum throw for a friend of mine that needs it. Thanks again!

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Thanks, I've been wondering how they compare.
Now if only I could get myself a 75mm mag bezel assembly of the proper focal length. :devil:

 

[Gunner12]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

IIRC the KD drop-in runs at a 700 something mA to the LED, even though it has a approximately 30% increase in efficiency compare to the Cree XR-E P4, this might not be enough to offset the higher current to the P4 and a better lens.

Great review LuxLuthor!

 

[rizky_p]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

My KD Dropin was DOA, so i remove the driver and run an external driver to it. Now it happily run at 1.2A. Not sure if anyone got the same QC problem. It definately brighter than standard KD driver. If my memory serve me right, Jerry said around 750ma to the LED.

 

[Stereodude]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

The AR coating on the KD lens is probably partially to blame. Light that goes through an AR coating at any angle other than perpendicular will experience a color shift.

 

[Nanomiser]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Talk about comprehensive; great review Lux!

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[saabluster]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

Excellent work LuxLuthor. Are there any outdoor beamshots coming?

 

[LuxLuthor]

Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean

My KD Dropin was DOA, so i remove the driver and run an external driver to it. Now it happily run at 1.2A. Not sure if anyone got the same QC problem. It definately brighter than standard KD driver. If my memory serve me right, Jerry said around 750ma to the LED.

You got me worried, and just tested the other 4, and all five worked fine. From the testing on my power supply, it is not just a case of a fixed 750mA that is being delivered to the LED. Rather it is 3 Watts....so at 1.5V 2,000mA is delivered. At 2V--1,500mA; 3V--1,000mA; 4V--750mA

If you have another driver that outputs a regulated 1.2A at 4V (4.8 Watts), then it may be brighter....but not knowing squat about LED's, I don't know what the tradeoff curve looks like in terms of heat dissipation and this brand of LED's life.

I did two KD aspherics and I liked the fit better after I bored the bulb holder out to 15/32in. I was worried about breaking the negative contact tab off before that.

I consider their design as a perfect fit, and do not share your concern about the tab.

In the process of testing all 5, I did discover one that was EXTREMELY tight....to the point where I decided to sand down this stem...so I now retract my initial comment to LukeA. Apparently, there is QC issue where they are not double checking milling tolerances. My apologies, Luke.

In the process, I noticed that the center post screws into the larger heatsink ring as shown below.

Excellent work LuxLuthor. Are there any outdoor beamshots coming?

Outdoor beamshots? Well there are some linked in my first post that Nitro did. I'll see if I can get some more too.