18650 battery & charger recommendation?

[rainbowbright]

I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for an 18650 battery and charger. It doesn't have to be the best, but I do want to get a lot of battery and alot of charger without spending too much cash. I've also looked around at a few places and can't seem to find any decent chargers that will charge at least two 18650 batteries at the same time. Anyone ideas?

 

[Ray1968]

Try AW's stuff.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=180449

 

[Flashfirstask?later]

I would say the WF-139 multi-charger and AW batteries are the best option unless you willing to take a risk in the 2 for about same price of 1 AW. I say a risk because some of of those other cheaper brands can be a lottery in doa or not working properly on arrival or later on.

An example of the other batteries https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/204153

 

[mdocod]

Pila IBC charger and AW brand cells is going to be the the best solution that gives you the most charger and cells for the money. The WF-139 is a reasonable budget charger, but It's only worth it if you monitor it constantly or put it on a timer to prevent it from overcharging cells. the Pila IBC is faster and terminates the charge properly.

Eric

 

[rainbowbright]

Hi again. Thanks for the advice! Being new to the battery world, I've never ever heard of AW batteries. I only know of the big manufacturers that you can get at a grocery store, like Energizer or DuraCell. Don't any of the name-brand manufacturers make 18650 lithium batteries?

 

[mdocod]

Sanyo and Sony and Panisonic and LG all make 18650 cells, but they are not intended for sale to consumers as loose cells, they are bare li-ion cells that require external protection and proper charging methods employed to prevent fire/explosion. They can be found in consumer devices that have these things already built in, like in a laptop. You can buy many of those cells at various places online, and they are high quality cells, but the problem is that they do not contain a PCB to keep the cell "in check" so to speak. The use of unprotected cells is possible, but requires a lot of user involvement to keep the cells in check. There are many advanced users who do use unprotected cells, and probably plenty of people who shouldn't be. Often times people may salvage cells from old lap-top batteries.

AW, Pila, and Wolf-Eyes make protected cells intended for use in loose-cell (flashlight) applications. There are some other brands, like Ultrafire, Trustfire, SuperFire, Tenergy, Powerizer, and I'm sure there are more, overall the quality on those cells is not generally as good. They tend to have less consistent capacities and more frequent PCB failures. the AW cell has one of the most robust PCB designs and best shrink-wrappings in the industry.

Eric

 

[Flashfirstask?later]

Pila IBC charger and AW brand cells is going to be the the best solution that gives you the most charger and cells for the money. The WF-139 is a reasonable budget charger, but It's only worth it if you monitor it constantly or put it on a timer to prevent it from overcharging cells. the Pila IBC is faster and terminates the charge properly.

Eric

Hmm.. got a point there as the WF-139 is not one that you can just forget about as easily as you could with the Pila charger. I mentioned the WF-139 so to have a decent charger within budget.

 

[mdocod]

I use a WF-139, haven't wanted to shell out the ponies for the IBC yet.

The problem for me is, I will put cells on it in the evening, with the plan to pull them before I go to bed. After a few beers I sometimes forget. I'll then wakeup in the morning and it hits me- oh crap!.... running down the stairs to try to save my precious cells. Checking with a volt-meter, often finding them ~4.25+V, then immediately installing them in something to drain em down a bit.

It's kind of a hassle and I have no doubts that some of the signs of wear and tear on my cells is directly associated with the WF-139. Had I spend the extra $~20 or so and just got the IBC, my cells would be lasting longer and running healthier, in the long run, this would actually save money as you would replace your rechargeable cells less often.

Eric

 

[1 what]

My vote is for the Pila plus AW cells.
I recharge almost every night (leaving the charger on all night) and no problems..

 

[Ray1968]

I recently tested my WF-139 for overcharging with two new AW RCR123's. I put them on the charger and pulled both of them off when they turned green. They checked 4.14 and 4.18. I put them both back on the charger and let them sit for nine more hours. Pulled them off and they checked 4.16 and 4.17.

No idea why some of these will overcharge and some won't.

 

[Anders]

Hello Ray1968.

I also tested my WF-139, same results that you got.

One day it took way longer than usual to the charger to finish, I stopped it and measured 4,35Volt.
Now I use a hobby charger and the charging feels much safer.

It is common knowledge that mdocod always have the right answer so my vote is also AW:s + Pila IBC

Anders

 

[Phaserburn]

Pila IBC is the best I've seen outside of expensive "hobby" chargers in the 100+ range. Loading cells in and then having no worries regardless of cell type is what I like best. Tons of things to recommend it.

AW cells are generally highly regarded.

 

[prof student]

What about the AW cells & the AW charger(s) form the Fenix/7 store?

I am willing to shell out a few more $ for a charger/battery that you can drop in to charge, and walk away without having to time it all and not worries about it overcharging/frying the battery, etc...

Oh yeah, any links as to where to buy what y'all recomend would be great. Thanks.

 

[rainbowbright]

Pila IBC is the best I've seen outside of expensive "hobby" chargers in the 100+ range. Loading cells in and then having no worries regardless of cell type is what I like best. Tons of things to recommend it.

AW cells are generally highly regarded.

Would it be possible to charge CR123 batteries in a 18650 charger?

 

[lowatts]

I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for an 18650 battery and charger. It doesn't have to be the best, but I do want to get a lot of battery and alot of charger without spending too much cash. I've also looked around at a few places and can't seem to find any decent chargers that will charge at least two 18650 batteries at the same time. Anyone ideas?

AW's battery sales page has a link to some LiIon battery information. I'd strongly recommend reading up on how to use and handle these batteries; they need to be treated with respect. If you don't, you'll either kill them early, or they might "vent with flame."

 

[mdocod]

I recently tested my WF-139 for overcharging with two new AW RCR123's. I put them on the charger and pulled both of them off when they turned green. They checked 4.14 and 4.18. I put them both back on the charger and let them sit for nine more hours. Pulled them off and they checked 4.16 and 4.17.

No idea why some of these will overcharge and some won't.

That's what it does with my AW RCR123s as well... I've never been able to get a final chage voltage higher than about 4.18V (when the cells were new) on teh WF-139 on my RCR123s.. I have a theory that is rather loose.. but this has inspired me to run a test.. I'm currently charging my RCR123s up with a volt-meter attached, I'm going to monitor the charge voltage as it ramps up and see what's going on. Then maybe after I run em down some, I'll do the same test again, but try to rig it up to measure charging current and see if a CV stage even seems to be present at all.

Ideally a li-ion cell should be charged at around 0.5-1C until the voltage reaches 4.20V, at which point the charger should hold at 4.20V until the charge rate drops to ~0.1C...

Theory #1:
that the CV stage of the WF-139 is either non-existent, or set to trip off at say, something like 225mA, which would be an appropriate termination point for an 18650. The problem is that, it's reaching a "full charge voltage" on the little cells quickly in CC mode, but not holding a CV at 4.20V all the way down to the ~60mA it would need to to get RCR123s to hold at 4.20V. So it trips off into "green" mode prematurely on some small cells.

Theory #2:
The CC stage is actually set to terminate at something higher than 4.20V, with the hope that the cell will settle after charging to around 4.20V. The CV stage is basically non-existent. this type of charging is considered semi-reasonable provided it is designed for a tighter range of cell capacity. As long as the cell is only seeing higher than 4.20V for the short time that the charge is completing, most cells can handle this type of charge just fine.

Theory #3:
Assuming theory #2 is correct, and it is just ramping up to some target voltage above 4.20V. Perhaps the AW RCR123s have a lower over-volt limit set, and are tripping the charge off before it completes, causing the cell to then settle to ~4.16V, the light goes green, but since the cells are no where near the 4.20V "full" limit, the slow trickle rate would take a LONG time to ever get em there.


It's possible that aspects of all 3 theories are at play with the WF-139.

More thoughts on this later after I run some tests...


TESTING RESULTS: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205036

 

[Flashlight Aficionado]

Would it be possible to charge CR123 batteries in a 18650 charger?

Pila Charger Compendium

 

[mdocod]

rainbowbright,


CR123 cells are primary non-rechargeable cells that should never be charged by any charger.

As for 3.7V RCR123s, the Pila IBC will charge them, pretty fast too. RCR123s are the lowest capacity cell that should be used on an IBC. Will probably require some spacers (dummy cells) to make the connection as well.

Eric

 

[Flashlight Aficionado]

CR123 cells are primary non-rechargeable cells that should never be charged by any charger.

As for 3.7V RCR123s, the Pila IBC will charge them, pretty fast too.

Oops! I thought he said RCR123 not CR123. Thanks for catching that mdocod!