4SEVENS QUARK AA neutral white VS cool white

LEDAdd1ct

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Just be careful: R2 is only an efficiency bin, not a tint; there are different tints of R2, too! :D I know in this case it may be specified, but it may be helpful for others to bear in mind that there are cooler R2 LEDs and warmer R2 LEDs.

:)
 

jahxman

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Color rendition is not the only thing to consider. Neutral and warm white tints cut much better trough fog, rain, snow, smoke and dust in the air. In most conditions, neutral white LED's perform at least as good as their brighter cool white equivalents and often much better.

Absolutely. The other night I was casually testing some of my big lights outside; it was a very warm and humid night, and the cooler lights produced a lot more haze and backscatter off the tiny water droplets in the air. My M2XC4 Warm white cut through the haze much better than the other lights, and was better at spotting the shape and color of a deer that was about 120 yards out. Of course any of the lights worked fine showing eye flash off the various critters that were peering back at me from the bushes, wondering what the crazy human was up to with all that blinding light.
 

UnknownVT

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I am wondering what's the difference in brightness between those 2 versions : 10-15% or more ?

I have two reviews up that compared the Neutral White directly side-by-side with the Cool white version.

4Sevens Quark 123-2 Neutral, Tactical, Cool White Comparison Review

Neutral White (Warm Tinted) - Quark AA2 Neutral White Comparison Review

These are not quantitative as there are no measurements -
but qualitative/subjective - subjective by both me and the reader - I leave it for the reader to judge for themselves.

I have in both cases removed the color from my beamshots to show the actual luminance levels so that the brightness levels can be compared without the tints.

I'll just paste them here:

Quark AA2 - colors removed by desaturation -
Quark2AAW_Quark2AAdeSat.jpg
Quark2AAW_Quark2AA2UdeSat.jpg

it would appear that the regular cool white is just a bit brighter - but I certainly couldn't tell just eyeballing the beams even when side-by-side - so in practice it probably would not make much practical difference in the difference in brightness - BUT the tint difference may be important - see later.....

Quark 123-2 - colors removed by deSaturation -
Quark123-2Nw_cW2deSat.jpg
Quark123-2Nw_cW2U2deSat.jpg

with the color removed by desaturation - the regular cool white does seem a bit brighter.

However a possibly important point should be made - seeing better is not entirely dependent on brightness levels - but on how our eyes/brain perceive.

There are many who will attest that outdoors among woods etc - incandescent lighting seem to do lot better - this is not mere nostalgia - as we all know, on CPF at least, LED's have more than just overtaken incandescent flashlights, at least in the pocket-able lights.

But there is a very good physiological (as well as psychological) reason for this.

Our eyes/brain adjust to different lighting levels - through both evolution and conditioning human vision generally sees better in dimmer conditions with yellow biased lights - humans to survive had to be able to see well under lower light conditions like sunset/sunrise and at night lit by fire and candle light - which are all very yellow/amber.

For a more detailed and scientific explanation for all this please click on and read the Kruithof curve and The Color of White .

Hope that helps
 

EagleAg

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Just received a neutral white AA^2 quark myself. The tint is wonderful and the brightness definitely is there. I struggled with the same decision as you but I chose the neutral because of color rendition. Don't regret my choice at all.
 

Cataract

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Just received a neutral white AA^2 quark myself. The tint is wonderful and the brightness definitely is there. I struggled with the same decision as you but I chose the neutral because of color rendition. Don't regret my choice at all.

Same here, Ordered a Qaa neutral and an aa^2 body. I compared it, using 2 batteries, with my Fenix L2d and can't really tell the difference except I prefer the neutral much better... I think I need to spend more money on flashlights...:whistle:
 

UnknownVT

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Just posted this review -

Neutral White 4Sevens Quark AA Comparison Review

Here's the color removed by desaturation comparison between the neutral and cool white versions -

removed the colors by desaturation -
QuarkAAnW_CWdeSat.jpg
QuarkAAnW_CW2UdeSat.jpg

the levels are still "similar" with perhaps the cool white being brighter - which it should since it is an R2 as opposed to the Neutral white which is a Q3......
 

Owen

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Well, DaFABRICATA just put a Q3-5A in a E2DL for me. I don't know the bin of the stock emitter, but it was very bright. The Q3-5A is very noticeably dimmer. Not being new to having lights modded with neutral emitters(though at lower output levels), I was still surprised by how big the difference was.
I don't care, though, because the first time I shined it across my and my neighbors back yards, and at the treeline behind, I was A-OK with it:cool:
I actually bought the E2DL bezel with the intention of having the emitter swapped, and knowing it wouldn't be as bright.
 

Tekno_Cowboy

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Just be careful: R2 is only an efficiency bin, not a tint; there are different tints of R2, too! :D I know in this case it may be specified, but it may be helpful for others to bear in mind that there are cooler R2 LEDs and warmer R2 LEDs.

I've found the R2-WH emitters to be pretty nice. They aren't much better at rendering colors than the standard WC, but the tint is much less blue.
 

Beacon of Light

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If I'm a doctor, I'll buy the neutral white light to check on peoples skin. But i'm not a doctor so I like my light to be bright, that's why I like HID, my car have HID, my lights have cool white. When I used my light for walking, I don't want to know if the sidewalk is true color or not.

You get it, some people don't
 

Moonshadow

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I've found the R2-WH emitters to be pretty nice. They aren't much better at rendering colors than the standard WC, but the tint is much less blue.
Interesting point, Tekno. I think this illustrates just how subjective tints can be. To me, it's the WC that looks pure white, and the WH looks rather yellow in comparison. I am more and more convinced that there are genuine physiological differences in colour perception between individuals. I also think that you are right about the rendition: I have no problem whatsoever distinguishing between colours with the WC.

I can well understand how the warmer tints would be preferable to anyone who sees WC as blue, hence perhaps the enthusiasm for them (I dislike the purple beam of the E01 myself, for example). But by the same token, there are probably plenty of us who find that the cooler tints offer the best approximation to a crisp pure white.

Let's just hope the manufacturers continue to offer a choice, as 4sevens have done, so that everyone can have the light that's best for them.
 

Tekno_Cowboy

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... I also think that you are right about the rendition: I have no problem whatsoever distinguishing between colours with the WC.

I think it can be agreed upon that distinguishing between 2 different colors is pretty easy with either cool or white emitters. My problem with the WC is that I often can't tell the difference between similar colors, like navy blue and black.

I can well understand how the warmer tints would be preferable to anyone who sees WC as blue, hence perhaps the enthusiasm for them (I dislike the purple beam of the E01 myself, for example). But by the same token, there are probably plenty of us who find that the cooler tints offer the best approximation to a crisp pure white.

As much as I like the neutral tints, one point I can't argue is that white looks WHITE with a cool white led.

Let's just hope the manufacturers continue to offer a choice, as 4sevens have done, so that everyone can have the light that's best for them.

Great big +1 there :twothumbs
 

Rochefort

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Hi, I'm a little confused.
I want a neutral white Quark AA. Is there a tactical version with neutral white led and reversible clip? And do all the AA-versions take 14500?
 

UnknownVT

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I think this illustrates just how subjective tints can be. To me, it's the WC that looks pure white, and the WH looks rather yellow in comparison. I am more and more convinced that there are genuine physiological differences in colour perception between individuals.

Tints and how we perceive them is very subjective -
some like a blueish white others are less tolerant of it.

However although there are psychological reasons for this -
there are also well researched physiological reasons too.

I do a lot of direct side-by-side comparison beamshots - just to show differences in tints etc.
I use fixed daylight white balance to show up any deviation from the "ideal" of sun/daylight.

However I also understand that our eyes/brain combination are not like cameras/film - as they constantly adjust to lighting conditions.

A really good example is most people consider their normal household lighting to be "white" - yes, I did put that in quotes because most of us here on LED flashlights in CPF know that it is far from "white" - but that is how most of us (even the ones who do "know better") actually see things.

Normal incandescent or compact fluorescent lighting is very yellow as any photo taken with fixed daylight white balance will show - their color temperature is actually about 2,700 degK - compared to 5,500-6,500 degK of daylight........

Yet we persist in thinking household lighting is "white" - (or at least we do not normally see it quite as yellow as photos will show) - why is that?

Probably best to read this paper published by Western Association for Art Conservation and posted on Stanford University's web site -

The Color of White

this article is about critical viewing and lighting for exhibiting art paintings and color temperature.

All this is related to how humans see light - as in the Kruithof curve.

Both articles as well worth reading to understand both the physiological and psychological side of human vision and our perception of light quality.

Now the problem with flashlights is the illumination is not at a fixed brightness level - for example at a level of 20 foot-candles the WAAC paper above found that the optimal color temperature for lighting was 3,700 degK - we cannot guarantee that our flashlights will be illuminating whatever we are looking at to be precisely or even approximately 20 foot-candles.

It can range from ultra bright using the flashlight on full power and shining on something held in the other hand - or straining to see a distant object at night..... so the dynamic range can be very very wide.

To me (and I confess to currently being infatuated) neutral white LEDs - seem like a very good compromise of fitting the way we see at lower light levels (ala Kruithof curve) yet the spectrum contains enough blue to make the distinction between navy blue and black and seeing yellow on white....

FWIW - Cree's WC bin unfortunately can vary within the bin since its color temperature range is 6,300-7,000 degK - this is exactly as advertised a "cool white" which actually has a tendency toward blueish - when compared to 5,500-6,500 degK of typical daylight.

Cree binning chart -
Cool Whites (I borrowed this from this excellent thread -
Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Ostar by DFiorentino) -
creexlampcw_oe4.jpg

The typical WC bin is in the color temperature range of 6,300-7,000 degK - this is just too blue for daylight white balance in photography - most cameras are balanced for around 6,000 degK - the ideal range would be about 5,500-6,500 degK which is closer to a WD bin.

Here are some actual beamshot examples - all taken with fixed daylight white balance -

Neutral White vs. regular Cool White -
4Sevens Quark 123-2 Neutral, Tactical, Cool White Comparison Review
Quark123-2Nw_cW2.jpg
Quark123-2Nw_cW2U2.jpg

see how UN-white both lights are when compared side-by-side?
First the Neutral white (Q3 5A) definitely ain't white when taken with fixed daylight balance -
the regular cool white (bin WC) is actually a very blue sample -
but this slight exaggeration help illustrate the critical nature when we are talking about colors in photography - something our eyes/brain would probably adjust for, and find more than acceptable - all of a sudden gets revealed as a serious flaw when photographed.

OK how about nicer cool white tints?

Neutral White vs regular Cool Whitein Tactical version
Quark123-2Nw_Tact.jpg
Quark123-2Nw_Tact2U.jpg

again the Tactical cool white looks more blue because it is in direct comparison with a warmer Neutral white - but one can see that it is a little less blue than the regular cool white in the standard version - this is probably just variations within the same WC bin.......

Neutral White vs. Fenix P3D-RB100
Quark123-2Nw_P3Drb100.jpg
Quark123-2Nw_P3Drb100U2.jpg

this Fenix P3D-RB100 (using Philips LumiLEDs Luxeon Rebel LED) has one of my favorite tints for a regular cool white - but in comparison it still has a slight blueish tinge.....
 

Swedpat

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Next week I am waiting for as well a Quark AA2 neutral white and an EagleTac M2XC4 neutral white. I chosed the warmer tints because I know that they are more natural and comfortable for the eyes. Also it will perform better than the cool tint in the forest, though the total output is slightly lower.

Regards, Patric
 
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Darkspark

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While i actually enjoy the "cool" white tint on my Fenix P3D Q5, i will soon have three models of Quark with the neutral white led. This is because i am presently in the middle of deciding/taking on another battery format and should i decide to let one type or another go, i do not want to be caught without one of these neutrals because i like the tint so much. Makes me "want" to give another company some of my money to try their neutral offering...Nitecore, etc...
 

radu1976

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I have already ordered a warm tint TACTICAL AA QUARK !
I keep my fingers crossed.
Those days I got a MARATAC AA - similar to ITP C7 TACTICAL - , a very nice light but the tint - white - is not the best. Too white for outdoors...
 
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radu1976

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I have received the warm tint QUARK AA flashlight today.
Very nice tint, my first LED flashlight with an unusual tint...can't be more happy .
My warm tint LEDs apetite has opened.
BTW, mine is working without pb with a protected ULTRAFIRE 14500 :twothumbs.

I am not 100% happy with the flashlight as it's quite small for my hands and the clickie is quite stiff ! Also, the UI seems quite complicated.
But the tint worth the money :)
I am very impressed with the lowest mode...the moon mode . I haven't seen such a low level in a flashlight.
 
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Swedpat

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Hi radu1976,

I think the Quark Neutral white light will serve you well. And I also think your worry for the 20% lower output compared to the cool white version was unjustified. Know that a 20% decrease of brightness is hardly noticable for the eyes without a side-by-side comparison!
I hope you will enjoy your Quark neutral white as I do with mine! :)

Regards, Patric
 
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