7x6 H6054 Conversion Housings

[Ofelas]

Interesting.

My most recent Hella Vision Plus xxxxxxx291 headlamps (two pairs, late Oct/early Nov) came with GE branded Hungarian made 50480LU H4 bulbs.

Not sure what the difference between yours & mine are, but I assume they're all Tungsram made "+0" 55/60w bulbs.

I didn't even fire them up to test them - gave them to a buddy for spares, and installed GE/Tungsram Megalight +120s right from the git go.

compared to the GE, Made in Hungary 50440U E1 207 Hungary C bulbs provided with the hellas

 

[-Virgil-]

My most recent Hella Vision Plus xxxxxxx291 headlamps (two pairs, late Oct/early Nov) came with GE branded Hungarian made 50480LU H4 bulbs.

50480 is the Tungsram product code for a 12v 60/55w HB2. They're also type-approved as H4 bulbs, but the reverse is not true; the 50440 (product code for 12v 60/55w H4) is not also certified as HB2. The HB2 filament dimensional/placement specs are a bit tighter than H4, so any HB2 bulb also qualifies as H4, but not the other way around.

Tungsram tacks suffixes onto the end of the product code to delineate the different versions (long life, +120, etc), same like Osram and Philips do. "LU" = Long Life.

 

[Ofelas]

Ah, appreciate the info, Virgil, that'll make the old feller happy, as he detests changing bulbs, especially in winter.

Btw - is it safe to assume that long life bulbs in 1157/168 flavor also sacrifice output for longevity?

Lastly - are GE/Tungsram 50440SNU/XNU also certified as HB2/9003, rather than just H4s?

 

[-Virgil-]

Ah, appreciate the info, Virgil, that'll make the old feller happy, as he detests changing bulbs, especially in winter.

The long life comes at too high of a cost in terms of headlight performance, if you ask me.

Btw - is it safe to assume that long life bulbs in 1157/168 flavor also sacrifice output for longevity?

Not really enough to worry about (but 1157 and 168 aren't the top performers; you'd want 3496 and 2886X)

are GE/Tungsram 50440SNU/XNU also certified as HB2/9003, rather than just H4s?

No, 50440 is H4, not HB2.

 

[Ofelas]

Understood.

On this particular all-incandescent vehicle, it's 50440SNU and 2357NAs up front, 3652s on the sides, 168s on the cab clearance lamps, Stanley 3496s & 796s in the rear tail lamps (with 194s for the license plate lamps), and 194s for the tailgate clearance lamps.

No DRL-1 module, just the high beam filament driven at 50% voltage for factory DRLs.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

(with 194s for the license plate lamps), and 194s for the tailgate clearance lamps.

I'd probably use a 168 for the registration plate lamps, but I'd definitely use a 168 for the rear identification lamps just to get a bit more conspicuity.

 

[Ofelas]

Interestingly enough, I switched out all those 194s for 168s a few minutes back.

 

[Ofelas]

Question - Carello 5x7s - part # 92-2415 - touted as motorcycle headlamps, but labelled as "replaces all 200mm headlamps" - lenses are marked as SAE M80 and "651" - legit lamps for vehicle RHT in North America?

Comparisons with Hella SAE xxxxxx291 & Cibie ECE, as far as beam separation/glass durability/general pattern?

Thx

 

[-Virgil-]

Question - Carello 5x7s - part # 92-2415

That's no Carello part number. It looks like the part number applied by a motorcycle lighting remarketer such as Dorcy (a company that also sold cheap flashlights in the '70s-'80s).

touted as motorcycle headlamps, but labelled as "replaces all 200mm headlamps" - lenses are marked as SAE M80 and "651" - legit lamps for vehicle RHT in North America?

Yes, they're for RHT, but "SAE M" means they're motorcycle headlamps. The Carello motorcycle lamps (on the ones that have a bulb shield) have an extra arm extending rearward from the bulb shield. It's only anchored at the end attached to the bulb shield; it's not attached to the reflector end. It is placed so as to cast an extra shadow on the reflector and block light that would otherwise contribute to the low beam hot spot and upsweep. A crude and wasteful method of meeting a maximum-intensity limit in SAE J584, probably the (0.5U, 1R-3R) maximum of 2700 cd. This shadow-caster can be bent back and forth a few times until it breaks off the bulb shield, and removed.

Comparisons with Hella SAE xxxxxx291 & Cibie ECE, as far as beam separation/glass durability/general pattern?

Not radically different from the Cibie ECE beam distribution. The Carello lens is easier to break than the Hella, but the Carello seal boot is a good design -- assuming the seal boot comes with the lamp. These lamps haven't been made in a long time, so if you break one you're probably out of luck trying to find a replacement.

Doing a quick Google search, I see two things: (1) I was right with my Dorcy guess, and (2) LOFL at $150 for a single one of these lamps on Fleabay. Maybe that would be an OK price for a pair. I think if I really, truly wanted Carellos, I'd avoid the motorcycle lamps and hold out for the proper ECE car-truck lamps.

In the meantime, if I had decided it was going to be halogen lamps and not one of the better LED units on the market, I'd probably use the Hella SAE units, with good bulbs and careful aim.

 

[Ofelas]

Saved by the bell; thanks much.

Any appreciable difference between the SAE Hellas made in Germany & made in Romania?

 

[-Virgil-]

AFAIK there's practically no option to choose; Hella moved production of these old-tech lamps (stamped steel reflector glued to a glass lens) from a factory in Germany to a lower-volume factory in Romania. If there's any real difference I think it's apt to be very minor, certainly nothing like the big, noticeable quality difference that existed for awhile between Hella lamps made in Germany and Saturnus lamps made in Slovenia after Hella bought that company.

Or, to put it in fewer words, I don't think I'd hesitate to use the Romanian-made Hella product. Then again, I wouldn't consider this the final word, either. Maybe some deficiency will eventually show itself in the Romanian-built lamps? I don't think it's very likely, but...wait and see!

 

[Ofelas]

Noted; avoid Dorcy & Saturnus.

So, 72207 (Germany) vs 003427291 (Romania), sounds about correct as far as part #s go?

And if I have to feed my OCD further, what Bosch 200mm headlamp part #s should I be looking at, if at all, if they are close to Hella SAE/Cibie ECE units?

Thx...

Edit - the reason I ask is because I found a pair of NOS 722027 German made Hellas (stamped on the lenses), as well as a pair of NOS Bosch "H4. HCR E1 12,5 24512 R20. SAE M 78 DOT BOSCH E1 24512 R7. 1 305 620 281. The part# on the back sticker reads. BOSCH Germany 0 301 019 100 041 081 Lampe h4."

 

[-Virgil-]

Noted; avoid Dorcy & Saturnus.

I don't recall if there was ever a Saturnus-branded lamp in this size, I was just using that as a comparative to the "Germany or Romania?" question (or non-question).

So, 72207 (Germany) vs 003427291 (Romania), sounds about correct as far as part #s go?

Not really. 72207 is left over from a long-ago Hella USA parts numbering system. They phased out the 5-digit numbers roughly 20 years ago, maybe more than that...many years before the production of this lamp moved to Romania. They went through the effort and expense and agony of changing to longer numbers that weren't the same as the German/most of the world numbers, that lasted a few years, then they migrated to another system of different longer numbers that still weren't the same as the German/most of the world numbers, that lasted a few years, and now they have a system where the US part number consists of part of the German/world numbers. I have no idea why they do this idiotic dance every few years, somebody must be making money off it. Anyway, while all lamps merchandised as "72207" were made in Germany, there were also plenty of lamps made in Germany and merchandised as "003427291" (and as "E003427291", etc).

what Bosch 200mm headlamp part #s should I be looking at, if at all

The Bosch 200mm headlamps were discontinued quite a few years ago. Part numbers were 0301019100 (no position/"city"/"parking" light -- also sold in Canada by the pair as "SBQ 200") and 0301019101 (with position light). They were a better lamp than the Hella ECE unit, about on a par with the Cibie's performance. Bosch reflector and lens durability were better than Cibie.

the reason I ask is because I found a pair of NOS 722027 German made Hellas (stamped on the lenses)

"Found" like in the basement in good condition? By all means run 'em! But if "Found" means someone's making out like the German manufacture makes it superior to the current Romanian product, and wants a high price? Fuhgettaboutit.

as well as a pair of NOS Bosch

Same thing here. If "found" means you already own them and they're in good condition, go for it. Or if you found a pair for a good price. But if you found a pair priced unrealistically, pass.

(The Bosch large rectangular H4 lamps did not come in separate/different versions for motorcycles and non-motorcycles, hence the large amount of alphanumerics molded into the lenses)

 

[Ofelas]

Hi, great information above, saved me some angst.

The Bosch H4s we referenced above turned out to be in line with current bullion prices - so I passed.

I reckon I'll stick with my found NOS Hella 77207s...I seem to recall reading the bulb seals weren't quite up to snuff compared to the newer Hella seals, but hey.

I'll keep my eye open for the correct Bosch 9100s/9101s...or am I wrong in assuming that their lack of a bulb reflector (refractor?) would hold up better in a Cummins + rutted roads? Also - what bulbs do you suggest for the city lamps, and why exactly (in layman's terms are the reflectors better than the Cibies?

I'll swap the the Romanian made xxxxxx291s that I installed a little while back for the NOS 77207s...I hear the "made in germany" molded lettering on the bottom of the 77207 lenses allow for a more efficient TUV spec scatter containment? ;-)

Somewhere in one of my barns are a pristine pair of 200mm Bobis...though I cant imagine (if memory serves) they'd be nicer than the Romanian SAE Hellas.

Thanks again - I do enjoy making NOS lamps into "barely used OEM" based on your recommendations.

 

[-Virgil-]

I'll keep my eye open for the correct Bosch 9100s/9101s...or am I wrong in assuming that their lack of a bulb reflector (refractor?) would hold up better in a Cummins + rutted roads?

There is no such thing as a "bulb reflector" (other than the one behind the bulb, which is just called the reflector) or a "bulb refractor". I'm guessing you are actually talking about the absence or presence of a bulb shield. Well-made lamps with bulb shields have well-made bulb shields that won't break/fail even on rutted roads in a diesel vehicle.

Also - what bulbs do you suggest for the city lamps

It depends on which headlamp we're talking about, because there are a few different types of bulbs used in front position lights built into headlamps ("city light" is more of a fanboy type of term, which is why I keep putting it in quotes like that).

why exactly (in layman's terms are the reflectors better than the Cibies?

Durability, in a word; Bosch reflectors tended to have a more durable jacket coating. The reflectors on the French brands (Cibie, Marchal etc) were a little more fragile/less durable. There aren't requirements in the UN/Euro regs for reflector corrosion resistance, durability, etc, so those decisions were left up to industry.

 

[Ofelas]

Yes, the thingummy behind (or the contraption in front of the bulb towards the headlamp lens).

Bulb shield. Holds their integrity with a deezul on rutted roads. Noted. I'm assuming Hellas have well made bulb shields.

Never meant to sound like a "fanboy". Asking specifically about the Bosch xxx9101 front position lamps.

OK - so Bosch reflectors are kinda akin to Hella SAE reflectors? I'm not even going to dare to ask about Hella German vs Romanian defectors...

And I won't even get into the French. Or their fragility.

 

[-Virgil-]

Yes, the thingummy behind (or the contraption in front of the bulb towards the headlamp lens).
Bulb shield. Holds their integrity with a deezul on rutted roads. Noted. I'm assuming Hellas have well made bulb shields.

Yup, generally so. Haven't seen any of them break.

Never meant to sound like a "fanboy".

Whups, I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you one; I was reacting to the "city light" term.

Asking specifically about the Bosch xxx9101 front position lamps.

They have a BA9s socket, so you can use a T4W (25 lumens) or a 3886X (85 lumens).

OK - so Bosch reflectors are kinda akin to Hella SAE reflectors?

Yeah, I'd call 'em more or less comparable.

I'm not even going to dare to ask about Hella German vs Romanian defectors...

I still don't think there's much to favor one over the other.

And I won't even get into the French. Or their fragility.

Ha, that might get us banned for political discussion!

 

[Ofelas]

Yup, generally so. Haven't seen any of them break.

Good to hear

Whups, I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you one; I was reacting to the "city light" term.

No worries; at least you didn't say "fanboi"

They have a BA9s socket, so you can use a T4W (25 lumens) or a 3886X (85 lumens).

Sounds good

Yeah, I'd call 'em more or less comparable.



I still don't think there's much to favor one over the other.

And Stern further addled my brain yesterday evening with more Carello, Koito & Lucas H4s



Ha, that might get us banned for political discussion!

Oh dear. French made headlamps with their relatively fragile lenses, naturally.

 

[Ofelas]

Another query -

H4 lamps, 5x7 flavor - aside from BOBI, Hella Vision Plus & GE/NH, any other decent ones have the mechanical aimer studs on the lenses?

 

[-Virgil-]

The GE/NH moved off the list of good options awhile back; there are no longer any good sealed beams on the market.

The Truck-Lite US-spec LEDs have the aim pads on the lens, last time I checked.

(Is there some reason you want them specifically, or you're just curious?)